Converting vinyl to digital

I think the main difference in the iLP and their other products is the built in docking station for idevices. All of their USB products can rip and dump to a PC. You can use the Audacity software with most any USB turntable.
 
rbmrtn said:
I think the main difference in the iLP and their other products is the built in docking station for idevices. All of their USB products can rip and dump to a PC. You can use the Audacity software with most any USB turntable.

Can you purchase, say a Sony Walkman MP3, and download your songs from your ITunes into it, without having to have an IPod?
 
Can you purchase, say a Sony Walkman MP3, and download your songs from your ITunes into it, without having to have an IPod?
If you have a computer and can download songs from the computer to the walkman then the answer is yes, as any usb turntable should be able to record to the computer. Plus of course any cd's you have can be ripped to the computer as well.
 
I stumbled across this old thread...

I am not an audiophile, and my record collection wouldn't be considered mint in condition. But, I have noticed the digital songs I have downloaded from iTunes, to have a far superior sound to my album conversions. I don't have any snaps or pops from the lp song conversions, however, the sound doesn't appear to be as "full" as the digital downloads.

This might be the reason:

I just set up my ION iLP vinyl converter. This one converts to iTunes. It is a $65 purchase. ... Concerning the ION, if you are wanting high quality, find something else. This thing can not be made any cheaper and still work. You should get a look at the "needle". It is so cheap it fooled me, I didn't even think the needle was on it!. ...

At $65 for turntable, cartridge, tonearm, preamp and analog-to-digital converter, and make a profit, that must be some serious compromise!

My LP conversions sound fantastic. I'm not using anything exorbitant, just my old original 1970's era low-mid-end Pioneer belt drive turntable (had to get a new belt), with a good cartridge (I got a good deal on a Shure V15), and a ADC with built-in phono preamp that cost me ~ $80.

This is all fairly low-end stuff, nothing 'high-end' at all (except for the cartridge, which might have been fairly expensive, I can't recall, but I think very good cartridges can be had for ~ $80). But each stage of this system - turntable, cartridge, preamp/analog-to-digital converter was a bit more than the $65 you spent total. Yes, I think $65 would have been cutting corners in ways that would be clearly audible.

Going above what I invested would probably provide only marginal improvements, probably noticeable to only a few 'golden ears' under ideal conditions, but I would expect a very sharp improvement for the $ going from a $65 system to something ~3x the cost. At $65 you are pretty much at the hairy edge of getting something that barely functions - sound quality takes a very, very low priority in the marketing decision for something like that.

-ERD50
 
rehashing this specifically:
I don't have any snaps or pops from the lp song conversions, however, the sound doesn't appear to be as "full" as the digital downloads.

Hmmm, did you use some software to remove 'clicks and pops'? I've tried the freeware versions, and by the time I got the settings aggressive enough to clean up the music, it also sucked the life out of the music.

I go in with Audacity, and edit noticeable clicks/pops with their 'repair' tool, which is tedious - you need to find the tiny segment of noise, select it with a drag, and hit repair. It will only act on very short segments of sound, so it does not affect the surrounding music.

-ERD50
 
Would any of you comment on just how useful you have found the conversion process? I converted a handful of LPs a couple of years back and found it easy enough to get good quality but the time commitment was immense. When I looked at the 800+ LPs I had, I decided it was just easier to keep my turntable and listen to the LPs when I wanted to hear them.

I've converted about 75% of my CD collection to mp3, but I've even begun to wonder about the ROI for that process. With 25 days worth of music in mp3 format, I'm not sure that there is much benefit to raising this total to 60 or so.
 
Would any of you comment on just how useful you have found the conversion process? I converted a handful of LPs a couple of years back and found it easy enough to get good quality but the time commitment was immense. When I looked at the 800+ LPs I had, I decided it was just easier to keep my turntable and listen to the LPs when I wanted to hear them.

I also find converting LPs to be extremely tedious and time consuming. I don't think I'll live long enough to convert 800 LPs! You've got to prep everything, check for levels, split and name the tracks, and then I go nuts editing the pops/clicks (once I get past the intro/outro, there isn't much to do - the music is generally louder than the pops). I'm only converting unique stuff that I can't find on CD.

I was leaning towards just listening on the turntable, I figure I'm not going to wear them out at this stage of my life. But it is the convenience/flexibility of having them in digital format that motivates me. I love just throwing them in a playlist, or picking/choosing with a few clicks. And I make a backup EZ.

I've converted about 75% of my CD collection to mp3, but I've even begun to wonder about the ROI for that process. With 25 days worth of music in mp3 format, I'm not sure that there is much benefit to raising this total to 60 or so.

I convert to FLAC, an open-source lossless format (full bit-for-bit CD quality). Not only do I want the highest quality available to me, but that gives me the flexibility to create a compressed copy for a portable player, without going through two stages of compression, which multiplies artifacts. And I can make that compressed file to any q-level that I want for that occasion.

I'm not sure what you mean with the 25 days versus 60 days? Maybe that is the limit of your portable player? As I mention above, I convert to FLAC (1/2 the file size of CD, but no loss, it's like 'zipping' a file), and store those on a portable hard drive. An inexpensive 500GB drive ($60?) will store almost 2000 CDs in FLAC format.

-ERD50
 
rehashing this specifically:





Hmmm, did you use some software to remove 'clicks and pops'? I've tried the freeware versions, and by the time I got the settings aggressive enough to clean up the music, it also sucked the life out of the music.



I go in with Audacity, and edit noticeable clicks/pops with their 'repair' tool, which is tedious - you need to find the tiny segment of noise, select it with a drag, and hit repair. It will only act on very short segments of sound, so it does not affect the surrounding music.



-ERD50


ERD, I didn't use any software. I just think the whole thing was so cheap it wasn't good enough to even pick up those sounds! I do have one more album I want to convert, but that is it. Like you mentioned it is just too time consuming. If I had to do it over, I would have bought a better converter, but at the time I didn't know what I was doing.


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In the most complete guide that I am aware of to Digital Music (The Ultimate Digital Music Guide: The Best Way To Store, Organize, and Play Digital Music) is a Chapter (Page 317) that goes into great detail on "Ripping Vinyl Discs and Analog Tapes to Digital." ("Detail" meaning equipment, formats, etc.)

However, the Author adds emphatically that:

... The point is that if you're a vinyl collector, you probably have some titles in your collection that are not available today, and therefore worth your while to rip and add to your digital music library. It is not so much that digital is a replacement for vinyl but rather it lets you listen to your hidden gems along with the rest of your modern music tracks.

There is the additional question, of course, of whether there's value in digitizing vinyl albums that are also available on CD or available for digital download. If you're a die-hard vinyl devotee, you might think that the supposed warmth and fidelity of the vinyl release would trump the CD release, and thus justify ripping your vinyl to digital. But that's a fool's argument; if a commercial CD can't reproduce the warmth of the original, then neither can your homemade rip. ...
 
My conversion strategy for LP's is to buy the mp3 version. I have the stuff to do a real conversion, if my turntable still works, but it does seem like a lot of time to set everything up and run through it real time.
 
... I'm only converting unique stuff that I can't find on CD.
... But it is the convenience/flexibility of having them in digital format that motivates me. I love just throwing them in a playlist, or picking/choosing with a few clicks. And I make a backup EZ.

I'm not sure what you mean with the 25 days versus 60 days? ...

-ERD50

These snippets are what I want to hear more about. First, the 25 days. I simply mean that if I press play on iTunes, it will be 25 days before my library starts playing again from the beginning. If my entire collection were digitized this would be a 60+ day interval. The currently digitized collection already gives me ample selection for shuffle and preparing playlists for special occasions (rarely).

Very few of my LPs are available on CD and I am not sure why the availability on CD is relevant. I'm not sure I see any advantage in having a particular item duplicated on LP and CD.

I think I get the playlist thing, but if I really want to LISTEN to a single piece, it is not likely that I'm going to place it in a playlist.

My collection is probably 90% classical, could this be part of the reason I struggle with understanding the advantages of digital? It's one thing to make a one hour playlist of 25 or so "songs". But if I'm going to listen for an hour, I'm looking at 1-5 works. It just seems much easier to pick out the LP and place it on the turntable than to create a playlist.

Not being argumentative, this is one of those areas where I really want to believe that there are advantages that I haven't identified, but I just haven't been able to see them.
 
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I've only converted some stuff that hasn't been re-released on CD or mp3.
 
Recognizing, of course, that MP3 (MPEG-1 Audio Layer III) is the least "true-to-original" format. Therefore it comes down to the Bitrate used to convert the original to a MP3 file:

128Kbpb - Soft attacks, slightly compressed sound. Similar to normal FM radio but still sub-CD quality.

192Kbps - Sounds similar to the original, but with less presence and somewhat restricted dynamic range.

256Kbps - Quality is getting closer to that of the original, but still has a slightly compressed sound.

320Kbps - Approaching CD-quality, but not quite there. This is the highest bitrate possible with the current MP3 standard.
On the other hand, MPS does have the advantage of being the most universal -- very few playback devices cannot play a MP3 file.
 
rehashing this specifically:


Hmmm, did you use some software to remove 'clicks and pops'? I've tried the freeware versions, and by the time I got the settings aggressive enough to clean up the music, it also sucked the life out of the music.

I go in with Audacity, and edit noticeable clicks/pops with their 'repair' tool, which is tedious - you need to find the tiny segment of noise, select it with a drag, and hit repair. It will only act on very short segments of sound, so it does not affect the surrounding music.

-ERD50
Apologies for butting in, but to provide a counterpoint to this conversation, I am considering digitizing some of my vinyl collection. Most of the music I already have in digital form, but my reason for wanting to do this is actually because I was so intimately familiar with all the clicks and pops on my records that, for me, those sounds became an integral part of the way I experienced the recording. In other words, I'd like to be able to listen to my old record collection with all the surface noise, pops and clicks. If I want to hear it without the noise, I'll listen to it on CD.
 
I also find converting LPs to be extremely tedious and time consuming. I don't think I'll live long enough to convert 800 LPs! You've got to prep everything, check for levels, split and name the tracks, and then I go nuts editing the pops/clicks (once I get past the intro/outro, there isn't much to do - the music is generally louder than the pops). I'm only converting unique stuff that I can't find on CD.


-ERD50
As I digitized my lp collection I decided to not break the tracks up but leave them as side 1 side 2 etc. This is how I at least listened to them in the past. Since mine are almost all classical, I kept the selections intact.
Since the turntable here had the tone arm stuck in the up postion, as the hydralic lifter froze there, I bought a Sony USB Turntable. You just plug it into the usb port on the windows 7 or greater machine, load audacity, and off you go. I did run the pops and clicks filter in audacity but since the lp experience included pops and clicks did not get agressive about it.
One has to also amplify the recording in audacity, as it comes off the turntable at about -18 db, and I raise it to -6. There were a few lps that the turntable got stuck on however.
 
My collection is probably 90% classical, could this be part of the reason I struggle with understanding the advantages of digital? It's one thing to make a one hour playlist of 25 or so "songs". But if I'm going to listen for an hour, I'm looking at 1-5 works. It just seems much easier to pick out the LP and place it on the turntable than to create a playlist.
.

Turntables with multiple disc capacities have vanished from the market, so one advantage is one can set up a series of disks to play. Also one does not have to flip the lp to hear the other side. Because they are lps i did them as side 1 side 2 since that is how you listened to lps in the past.
Once done I can put the LPs into deep storage.
 
Turntables with multiple disc capacities have vanished from the market, so one advantage is one can set up a series of disks to play. Also one does not have to flip the lp to hear the other side. Because they are lps i did them as side 1 side 2 since that is how you listened to lps in the past.
Once done I can put the LPs into deep storage.

The few LPs I converted I also left as side 1/side 2. This does make more sense to me. Perhaps I'll try a couple more and see if I change my mind. It would be nice to have at least a few of the old favorites available at my desk instead of only in the music room.
 
Wow, this got re-active in a hurry!

In the most complete guide that I am aware of to Digital Music (The Ultimate Digital Music Guide: The Best Way To Store, Organize, and Play Digital Music) is a Chapter (Page 317) that goes into great detail on "Ripping Vinyl Discs and Analog Tapes to Digital." ("Detail" meaning equipment, formats, etc.)

However, the Author adds emphatically that:

There is the additional question, of course, of whether there's value in digitizing vinyl albums that are also available on CD or available for digital download. If you're a die-hard vinyl devotee, you might think that the supposed warmth and fidelity of the vinyl release would trump the CD release, and thus justify ripping your vinyl to digital. But that's a fool's argument; if a commercial CD can't reproduce the warmth of the original, then neither can your homemade rip. ...

Not sure I 100% agree, or that it's important, but ... I can see the argument that the LP adds 'warmth' to the playback. So going to a CD made directly from the master tapes would skip this step. Think of the LP/stylus/cartridge as a post-processor. That's not why I convert LPs, but to each their own.

There's another effect that I've heard about. Sometimes (often?), the engineer is doing a 're-mastering' for CD. You can end up with a different sound, depending on how much artistic licence the engineer decided to apply. I can't think of titles offhand, but I recall hearing that some CDs had mixes with the drums brought way forward from the LP, etc.

These snippets are what I want to hear more about. First, the 25 days. I simply mean that if I press play on iTunes, it will be 25 days before my library starts playing again from the beginning. If my entire collection were digitized this would be a 60+ day interval. ....

OK, now I follow you. Sure, if you already have plenty of music already in digital format, there might not be any advantage to you to add more. Only you can decide that.


I think I get the playlist thing, but if I really want to LISTEN to a single piece, it is not likely that I'm going to place it in a playlist.

My collection is probably 90% classical, could this be part of the reason I struggle with understanding the advantages of digital? ...

Not being argumentative, this is one of those areas where I really want to believe that there are advantages that I haven't identified, but I just haven't been able to see them.

No, I don't think you are missing anything. I threw the term 'playlist' out there, but I actually don't use them all that much. I have several 'smart playlists' for Christmas music, so I can pick instrumental versus vocal, 'sacred' versus 'jaunty' versus 'mellow' versus neither. I use tags for all that, and the playlist allows logic so I can do any combination - like 'contains CMAS AND contains jaunty AND contains instrumental' or 'contains CMAS AND DOES NOT contain instrumental AND DOES NOT contain Sacred' etc. and I have playlists for a few different occasions, 'mother-in-law' music, and a few other 'background' playlists of varying 'intensities'.

But I really don't use playlists all that often, I generally pick out an album to play, just as you would for Classical. So it's really just a convenience thing - I find a few keystrokes easier than digging through the LP collection and loading up the turntable, etc. Or if I get bored or change my mind, a few keystrokes to bring up a different album. Some people have no problem with that 'inconvenience' (or actually enjoy the 'experience').

... On the other hand, MP3 does have the advantage of being the most universal -- very few playback devices cannot play a MP3 file.

True, but either they are far and few between, or I've made sure they support FLAC and ogg before I buy them. But that's why my original conversion is always FLAC lossless - I can convert to whatever I need w/o generational losses.

Apologies for butting in, but to provide a counterpoint to this conversation, I am considering digitizing some of my vinyl collection. Most of the music I already have in digital form, but my reason for wanting to do this is actually because I was so intimately familiar with all the clicks and pops on my records that, for me, those sounds became an integral part of the way I experienced the recording. In other words, I'd like to be able to listen to my old record collection with all the surface noise, pops and clicks. If I want to hear it without the noise, I'll listen to it on CD.

DW would talk about how she likes the clicky sounds from an LP. OK, it sounds really weird on one hand, but I kind of get it. I had some cassette tapes I made of albums many years ago, to preserve the album. And one in particular had the tape rolling as the LP ended, and I can hear my much younger self brushing the dust off the stylus. It would always take me back to the day I made that recording.

But mostly, the clicks interfere with my enjoyment of the music, so out they go!


As I digitized my lp collection I decided to not break the tracks up but leave them as side 1 side 2 etc. This is how I at least listened to them in the past. Since mine are almost all classical, I kept the selections intact. ...

The few LPs I converted I also left as side 1/side 2. This does make more sense to me. Perhaps I'll try a couple more and see if I change my mind. It would be nice to have at least a few of the old favorites available at my desk instead of only in the music room.

I've been breaking them up for flexibility, but almost always listen to an album straight through, so I see your point. If there was, for example, one tune/track that also would stand out on its own, you could always make a copy of that one track on its own, then you also have the flexibility for that track, w/o the work of breaking up the whole LP.

-ERD50
 
But that's why my original conversion is always FLAC lossless - I can convert to whatever I need w/o generational losses.
-ERD50

I, also, use FLAC nowadays. Way back when, I ripped everything to WAV format. OGG is, of course, a lossy conversion that I never considered.

In truth, however, I don't do much of this anymore anyway. I have way too many audio files... if I played them one at a time in a continuous stream, I would not live long enough to hear them all.

(And don't get me started on video.)
 
I am going to convert some of my cassette tapes and LPs to digital. The first step is to get the cabling right from my stereo receiver to the computer sound input. I am thinking of using this software:
Audio/Video Recorder, Editor, Converter. Capture streaming video and audio.

I highly recommend the following open source, free, cross platform (Win, Mac, Linux) software:

Audacity: Free Audio Editor and Recorder

It is very well supported, has an active forum for help, tips, etc, and is super flexible, and pretty easy to use. I've used it to digitize both cassettes and LPs. Heck, I even used it to record a message on my answering machine.

-ERD50
 
I have used TotalRecorder for probably well over a decade. Not for converting music from old media, but just for recording 'whatever' from my PC; it kind of steamed me that I couldn't record stuff that I could hear coming from my speakers (until this software, which hooks right into the sound drivers).

As to the strategy of piping analog audio into your computer and digitizing there, eh, not a big fan of that.

What I've found, and YMMV, the back of a computer is a noisy place, rf-wise, and I'm not sure you'd get in without some nastiness. You'd probably end-up with at least some 60 cycle hum. You could have ground loop issues too.

If I were you, if most of what I wanted was LP's, I'd buy a USB turntable, but I doubt you can buy a USB cassette drive. Cassettes are horrific from a S:N ratio anyway, so wiring that up with TotalRecorder probably wouldn't make much difference.

Actually, if I were you, I'd do what I did...I just went on an IRC channel and downloaded the albums I wanted...someone else digitized them for me! I only downloaded the ones I owned LPs for, so didn't feel bad...everyone got paid back when I bought the LP's in the first place.
 
I have used TotalRecorder for probably well over a decade. Not for converting music from old media, but just for recording 'whatever' from my PC; it kind of steamed me that I couldn't record stuff that I could hear coming from my speakers (until this software, which hooks right into the sound drivers). ...

Audacity also let's you record any direct 'stream' in the computer itself. I've used that a bunch of times.

As to the strategy of piping analog audio into your computer and digitizing there, eh, not a big fan of that.

What I've found, and YMMV, the back of a computer is a noisy place, rf-wise, and I'm not sure you'd get in without some nastiness. You'd probably end-up with at least some 60 cycle hum. You could have ground loop issues too.

I'd suggest trying it, it might be fine, or 'good enough'. It's free and convenient, so if it works, why not? The YMMV is key there.


If I were you, if most of what I wanted was LP's, I'd buy a USB turntable, but I doubt you can buy a USB cassette drive.

I would not do that. I would get a standalone ADC (Analog to Digital Converter. Here's what I use - it includes a phono pre-amp, so it can be used with a turntable as well. If you really never envision using the phono input, there might be cheaper ones out there, but I know this to be a very high quality unit (and probably overkill, but it's not like $80 is extreme).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BBGCCI?*Version*=1&*entries*=0

And even if you do want to do LPs, the typical USB turntables are trash. Any modest turntable with a modest cartridge will likely be far better - you just need the external converter, like I linked above. What do you know, I found someone who agrees with me on the Internet! ;)

USB turntables: The worst-ever audio product? - CNET


Actually, if I were you, I'd do what I did...I just went on an IRC channel and downloaded the albums I wanted...someone else digitized them for me! I only downloaded the ones I owned LPs for, so didn't feel bad...everyone got paid back when I bought the LP's in the first place.

That would be a lot more convenient. I'd be concerned about being tagged as a thief though (even though I agree it really isn't a moral dilemma for me if I own the original - but tell that to the judge).

-ERD50
 
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I borrowed a friend's Denon turntable to experiment with the conversion and came to the conclusion that I will just stick with the LPs and my old Dual turntable. The Denon worked well enough but it is a tedious and time consuming task. The only problem was a bit of hiss that I assume came from the Denon's DA converter. It was not there when just running analog cables to my stereo.
 

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