Where to live & crime

[ItDontMeanAThing]

I enjoy living in Hua Hin, Thailand. I'd like to know what else might interest me more, so I'm researching towns in other countries. Crime was mentioned often for some, both as precautions and reassurances. Violent crime was rare everyplace I've lived. Now it's a concern for some of the next possible places. I have some conclusions and am interested in knowing the views of others.

These six precautions (in italics) came from a website promoting a town where the authors live. The town doesn't matter, it's the nature of the precautions. I've condensed and paraphrased their content, followed by my comment.

1. Learn the local language and make friends with neighbors.

Of course.

2. ATM Safety

Never use ATMS on street, instead use banks and ATMs in malls.

Inconvenient, but no big deal.

3. Defense against pickpockets and snatch & grab.

In public, don't wear expensive jewelry, or use expensive electronics, including smart phones. Keep you cheapo phone tucked away safely between uses.

Carry money and cards in a hidden (inside your pants) wallet.

We are cautious if someone approaches us on the street asking for something. He may be the distraction while a thief gets busy.

These could become an acceptable routine part of life.

4. Prepare for burglary

We have tried to rent houses equipped with security measures such as burglar bars and alarm systems. We hide valuables, such as computers.

A pain in the a$$. The advantages of living somewhere would have to far outweigh the problems.

5. Prepare to be robbed

We prefer to stay indoors at night for the most part, just to be on the safe side.

In the town center during the day, we watch for anyone following us.

Malls ATMs are good because one easily get lost in a store for a while after taking out money.

Carry "mug money" in a separate wallet.

Nope, too much impact on quality of life.

If I was younger, dealing with #5 items would be acceptable if living there was overwhelmingly great. Now, at my age and physicality, they're out of the question because I'd be one of the easy targets.

The deal breaker is in #3, don't carry expensive electronics. If I can't carry a camera almost everywhere, I don't want to live there.

 

[savory]

Those were the exact restrictions we lived with in S. Africa. In our 2 years, we were never robbed or lost anything but we were involved in a couple of crime incidents. I think we were more lucky vs. smart. It was never a problem to hear people who had been crime victims and/or those who expressed their perceived risk of crime at a level that was much higher than the crime rate. It is important to recognize that this was an urban area. When I moved from the burbs to the city, finding neighbors who were crime victims or crime events near by was easy. In terms of S. Africa, I could tell you about tons of incredibly positive experiences where people went way out of their way to help me and be kind. The good things far outweighed the bad.

 

[robnplunder]

If you are FI, why would you live in a place where 1 - 5 are rampant? I grew up in such place and the only ones who are safe from 1 - 5 are those who have nothing(therefore, have nothing to lose).If you must live in such place, eventually, you will run into one or more of these incidents. Law of average triumphs luck over time.

1. Learn the local language and make friends with neighbors.
2. ATM Safety
3. Defense against pickpockets and snatch & grab.
4. Prepare for burglary
5. Prepare to be robbed

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

If you are FI, why would you live in a place where 1 - 5 are rampant? I grew up in such place and the only ones who are safe from 1 - 5 are those who have nothing(therefore, have nothing to lose).If you must live in such place, eventually, you will run into one or more of these incidents. Law of average triumphs luck over time.

1. Learn the local language and make friends with neighbors.
2. ATM Safety
3. Defense against pickpockets and snatch & grab.
4. Prepare for burglary
5. Prepare to be robbed

My FI allows me to live in one of the rich nations (assuming they'd have me) at a standard of living I haven't seen since grad school, including no health insurance. Living in an emerging economy means I can live more like a prince. When I first started considering ER it was always in the context of living in another country for the adventure of it.

The reasons for living where 3 & 4 are prevalent would be the positives sufficiently outweighed the negatives. Besides, 3 & 4 are day to day precautions most places I've traveled in the last 5 years. I never bring anything on a trip that I can't afford to lose, so I see 3 & 4 as part of the trip cost. I wouldn't travel where #5 is necessary.

As for #1, I've made friends with the neighbors everywhere I've lived. It has nothing to do with security. Also have done #2, avoiding ATMs on the street when the physical layout and presence of others deemed it wise. That's just common sense.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

...
In terms of S. Africa, I could tell you about tons of incredibly positive experiences where people went way out of their way to help me and be kind. The good things far outweighed the bad.

And the good people far outnumber the bad. If I wasn't into photography and being robbed was like a random tax with a tiny probability of being injured or killed, I can see living in such a place if the good far outweighed the bad, though I'd keep my roots shallow.

 

[kcowan]

Consider a backpack with strong straps. That enables you to hide good camera gear. As well as other stuff. Also dress like the locals. Local gringos dress differently than tourists.

 

[tulak]

Consider a backpack with strong straps. That enables you to hide good camera gear. As well as other stuff. Also dress like the locals. Local gringos dress differently than tourists.

+1

This reminds me when we were visiting our home country in Europe. We were in a tourist zone chatting with one of the vendors in the local language. He insisted we weren't from there, while my wife was having fun saying we live in our ex home city, about 200km away.

He was a bit puzzled at first, but then he deduced that we must live somewhere else and are only visiting. What gave us away was our appearance.

 

[haha]

+1

This reminds me when we were visiting our home country in Europe. We were in a tourist zone chatting with one of the vendors in the local language. He insisted we weren't from there, while my wife was having fun saying we live in our ex home city, about 200km away.

He was a bit puzzled at first, but then he deduced that we must live somewhere else and are only visiting. What gave us away was our appearance.

Can you put you finger on the differences?

I ask because my woman friend who is US born, but lived a long time in Europe visited her former Euro home recently for a month or so, and although she claimed to be American, taxi drivers and others insisted that she was local- not to their own city, but usually one city on down the road. Her appearance was local, but accent while local to the larger area, not quite the same as their own home city.

Ha

 

[unclemick]

Portland, Seattle, Denver, New Orleans - after those the oversea's cities should be a piece of cake.

We're in training to visit a cousin in New York city this summer.

heh heh heh - learning the local language might be diificult but I heard it's similar to the 9th ward in New Orleans.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

Consider a backpack with strong straps. That enables you to hide good camera gear. As well as other stuff. Also dress like the locals. Local gringos dress differently than tourists.

Using the gear is the problem, not hiding it. If I wanted to hide it, I'd leave it at home. Also I wouldn't wear on my back a billboard, visible from 50m, announcing I'm a tourist.

 

[Nemo2]

Using the gear is the problem, not hiding it. If I wanted to hide it, I'd leave it at home. Also I wouldn't wear on my back a billboard, visible from 50m, announcing I'm a tourist.

When we were in the Czech Republic last year, the tourists were the ones who weren't lugging backpacks around.

 

[tulak]

Can you put you finger on the differences?

I ask because my woman friend who is US born, but lived a long time in Europe visited her former Euro home recently for a month or so, and although she claimed to be American, taxi drivers and others insisted that she was local- not to their own city, but usually one city on down the road. Her appearance was local, but accent while local to the larger area, not quite the same as their own home city.

Ha

Clothing and location. The clothing that we have in the US is different than what's available locally, not to mention how/what is worn. This was also a tourist zone, so the person we were talking with is used to dealing with tourists and able to pick out the differences. And admittedly, we did look slightly like tourists, or at least people that were on vacation. Most locals aren't wandering around taking it easy, especially in tourist zone.

In thinking about this more, I think it would be harder for locals to detect we don't live there in non-touristy areas. If they pay attention, then yes, they could probably say that were not from the local city. But then they could easily assume that we are from the big city just visiting, not from another country.

It's impressive that your women friend was able to pull off being a local, having only lived in Europe. Maybe they were trying to flatter her?

I was talking to a co-worker of mine who's Indian. I'd love to visit India at some point and I asked him how it is for non-native travelers, especially since we prefer not to do the tour group and explore on our own. We determined that the problem is that you really can't blend in. For him, it's easy, since even that he doesn't live there, he still blends in when he comes back. He doesn't look like a potential target, or at least he can avoid looking like a target. Put me in that environment and I'd stick out like a sore thumb. There are ways to mitigate this - don't be flashy, etc, but for those that are looking to take advantage, they can easily spot you. The only real way I see to mitigate this risk is to be a less attractive target then the next guy.

 

[MRG]

I was in the UK working with a bunch of US ex-pats. The one guy didn't understand why the folks playing music in the subway broke into 'I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy' when he walked by. I just looked at him and laughed. Later I explained he was dressed like he was on the cover of US clothing catalog.
MRG

 

[kcowan]

When we were in the Czech Republic last year, the tourists were the ones who weren't lugging backpacks around.

They also had cameras hanging from their necks and wore T-shirts that advertised something. We see them here in Mexico.

What you want to do is discourage the opportunists. You will not have a problem with taking your camera out at a photo-op and then being followed by someone who will steal your backpack. They will try to grab stuff on the way by. This includes iPads that you might use to read a book on the beach. Get a Kindle. They are not in demand for quick resale.

 

[crtreedude]

Not sure about everywhere, but here in Costa Rica, crime depends a lot in where you live. The Central Valley and the tourist areas have a lot more crime. Just over the hill from us is Lake Arenal, and they talk a lot about crime there, whereas, we are just 14 kilometers away, and see virtually none.

Where there is a lot of money being flashed around, and a big difference between the locals and those who are perceived was transient, you can figure on an increase in crime, both the illegal kind, and the kind that is legal, but still unfair (gouging on prices, etc)

 

[samclem]

A consistent source of amazement to me is the "localized" nature of property crime in the US. We typically have areas of low income and high crime (generally urban areas) not more than 20 miles from wealthy areas with low property crime rates. Why do burglars bother breaking in to Section 8 housing units to steal 20 year old stereo when they could drive less than 30 minutes and score real jewelry, modern electronics, etc? And they probably have a lower chance of getting shot. Is it that they'd look out of place and thus more likely to get caught? That there are many more police in the good neighborhoods? They don't want to commute? It just seems the payoff would be so much better that it would be worth taking a bit more risk.

To the OP: I'd look for an affordable place with low crime. High crime areas are more than a risk to your property and safety: in my experience, they are areas where people are less likely to interact in a friendly way. Where any stranger might be a threat, people avoid eye contact and casual greetings (they don't want to invite the interaction that leads to trouble). This "walling off" probably leads to more crime as people tend to know less about their neighbors, don't get involved when there is disorderly/suspicious activity, etc. They just aren't good places to live, and people who have a choice and want to enjoy their neighborhoods have already fled. That leaves a bunch of potential victims and victimizers.

There are still places where living costs are low and crime is low, places where the social networks are intact and crime is just not accepted by the vast majority of people, and they will not tolerate it. In the US, these tend to be rural places--it costs very little to live in some of these spots, people know their neighbors (who may be some distance away), and they routinely leave their doors unlocked without concern.

 

[Nodak]

Interesting item on CNN today:
The best states to retire in are a little surprising - May. 5, 2014

I will admit to being a little biased

 

[Fermion]

Interesting item on CNN today:
The best states to retire in are a little surprising - May. 5, 2014

I will admit to being a little biased

Those states have low crime rates because nobody can get to your house through the 12 feet of snow in your driveway.

I have a hard time imagining living in North Dakota at age 75 in the winter. I know people do it, but not me.