Snowden OMG Moment During Interview

[M Paquette]

Snowden aside, I immediately thought of what Hoover accomplished, too, with limited technology. Eventually some of this data will be used for political purposes, if it isn't being used already.

Exactly. Abuse of the database has already happened. Google LOVEINT, the NSA's internal name for folks using the databases to spy on love interests.

Bloomberg report: NSA employees have deliberately "abused" their power.

Declassified files detail blatant violations, abuse of NSA domestic spying program ? RT USA

NSA Surveillance Documents Released By Officials Show Misuse Of Domestic Spying Program

They're also building profiles on individuals which can be used for reputation attacks. Could be handy for election campaigns.

Top-Secret Document Reveals NSA Spied On Porn Habits As Part Of Plan To Discredit 'Radicalizers'

NSA SEXINT is the Abuse You’ve All Been Waiting For | Just Security

Of course, nobody HERE is in a group that could ever make them a person of interest, right? I'm sure that nobody in the government would ever target members of specific organizations or groups.

 

[Texas Proud]

Based on publicly available info on the security breach, there were clearly problems with data security procedures in some areas. I'm pretty sure heads are rolling.

Some will probably recall that after 9/11, the intelligence community was roundly beaten for failing to "connect the dots" to provide warning of the plot. Maybe a CIA analyst didn't see an FBI report or the FAA records of flight training of a person who had overstayed his visa. Now, in the real world these patterns are clearly identifiable in retrospect and almost impossible to discern without benefit of hindsight, but there were many news reports about data stovepipes and the need for more sharing between analysts and agencies. As we can all probably see, more sharing means more people have access to more information that isn't in their "normal" area, and somebody with ill intent could steal more information. Snowden's violation of his oath and the trust that was placed in him will likely build some new walls, make the work of many people much harder, and put the "dots" farther apart. We'll all pay for his 15 minutes of fame.

The interesting point here is that looking back, then determined they already had enough data on the people that carried out 9/11... collecting more data would not have changed anything....


Also, there are very few terrorist attacks in other developed countries that are not doing this invasive data collection.... I doubt that there are many terrorist attacks that have been stopped BECAUSE of this data... I am sure there have been some plots stopped, but the reporting indicates there was some other method that law enforcement used to stop it...


Finally, the chance of someone dying due to a terrorist attack is almost zero... even if you add up all that have died over the last 30 years, it barely is a couple of months of people who die in car accidents... that includes the only big number from 9/11...


We all live in a violent society.... there is nothing that can be done to prevent this kind of violence... just like the airport screening has been show to be of little value, I think this is of little value... so we give up a lot of our rights to feel safe.... but we are not any safer... don't get me started on the dollar cost of this....

 

[samclem]

They're also building profiles on individuals which can be used for reputation attacks. Could be handy for election campaigns.

Top-Secret Document Reveals NSA Spied On Porn Habits As Part Of Plan To Discredit 'Radicalizers'

Again, according to the available reports, (including those cited) all the traditional protections for US persons remain in place. If there is an abuse, then it should be followed with punishment (as they have been in the past).

I think it's a good policy to decrease the influence of foreign terrorist leaders, to show them to be hypocrites and reduce their ability to recruit suicide bombers to kill our citizens. The safeguards in place protect US persons (and that's a category that goes beyond US citizens).

 

[samclem]

The interesting point here is that looking back, then determined they already had enough data on the people that carried out 9/11... collecting more data would not have changed anything....

The data was spread all over and, as I said, made a pattern only in retrospect. As far as "more data would not have made a difference"--clearly that's wrong. For example: If the "more data" was a conversation between Bad Guy 1 and his leaders in another country about next month's plan for 19 named people to buy tickets on several airlines and fly the planes into the WTC, the Pentagon, etc, it is clear that this "more data" would have been pretty useful in putting all the pieces together. Right? Collecting (and analyzing) more data might have made all the difference.

As far as number of attacks prevented, etc: Obviously, this is a hard one to know, and very few people are even in a position to have the information and none of them are blabbing about it. But this is about more than preventing individual attacks--it is also about capturing or killing some very bad people who want to kill you and me. I've seen credible reports in the papers that indicate some of these people have been apprehended or killed. Maybe that's just due to random traffic stops. But whatever is causing it, I hope it continues. We can't win an ideological/cultural campaign by this means, and sometimes it might even be counterproductive to other needed steps. But sometimes it is a tool in the toolbox that needs to be used.

 

[48Fire]

You watched the interview and concluded that he was idiot? I can see how people could conclude he is a traitor, but an idiot... He seemed like smart articulate man to me.

Actually did not watch the interview, so I am only making that comment based on the fact that I don't like what he did.

 

[Gumby]

I think we've all said what we have to say, and no one is changing his or her mind, so let's just call it a day.