LTC advice

[World Traveler]

I'm looking into Genworth and transamerica plans. Does anybody have any experience with those plans? Is $5100 annually good for 4 yrs each $6000 monthly for my wife(53)and I(51)? Too much? Self insure?


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[samclem]

Is $5100 annually good for 4 yrs each $6000 monthly for my wife(53)and I(51)? Too much?

Much depends on the inflation "protection" that is included.
The tool at this web page allows you to see what LTCI through the Federal LTC program costs for a policy similar to the ones you're looking at. You might expect to pay more or less, but it should give you a point of reference. NB: All the federal LTCI policies are individual policies, there are no shared benefits for couples, etc.

Another thing: In your situation (a couple shopping for LTCI), some couples would look to economize by buying just 2.5 years each of shared coverage. The first person into LTC would have up to 5 years of coverage, which is long enough to meet the Medicaid lookback provisions. The second person (if they needed LTC) would have any unused LTCI benefits and expect to have all the couple's savings, SS, a house, etc to cover LTC expenses.

 

[World Traveler]

These policies we are looking at are shared. Based on what you have stated 3yr might be the sweet spot. Stats LTC for male 2.3 male and 3.5 female. Thanks for the website, I will have to play around with the coverages.


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[brewer12345]

I would not touch Genworth with your ten foot pole.

 

[World Traveler]

Reasons?


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[brewer12345]

Reasons?


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There is a very good chance they may not survive long enough to pay your claim.

 

[Sarah in SC]

There is a very good chance they may not survive long enough to pay your claim.

+1.

 

[Independent]

Has anybody cross shopped with Northwestern Mutual Life?

My recollection from 10 years ago was that they have always been more expensive than everybody else, but as others have raised their premiums, the gap has narrowed.

I like "Mutual" in this case. Maybe Brewer can say something about financial stability.

 

[brewer12345]

Has anybody cross shopped with Northwestern Mutual Life?

My recollection from 10 years ago was that they have always been more expensive than everybody else, but as others have raised their premiums, the gap has narrowed.

I like "Mutual" in this case. Maybe Brewer can say something about financial stability.

NWM is one of a mere handful that I consider to be the very top shelf in credit quality. I would not hesitate to buy a policy from them if the price and coverage fit the bill.

 

[World Traveler]

+1.

Thanks. How about Transamerica?



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[World Traveler]

Has anybody cross shopped with Northwestern Mutual Life?



My recollection from 10 years ago was that they have always been more expensive than everybody else, but as others have raised their premiums, the gap has narrowed.



I like "Mutual" in this case. Maybe Brewer can say something about financial stability.

Thanks for the gen advice. What others are top shelf?


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[brewer12345]

Thanks. How about Transamerica?



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Put it this way: after the nuclear bombs go off it will be the cockroaches and the top tier guys like NWM still around. Transamerica might or might not survive, but most other nasty shocks (repeat of the Sapinish flu pandemic, our recent financial crisis, etc.) would be something they could handle. Genworth might die after catching a cold.

I tend to be unwilling to accept carrier credit risk for long term products (life insurance, LTD, LTC, etc.), so I would look for a credit profile like Transamerica's at a minimum and would be happier with someone like NWM or TIAA-CREF. Other people have different preferences.

 

[brewer12345]

Thanks for the gen advice. What others are top shelf?


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Most do not sell LTC any more, but for the record: NWM, MassMutual, NY Life, Guardian, TIAA-CREF, Thrivent, USAA. There are a few smaller guys out there with solid credit profiles, but those are the big boys in most markets.

 

[mathjak107]

does your state have partnership plans ? they generally are far better deals .

here in ny with a partnership plan all we need is 3 years coverage and the perks afterward are worth more then the insurance is .

we get bills paid by a special version of medicaid , total asset protection with no asset shifting , no income limitations on the stay at home spouse like you have with medicaid .

with regular insurance like your 4 year policy you still have a 5 year look back , have to use irrevocable trusts cutting each other off from full use of assets as well as still have income restrictions if you need medicaid .

 

[mathjak107]

These policies we are looking at are shared. Based on what you have stated 3yr might be the sweet spot. Stats LTC for male 2.3 male and 3.5 female. Thanks for the website, I will have to play around with the coverages.


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the problem with playing stats is You don't know which side of the stat you are on .stats matter to insurers but with out us knowing who is on the wrong side of the stat as humans we only have two outcomes . you are on the side not needing it or you are on the side needing it . which one are you ?

planning whether retirement planning or insurance planning is always based on worst case scenario . 3 years coverage still leaves you with a two year gap if you intend to shift assets . but they already increased the look back from 3 to 5 years . they could make it seven or more .


years ago when we were featured in money magazine the one area we disagreed was self insuring ltc . we were thinking of self insuring . there were so many reasons we never thought about as to why that was a bad idea that it reversed our thinking totally .


i went from the biggest opponent to buying ltc coverage to realizing just how important it can be to have and not just for the few years coverage either.

 

[big-papa]

Most do not sell LTC any more, but for the record: NWM, MassMutual, NY Life, Guardian, TIAA-CREF, Thrivent, USAA. There are a few smaller guys out there with solid credit profiles, but those are the big boys in most markets.

We're with NY Life - they're still selling LTC, but perhaps not in every state.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I would trust Brewer's analysis implicitly. He's the analyst, and I respect his opinions on these companies. As for me, this is on periphery to my piece of the industry.


Oh and PS, Brewer, my young Russian co-worker just passed level 3. Over the moon!!! I knew she was smarter than me, now I can prove it!

 

[World Traveler]

does your state have partnership plans ? they generally are far better deals .



here in ny with a partnership plan all we need is 3 years coverage and the perks afterward are worth more then the insurance is .



we get bills paid by a special version of medicaid , total asset protection with no asset shifting , no income limitations on the stay at home spouse like you have with medicaid .



with regular insurance like your 4 year policy you still have a 5 year look back , have to use irrevocable trusts cutting each other off from full use of assets as well as still have income restrictions if you need medicaid .

Can you elaborate what a partnership plan is? I live in TX. Thanks


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[big-papa]

Can you elaborate what a partnership plan is? I live in TX. Thanks


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We live in TX, too. Here's a good page for Texans: Long-Term Care Resource Page

Big-Papa

 

[mathjak107]

Can you elaborate what a partnership plan is? I live in TX. Thanks


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it is a partnership agreement between you , your state and an insurer .

the state agrees to certain terms and to allow either all or some of your assets to not be subject to a look back period and need no asset shifting to irrevocable trusts so medicaid can resume paying your bills ..

some states like ny do not restrict the spouses income who stays at home like they do when you normally go on medicaid .

it is great you protected a million dollars in assets but now try drawing it to live on . medicaid will take every thing above around 3k a month in our state from the stay at home spouse .

so living in queens in nyc where we do that feature is a huge plus .


each state likely has a plan but they vary as to the perks after the insurance runs out .

 

[brewer12345]

Oh and PS, Brewer, my young Russian co-worker just passed level 3. Over the moon!!! I knew she was smarter than me, now I can prove it!

Congrats to her! That is a huge accomplishment and no doubt a relief.

 

[hnzw_rui]

Much depends on the inflation "protection" that is included.
The tool at this web page allows you to see what LTCI through the Federal LTC program costs for a policy similar to the ones you're looking at. You might expect to pay more or less, but it should give you a point of reference. coverage.

Those plans, I'd actually consider getting. Does anyone else offer an "unlimited" plan?

 

[samclem]

3 years coverage still leaves you with a two year gap if you intend to shift assets . but they already increased the look back from 3 to 5 years

But they've got a "shared coverage" policy, so they have enough time to get the first person through the lookback zone. That's a big deal for many couples. This technique is still not without risk (increase of the lookback period, both people needing LTC at once, etc), but it covers a big portion of the present "hole".

 

[brewer12345]

Those plans, I'd actually consider getting. Does anyone else offer an "unlimited" plan?

When I last discussed this with industry players a couple years ago, there was really nobody left commercially offering unlimited LTC. Too many got their heads handed to them with this product and now they concentrate on 3 and 5 year plans.

 

[samclem]

Those plans, I'd actually consider getting. Does anyone else offer an "unlimited" plan?

Not that I know of, and I wouldn't be surprised if that is no longer an option for new policies the next time they revise this program. The "unlimited" time period is a great offering, and does what many people expect insurance to do--cover them for an unanticipated catastrophic event. States ought to be pushing to at least have these "unlimited time period" plans offered, as a means to keep people off Medicaid. The ACA removed caps on health insurance, but they remain prevalent in LTCI.