Honda 2kW inverter-type portable generator

[Walt34]

I bought this Honda EX4500 after four days without electricity in 1999 when we were living in MD. We could get by with it because the house had natural gas heat, stove, and water heater. I read a lot about the need for load shedding, turning off stuff so as not to overload the generator. Even with this one at 4k watts continuous, if DW was using the coffeemaker and hair dryer at the same time everything else except maybe a couple small light bulbs had to be off. The cabinet is lined in foam and it has what looks like a small car muffler on it. Very quiet.

And my father was a power company lineman for a time so yes I did have a transfer switch!

DW was chiding me a bit about spending the money on it (~$2,500 I think) until one February day she came home from work just after dark. I asked "Did you notice anything unusual?"

"No."

"Did you notice that we're the only house on the block that has any lights on? And that the furnace is running?"

Then her light bulb came on.

I drained ALL the fuel from it, carburetor bowl included, and keep it in the basement with a battery maintainer on the battery. It is electric start only, no cord, which I wish it did have for a backup.

The only time we've used it since moving to WV is when her father's power was off. But I just KNOW that if I sell it we'll have a power failure the next day.

 

[NW-Bound]

In the 40 years I have lived in Phoenix, I never had power outage for more than an hour or two, and the times that it happened could be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Else, I would find a way to plug my home to my RV. Its 4kW Onan genset is nowhere as quiet as the Honda generator, but certainly more quiet than the "contractor grade" genset that one can buy for a few hundred bucks. And as it feeds off the 55-gal tank of the RV it can run for quite a while.

 

[travelover]

.........."Did you notice that we're the only house on the block that has any lights on? And that the furnace is running?"........

When I bought mine 25 years ago, home generators were rare. I felt guilty when after a several day outage, I was sitting inside, warm, with my Christmas lights blinking, and I saw my neighbors carrying water from the creek to flush their toilets.

Since then, just about everyone on the street has had an automatic generator installed - except me.

 

[Olbidness]

I've got a Honda 2000 generator and I love it. Best tip is to get a spare fuel cap, modify it to accept a fuel line and connect a plastic 6 gallon boat gas tank. The run time in eco mode is great. Always run the fuel empty, and drain the carb. There is a screw on the carb bowl and 1 or 2 turns ccw and it will drain the bowl. I had to clean the jet on the carb last fall, not hard, but kinda of a PITA.

 

[eytonxav]

Back in the 1980s living in the Northeast, we lost power for about 5 days during and after a big snow storm. Since I didn't want to go through an event like that again, bought a large Honda generator which I kept in the garage, and wired it to a transfer box on the other end of the house which was enough to power our boiler, refrigerator, water pump, and some lights. Also, added a Lopi wood burning stove. We were cozy after that during power failures.

 

[Car-Guy]

We get more than our share of power failures here. I don't keep count, but I'm sure we get 5 or 6 a year that last from 2 to 4 hours each on the average. Longest in the past few years was about 24 hours. Lot's of "power flickers" too. So many flickers, that I put UPS's on things like the big TV, DVD player, Direct TV receiver, computers, Internet connections, etc. Most everything else has surge protectors.

I have two 8550/5500 generators but have only needed one at a time. When in use, the generator(s) sit about 50 feet away from the back of the house on an open air porch that extends from my barn and feeds the house through separate under ground power cables to separate electrical outlets. (I wanted to keep all my backup wiring 100% separate from my primary wiring)

When the power goes out, it takes me less than 10 minutes to have everything I want connected and up and running on the backup generator(s). Since I can't run my central air on these generators, I keep a separate 10k BTU 110vac AC window unit for summer outages. (It get's hot here in Texas during the summer)

A good friend on mine down the road has a very similar setup and it's worked well for both of us.

Glad this post came up, it reminds me, it's time for my annual generator oil change.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes, I think if you live out in the country that having backup power is critical... the utilities prioritize who get power back first... hospitals and other critical buildings... then businesses and then where the most population lives...

Back when our electricity was cut during Ike, we were out for about a week... but there was one guy who lived on a street with 5 houses that was out for two weeks... he was the last one to get it where I worked...

But, it is rare for us to lose electricity for any extended time and when we do it is usually a short time... maybe 4 to 8 hours... not enough time for me to worry and buy something.... Sure, we get the blips every now and then which is why I have UPS on some things, but not enough time for those to even get the gen set out....

 

[travelover]

..........Glad this post came up, it reminds me, it's time for my annual generator oil change.

By far, the biggest problem with generators is that they sit around with old gas in them and gas with ethanol in it, is even worse. Then when the lights go out they won't start or won't run properly. It helps to run the carburetor dry but some carburetors have gaskets that dry out and shrink and cause additional problems. The easiest solution is to add a gasoline stabilizer like this: Robot Check

 

[Car-Guy]

By far, the biggest problem with generators is that they sit around with old gas in them and gas with ethanol in it, is even worse. Then when the lights go out they won't start or won't run properly. It helps to run the carburetor dry but some carburetors have gaskets that dry out and shrink and cause additional problems. The easiest solution is to add a gasoline stabilizer like this: Robot Check

For many people, that's probably true but I run mine often enough that's not a problem for us. Even as often as I run mine, I still use Sta-Bil with each re-fill since "sometimes" it might sit a few months between starts.

 

[Car-Guy]

Yes, I think if you live out in the country that having backup power is critical... the utilities prioritize who get power back first... hospitals and other critical buildings... then businesses and then where the most population lives...

Plus I suspect there is a lot more redundancy built in the power systems in the cities. Based on how often we lose power, we must be near the last on the list for restorations.

Back when our electricity was cut during Ike, we were out for about a week...

We were in Houston for IKE too. We only were out for about a day but the folks "just across the street" were out for almost 2 weeks. Some folks were running extension cords across some residential the streets for a few hours each day. Not safe to do.

Sure, we get the blips every now and then which is why I have UPS on some things, but not enough time for those to even get the gen set out....

UPS's have been some of my best (useful) investments. I replace them every 4 to 5 years but even then, it's been useful and cheap insurance for me.

 

[travelover]

For many people, that's probably true but I run mine often enough that's not a problem for us. Even as often as I run mine, I still use Sta-Bil with each re-fill since "sometimes" it might sit a few months between starts.

Right, my comment was for the general audience that might not realize that gas goes bad and causes all kinds of problems.

 

[samclem]

The Yamaha 2KW inverter generators also get good reviews. They are very well made, as quiet as the Hondas, and usually cost less than the Honda 2KW units. They have two advantages according to those who have reviewed them both-the engine has a head that can be taken off for easy cleaning of the combustion chamber (the Honda doesn't--the cylinder is integral with the head) and Yamaha has a valve on the gas line that allows it to be easily run dry (to get the fuel out of the carb). The Honda doesn't have this separate fuel shutoff valve--when you turn off the engine both the ignition and fuel valve are turned off at the same time, so you have to manually drain the carb bowl before storage. One more thing to forget . . .

http://www.amazon.com/STA-BIL-22240...54258065&sr=8-10&keywords=gasoline+stabilizer

 

[MRG]

Right, my comment was for the general audience that might not realize that gas goes bad and causes all kinds of problems.

Sure does. I start and run it dry twice yearly. Refill with gas and Stabil.

In February 2002 we were in a all electric home and lost power for two weeks from an ice storm. We had a wood stove that kept it almost 60°. More fun was DW had a salt water aquarium with a bunch of expensive corals and fish. She managed to lose nothing during the outage. Lot of hard work and a little dumb luck.

 

[travelover]

The Yamaha 2KW inverter generators also get good reviews. ......

Yamaha also makes a slightly larger inverter generator with an innovative feature - it uses the starter battery to provide a temporary boost via the inverter to start large loads. If not for starting loads, a lot of us could get along with a 1000 watt generator.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yamaha also makes a slightly larger inverter generator with an innovative feature - it uses the starter battery to provide a temporary boost via the inverter to start large loads. If not for starting loads, a lot of us could get along with a 1000 watt generator.

Link did not work for me...

 

[samclem]

Link did not work for me...

FWIW, it worked fine for me (Windows 7, Firefox). The URL is:
https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/outdoor/models/inverter-ef3000iseb

That's a nice item. MSRP of $2500 for a generator that can surge to 3500W briefly, then put out up to 2800 watts for an extended period. That would be pretty handy.
...................................Start..............................Run
Fridge.......................1200W..........................200W
10K window AC........2200W.........................1500W
1/3 HP furnace fan...1400W..........................700W

Approx run and starting wattages for various items: Honda Generators - Wattage estimation guide

It would be nice if they made a cheaper, smaller unit that had a pull-start and hooked up to a vehicle battery for the surge capability. Lots of small trailers/truck campers could use something like that.

 

[NW-Bound]

How about an arrangement like this?

Use a beefy inverter that runs off a couple of batteries, then use a smaller generator to charge the batteries.

The problem is of course that big inverters are expensive if you want the pure sine wave type. Also, you would need a good smart, efficient, and powerful charger the type they use in newer RVs, not the chintzy chargers you get at Walmart or auto stores. I would also go with a 24V inverter instead of the common 12V type, to lower the current drawn, permitting smaller gauge cables.

An advantage of this is that you have continuous power for lighting and the fridge if you want to shut down the generator for the night, or for maintenance. Drawbacks include costs, and also higher maintenance due to the batteries.

 

[travelover]

It is common knowledge that you can parallel two inverter generators and they will synchronize. I saw a YouTube video (which can't find now) where a guy paralleled his Honda generator with a 12 volt sine wave inverter. It seems that the Honda generators have the ability to do their own phase synchronization.

I know you are shaking your head - I'll keep looking for it.

EDIT: OK, here it is:

This is the inverter: http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWa...276169&sr=8-1&keywords=xantrex+prowatt+sw2000

 

[NW-Bound]

Lemme help you out here.

You sent the link to me a while back, and I had not known that it was possible. However, the inverter this guy used was a pure sine wave, not a modified sine wave type.

Note carefully that the powering up sequence is important. You start up the battery-fed inverter, plug in the Honda 2000i generator, then pull-start the generator.

I don't know what prompted this guy to do this experiment to see if it would work. I would be extremely wary of ruining either the generator or the inverter.

By the way, my pure sine-wave inverter was blown up due to a failure in my homebrew transfer switch in the RV, which shorted the inverter against shore power. It took me quite a bit of work to buy replacement transistors from Digikey to repair the inverter. The story of how my transfer switch failed and the hassle of repairing the inverter must be saved for another time.

PS. OK, I now see that you also found it.

 

[travelover]

Lemme help you out here.

You sent the link to me a while back, and I had not known that it was possible. However, the inverter this guy used was a pure sine wave, not a modified sine wave type.

Yea sorry, I forgot that we had discussed this before and I was mistaken about the pure vs modified sine inverter. Getting old...

I think the salient point is that it is possible to couple an inverter generator with a battery operated inverter which would allow one to use a lot smaller generator, having the surge covered by the battery. A clever guy could design an interface box so the generator would not connect unless the inverter was energized.

 

[NW-Bound]

I have to watch the video again to see if he plugged in the generator as it was running. I thought he plugged it in cold, then pull-started it.

There was a fancy inverter/charger for RVs that automatically draws from the battery to supplement the external power when the latter is "weak", then reverses the flow to recharge the battery when the load is reduced. It's expensive however, with the cost in the few $K.

 

[travelover]

I have to watch the video again to see if he plugged in the generator as it was running. I thought he plugged it in cold, then pull-started it.

There was a fancy inverter/charger for RVs that automatically draws from the battery to supplement the external power when the latter is "weak", then reverses the flow to recharge the battery when the load is reduced. It's expensive however, with the cost in the few $K.

Right - Victron and Xantrax both make inverters that automatically synchronize to a generator or even shore power, but they are about $4K-ish. Like any engineer, I like to see a low cost, efficient solution. And no, I wouldn't plug my $1200 Honda generator into an inverter to see what happens.

 

[NW-Bound]

Often, my low-cost solution turns out to be a kludge that costs me much time, if not money. But then, how else does a guy have fun?

But I also draw a stop at plugging things in randomly to see what happens. Did a bit of that when I was in my early teens, but not since.

 

[travelover]

..........
But I also draw a stop at plugging things in randomly to see what happens. Did a bit of that when I was in my early teens, but not since.

I started as a toddler with a hairpin and an outlet.

 

[Telly]

Thanks for all the comments! I think I made a good choice, it is always nice to get the comments and owner tips of our knowledgeable folks here.

I have only one unit, so just thinking here -- I'm a bit mystified how they circuit-wise synch two inverters together. This is a floating-output generator, so even though the user outlet connections are Neutral and Hot, there is no which-is-which in reality, unless you ground the "Neutral" yourself (Neutral Bonding). So the generator's inverter output acts like a floating secondary of a transformer. In the owners manual, there is a schematic, and it shows the connection points for the two paralleling cables as being one side of the output for one cable, and the other paralleling cable connects to the other side output, but upstream from the internal circuit breaker. And the parallel kit cables conduct user power, too.

So... the output of one inverter is connected in parallel with the second inverter. And there is no assigned Master or Slave. Each must be looking at it's own output (which is paralleled with the other unit), and somehow adjusting its phase (and frequency to be spot-on). It seems like a chicken-or-egg scenario. And it has to keep working as one gen is turned off or runs out of gas, is refueled, and restarted. Did not see anything about special precautions when shutting off/restarting one of the paralleled units.

Oil Filler -- the oil filler cap is recessed, and down low. You fill till it just about overflows. I'll need to get a thin-tube funnel to make an easier job of it, one with a curve in the tube. I've seen after-market oil fill extenders, that screw in onto the threads where the filler cap goes, and raise it up and out. Then just a regular funnel could be used. But it would seem that may still have a problem, as I don't think one could accurately judge the oil level trying to look down a tubular extender. Or maybe it's easier than I imagine. The extenders are not cheap!