Cholesterol and diet - You there haha?

[tmm99]

I finally found an old thread started by haha that I was looking for. Here is the link.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f38/ldl-c-ldl-particle-count-diet-and-statins-62589.html

I wanted to revisit this thread since my cholesterol has been creeping up a bit. I am now thinking of eating less beef and less diary.

I wonder if you would like to give an update? (I thought of PM'ing you, but I thought other people here may be interested in adding to the discussion )

Have you been eating more chicken? Does dark meat work as well or you are adhering to white meat? Still eating a lot of fish?

 

[mpeirce]

You might want to read at Dr. Kendrick's book

The Great Cholesterol Con: The Truth About What Really Causes Heart Disease and How to Avoid It

He also has a lively blog at:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org

 

[clfdallas]

Didn't you see the news in April that Eli Lily cancelled the research and development of the drug evacetrapib. Although it worked and lowered bad cholesterol and raised good, it had no effect on heart disease. Seems pretty good proof that cholesterol numbers are not useful in evaluating heart disease.

Besides, its been known for years that the cholesterol you eat does not effect your blood cholesterol.

 

[harley]

You might want to read at Dr. Kendrick's book

The Great Cholesterol Con: The Truth About What Really Causes Heart Disease and How to Avoid It

He also has a lively blog at:

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org

I've been battling my doctor for a few years regarding cholesterol and heart disease. It's reached the point that I think she would prefer I find a new doctor. I was on a statin that kept my numbers down, but they pulled me off that one due to discovering a bad interaction with my blood pressure med. The new statin they put me on gave me major muscle pain and weakness. My doctor didn't believe it was happening. While researching that I ran across Dr. Kendrick. He makes an awful lot of sense, and his numbers check out as far as I can tell. I took myself off the pravastatin and felt much better, but now my cholesterol is up. She (doc) is really pushing me to take a statin. She is absolutely in the "high cholesterol = imminent death" camp. We're changing medical plans soon, and so I won't be seeing her anymore. I wonder what my next doc will think.

 

[Dash man]

My cardiologist just put me on 40 mg of a Lipitor generic, more concerned with keeping my LDL low and said HDL doesn't matter any more. I had a high cardiac calcium score in a recent test and he wants my LDL below 60.


Enjoying life!

 

[O2Bfree]

Both my parents were on statins for years, and both ended up with clogged arteries requiring surgical treatment. My dad had one near his heart and my mom had one in her neck. They weren't couch potatoes, stayed active running their business and traveling, but didn't do any formal exercise and had rich diets with lots of red meat, sauces, desserts, etc. Mom has high blood pressure, and dad never did.

My cholesterol has gone up these past couple years, in spite of regular cardio and weight training. I lost 9 pounds over the last year, and it still went up again according to a screening at work. Seems like those screenings show a higher value than my doctor, maybe because the screenings are usually in April, and my physical is usually after the summer months of extra activity.

I'm going to take ginger supplements, 3 g/day, and see what happens. Might even get a blood test with one of those online outfits after a couple months to see what my lipids are up to.

 

[braumeister]

IMHO your blood cholesterol doesn't really have anything to do with your risk. This was shown quite a while ago.

nearly 75 percent of patients hospitalized for a heart attack had cholesterol levels that would indicate they were not at high risk for a cardiovascular event, based oncurrent national cholesterol guidelines.

Specifically, these patients had low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol levels that met current guidelines, and close to half had LDL levels classified in guidelines as optimal (less than 100 mg/dL).

Most heart attack patients' cholesterol levels did not indicate cardiac risk

 

[Khan]

Back in 2013, tests showed I had high cholesterol. Dr put me on statin for a trial. I didn't like the side effects and we stopped. Had more blood work a year or so later and we agreed that although the cholesterol total was high, the ratios were excellent and I had minimal triglycerides and no other risks.

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[harley]

The ratios are probably more important than the numbers. My HDL is naturally low, but I combat that pretty successfully with niacin. My triglycerides are too high, but are much lower than they used to be. I'm hoping they continue to drop as (if) I lose weight.

 

[MildlyEccentric]

I expect the responses to your post will run span a broad range. Regarding total cholesterol (TC), the American Heart Association as well as other medical organizations use TC as one of the risk factors for heart disease. This is typically based on the Framingham study which showed higher TC was correlated with heart disease. Similarly, higher high-density lipoprotein (HDL) a.k.a. "good cholesterol" correlated with lower heart disease. While the numbers themselves are a bit of a moving target, lowering TC and raising HDL seem like reasonable goals.

I started on a no oil, vegan diet as well as a statin after my cardiologist recommended bypass surgery. My TC dropped about 100 points and is currently under 100, but I'm sure my path is one that not many would choose.

 

[braumeister]

based on the Framingham study which showed higher TC was correlated with heart disease.

I think you'll find that current analysis of the Framingham study indicates that blood cholesterol levels are irrelevant as long as the TC/HDL or LDL/HDL ratio is low. So HDL is the actual factor at work here.

How to raise HDL? Not too hard. Exercise, stopping smoking, a little alcohol, reducing sugar intake, losing excess weight, and including a decent quantity of saturated fat in the diet are all good ways.

 

[Dash man]

The ratios are probably more important than the numbers. My HDL is naturally low, but I combat that pretty successfully with niacin. My triglycerides are too high, but are much lower than they used to be. I'm hoping they continue to drop as (if) I lose weight.

I was on niacin and my cardiologist told me to stop immediately. Apparently it can contribute to having a stroke.


Enjoying life!

 

[aja8888]

I must be lucky.

Still on my low carb routine - a year now.

I had my annual physical last week and everything was in range. Cholesterol was normal, no diabetes issues, low PSA (under 1.0), etc. EKG was normal. Doc said my results were boring (kiddingly). I guess this is good news for a 72 year old.

 

[Ronstar]

Had 188 cholesterol, 79 Ldl, 73 hdl and 62 triglycerides in my last checkup. I'm up for another checkup in 6 weeks. I've been running 20-25 miles a week, and eating lots of carbs recently. Dr. has convinced me to go on paleo diet-very little carbs. I've been on it for 3 days, so I'll see what affect the diet has. But so far I'm craving carbs big time.


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[Options]

Diet. Exercise.

When you take care of these two things click bait books and articles such as this one are of no interest to you. There's no "secret" to total optimum health (no "myths", no "hints", no "tips", no "hidden truths", either). The "truth" (diet/exercise) has been out there in plain view for decades and decades and decades and decades. As a very small example:

https://consumer.healthday.com/vitamins-and-nutritional-information-27/high-cholesterol-health-news-359/

making a few lifestyle changes is one of the best steps you can take to keep blood cholesterol levels under control. Exercising more, eating a healthy diet and managing your weight are all important steps in managing cholesterol. It’s also important to quit smoking, as this can also play a role.

https://consumer.healthday.com/fitness-information-14/weight-lifting-health-news-290/pumping-iron-could-lengthen-seniors-lives-710455.html

"Typically, two to three exercise sessions a week for 20 to 30 minutes are enough for most people to develop results," said Kraschnewski. "Our studies have demonstrated older adults can double their strength in just 12 weeks."

Emphasis added

 

[aja8888]

But so far I'm craving carbs big time.


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Shortly after I cut back on carbs, I would have killed for one of these:



(but you will get over it)

 

[niven]

My cardiologist just put me on 40 mg of a Lipitor generic, more concerned with keeping my LDL low and said HDL doesn't matter any more. I had a high cardiac calcium score in a recent test and he wants my LDL below 60.


Enjoying life!

LDL below 60? Anything less than 100 is considered optimal. I'd be questioning that.

EDIT: Sorry, I've had naturally high cholesterol my whole life (even when in my early 20's and very fit) and even though I've been on a statin for 30 years, I've never been down that low on LDLs. It just seems extreme, but what do I know?

 

[audreyh1]

Some doctors target very low LDL levels in patients with heart disease (who have had an event) or are diabetic.

Meanwhile for folks with no disease and low risk levels, LDL of up to 160 is still OK. "Optimal" really depends on your profile.

 

[niven]

Some doctors target very low LDL levels in patients with heart disease (who have had an event) or are diabetic.

Meanwhile for folks with no disease and low risk levels, LDL of up to 160 is still OK. "Optimal" really depends on your profile.

You're right. I just assumed the doctor was pushing for a low LDL based off of one test, but there could be more to it than that.

 

[Ronstar]

Shortly after I cut back on carbs, I would have killed for one of these:



View attachment 23906



(but you will get over it)

I really didn't need to see that.


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[harley]

I was on niacin and my cardiologist told me to stop immediately. Apparently it can contribute to having a stroke.

That's not accurate at all. Recent studies may have indicated that it doesn't reduce the chance of heart disease or strokes, but I have never seen a study that indicates that it causes strokes, and I read about it a lot. I've considered stopping it because it has other serious side effects, but not that one.

 

[harley]

You know, the more I read about diabetes and cholesterol, as well as their various treatments, the more I realize the medical profession doesn't have a clue. They grab a symptom and treat the hell out of it, until they realize either the symptom isn't the cause or that the treatment is worse than the symptom. Then they grab another pharmaceutical strand of spaghetti and throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. I think I may stop taking some of my meds, at least the ones that cause me problems or that have serious side effects. My diabetes and blood pressure meds seem to be pretty safe, but the cholesterol side of things is just too unknown and potentially dangerous. Something to seriously think about.

 

[eytonxav]

How to raise HDL? Not too hard. Exercise, stopping smoking, a little alcohol, reducing sugar intake, losing excess weight, and including a decent quantity of saturated fat in the diet are all good ways.

It may not be too hard for some individuals, but for others it can be extremely difficult regardless of what you do. I suspect some have genetic makeups that limit their ability to move this marker much at all. I am one of those and find it almost impossible for me to move above 40 regardless of what I do exercise and diet wise.

 

[braumeister]

some have genetic makeups that limit their ability to move this marker much at all.

Certainly.
It's just one of a great many things that may or may not be "risk markers" and it's definitely important to look at the big picture. That's why I get annoyed at those doctors who focus solely on LDL with what seems like tunnel vision.

 

[Dash man]

LDL below 60? Anything less than 100 is considered optimal. I'd be questioning that.

EDIT: Sorry, I've had naturally high cholesterol my whole life (even when in my early 20's and very fit) and even though I've been on a statin for 30 years, I've never been down that low on LDLs. It just seems extreme, but what do I know?

I had a cardiac calcium score of 1036 where a score of 400 is considered high risk. Fortunately the nuclear stress test and carotid ultrasounds I had indicate good blood flow showing the plaque buildup is spread out and not accumulating in one spot creating a blockage requiring intervention. My worst case is a 51% blockage in one part of my carotid. He wants my LDL below 60 as a target and wants my triglycerides lower to prevent problems in the future. An LDL below 100 may be optimal for an average person, but with the above information and a family history of strokes, I'm listening to him. I don't experience and side effects from statins.

Edit: My LDL was already below 100 before he put me on a statin, so the results should be interesting. My triglycerides have always been a little high, so we'll see how that goes.

Enjoying life!