Documentary, "How Suze Orman Scammed The World."

[2035]

I'm watching this now and her deceit runs even deeper than I thought.

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[REWahoo]

How about a short summary of salient points so we don't have to spend an hour and fifteen minutes watching the video to see if we are interested?

 

[2035]

Documentary, "How Suze Orman Scammed The World."

How about a short summary of salient points so we don't have to spend an hour and fifteen minutes watching the video to see if we are interested?

Watch the first few minutes and you'll get it. It strings together videos and interviews that document her numerous scams such as her prepaid card and her lying about her credentials. Best of all the filmmaker is an Emmy award winner who worked with her for years.


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[Another Reader]

Supposedly, Suze Orman was a waitress at the Buttercup Bakery in Berkeley back in the day. Who knew back then what heights she would attain....

 

[athena53]

I did watch the first few minutes. I'm no fan of Suze because she's against any borrowing and I last I read, thought the stock market was a bad place to put money, but I do agree with her basic LBYM, save $$ and avoid credit card debt advice.

You know what I saw? A woman who's blunt, forceful and says what she thinks, even when it's not "nice". Women like that are made the subject of a poisonous documentary. Men like that are admired; many become CEOs and high-ranking politicians. Why?

 

[Neill]

I actually like Orman's general message. I haven't studied what she says in detail because the shows seem really repetitive. Kind of like Dave Ramsey. I love his general stuff as well but can't watch the shows. I am pretty sure I wouldn't agree with everything. Like Ramsay's donation stuff.
I expect it's a major reach to say this woman is some kind of scam artist.

 

[Aerides]

+1 athena53

I couldn't make it past the production intro... so I searched for a summary:

The Dumbest Criticism of Suze Orman I've Ever Seen -- The Motley Fool

"At the end of the day, most readers would probably be better off ignoring the documentary altogether and focusing on Orman's core message: Pay down your debt, spend less than you save, and invest the difference.

While that may seem like a simple formula, it's the only one virtually guaranteed to improve your personal financial situation."

 

[travelover]

Those eyes scare the hell out of me.

 

[Neill]

spend less than you save, and invest the difference."

Does that make sense? Seems like a snake eating it's tail. Maybe save doesn't include investment? Then save is dependent on spend. Don't you have to start with spend to know how much to save? Mmmm.

 

[bclover]

so my general feelings on Suze and Dave are pretty much the same as folks have about Financial advisers.

They want to make money, they do it by telling you how to make your life better and by selling you a book or video or "financial" peace.

I think many many folks (and I include myself in this group) are financially uneducated. we simply don't teach it. In the philly area, there is a tv commercial that makes my skin crawl, it's from a company that swears it will raise your credit score. It goes on and on about how if you are in debt "it's not your fault"

Our national psyche has moved away from "saving" to "spending". lol, I going to show my age here but when I was a kid, you use to get a free small appliance for opening a savings account. Now it's the opposite, the free stuff comes when you get a credit card. I remember when my mom got her first credit card from Montgomery Ward (youngins goggle it). she showed all my aunts. Now I have H.S. nieces and nephews packing Visa's with 10K limits.

I don't watch either Suzy or Dave, I hate the "can I buy it" segment. Seriously? you are going to really take purchasing advice from a complete stranger?

That being said, as long as they are not defrauding people, I don't have a major problem with her.

for some reason her PBS specials drive me insane. I think it's the sound of her voice.

 

[tmm99]

When the market crashed in 2008 (when I didn't know much about investing), she said to buy stocks that generated good dividends because the market might be down for a while (at least, that's, I think, was the reasoning behind it, but I cannot remember.) She mentioned specific stocks - The ones she mentioned were DVY and VNQ. I bought them both several times between 2009 and 2012 and I have been very happy with my purchases. I probably would have been happy with many other purchases also (because the market has been up and up since 2009), but this dividend generating stock recommendation has worked out great for me. Those two stocks were the only stocks I ever heard her mention on her TV show (She never recommended specific stocks except these two, as far as I know.)

 

[Mulligan]

I actually like Orman's general message. I haven't studied what she says in detail because the shows seem really repetitive. Kind of like Dave Ramsey. I love his general stuff as well but can't watch the shows. I am pretty sure I wouldn't agree with everything. Like Ramsay's donation stuff.

I expect it's a major reach to say this woman is some kind of scam artist.

I watched it frequently as "go to sleep medicine". I saw little problem with what she said, also. Was her advise sophisticated and detailed for maximum investment opportunity? Heck no...But my land her call in people were hopeless financial braindead people. If you feed them too much info nothing would have been retained.


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[FI by 2024]

Does that make sense? Seems like a snake eating it's tail. Maybe save doesn't include investment? Then save is dependent on spend. Don't you have to start with spend to know how much to save? Mmmm.

I'd be willing to bet they meant "spend less than you EARN, and invest the difference"

 

[Ready]

I watched the whole video...all 90 minutes of it. It focuses on her prepaid debit card, and her claims that using the card "may" result in creating a FICO score for people who otherwise have no established lines of credit. She apparently cut a deal with Trans Union to accept the transaction data on the card, but with no real agreement that they would use it to determine credit worthiness. The whole concept makes no sense though. With a debit card you are just spending your own money, not borrowing. So it's not relevant data for a credit bureau to look at.

The card has a $3.00 monthly admin fee, plus about a dozen other fees for calling an agent, requesting a paper bill, withdrawing cash from an ATM, etc. So basically all debit cards are rip offs, and Suze's card, while maybe having somewhat less onerous fees than the competition, just becomes another rip off card for people who can't establish credit and obtain a credit card, where most of these fees would not apply.

She quietly shut the business down after a couple of years with no explanation, and the creator of this documentary takes serious issue with statements she made about the product.

I've always found Suze to be entertaining, but certainly not credible. Her basic advice about LBYM is fine, and she picked up a few nuggets over the years that she shared on the shows. But she also said some things on her show which were just absurd. My pet peeve was when she told these naive callers who know nothing about finances to buy individual bonds rather than bond funds. Like a person who doesn't know the different between stocks and bonds is going to figure out which individual bonds to buy, what price to pay, and how to build a diversified portfolio with them.

For those who have 90 minutes to spare, it's certainly an interesting video, although I thought it could have easily been half that length and made the same points.

 

[Major Tom]

The hyperbolic nature of the title of the video alone acts as a warning signal to me. For the most part, I'm not a fan of "financial media guru" types but, without even watching any of the video, or checking it's writers and producers, my BS radar is already on yellow alert.

 

[scrabbler1]

I'd be willing to bet they meant "spend less than you EARN, and invest the difference"

This is what I thought, too.

What I dislike about Orman is how she rails against bond funds in her shows.

 

[clifp]

I watched 5 minutes that was enough. I have read enough good things about Dave Ramsey "Money Makeover" from both people on the forum and other financially sophisticated people to think that on balance he does a lot more good than harm.

Based on watching her program, and other comments about her debit card, I think at best she is a wash, and likely does more harm than good.

 

[GravitySucks]

DW used to love the Can I Afford it part. The sillier the better.
I am always happy to see someone on tv telling people that paying credit card interest of 21% or higher is a stupid thing to do.

 

[RockyMtn]

too me a very scary woman. No different than any other pump and dump type scammer. Unfortunately she had a very high pedestal to p** from. Can't believe the semi good people at PBS let her on for all of those years IMHO!

 

[Ready]

I don't think Suze is any worse than Dave Ramsey, who tells people to pay off their smallest credit card balance first, rather than the one with the highest interest rate, because it will make them feel like they have accomplished something. And, he tells people to expect 10% returns on their equities.

These are just entertainers, not people to take serious financial advice from.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I only watched five or ten minutes but the documentary maker certainly has it in for ol' Suze--it's almost personal for her and it's a one-sided rant. Suze's scamming re the debit card fees her sponsored card charged (I think this is the whole point?) is certainly a legitimate issue, but sone people say she's mean so throw that irrelevancy in too.

 

[kombat]

And, [Dave Ramsey] tells people to expect 10% returns on their equities.

It was 10 - 12% the last time I listened to him. Also, he makes no allowance for fees, expenses, or inflation whatsoever. He just says, "Save $20/month from age 18 to age 70, and you'll have a million dollars!"

#1, that assumes a steady 12% return for 52 years.

#2, as mentioned, it makes no allowance for fees or expenses.

#3, who wants to work until they're 70?

#4, what's $1MM going to buy in 2068?

The worst part is, I believe it breeds the opposite of what he's trying to accomplish. By using such insanely inflated rates of return, people will listen and think to themselves, "Geez, if $20/month will get me a million, I don't need to start investing yet, I've got plenty of time, I don't need an entire million. I'll spend my money now, and start investing later. I'm sure half a million will be more than enough for me."

Drives me nuts. His "get out of debt" advice is OK, but his investing advice is completely horrible.

 

[athena53]

I don't think Suze is any worse than Dave Ramsey, who tells people to pay off their smallest credit card balance first, rather than the one with the highest interest rate, because it will make them feel like they have accomplished something.

The field of Behavioral Economics explores reasons people make economic decisions that aren't completely rational. You're right that Dave's "snowball method" isn't the most rational if the smallest balance has the lowest interest, but it seems to work for a lot of people. Whatever gets them out of credit card debt makes me happy.

 

[marko]

I think it's safe to say that most folks on this forum are 100% more financially savvy than those who may spend a lot of time watching Suzy.

If her message of LBYM sinks in to just a few, maybe she's done her job.

It's easy to criticize her for being simplistic when you're "in the know"... for those who don't know a mutual fund from a savings account, she could be helping some lost soul out there who'll eventually end up on this forum.

 

[Neill]

I don't think Suze is any worse than Dave Ramsey, who tells people to pay off their smallest credit card balance first, rather than the one with the highest interest rate, because it will make them feel like they have accomplished something. And, he tells people to expect 10% returns on their equities.

These are just entertainers, not people to take serious financial advice from.

I was also bothered by the advice to pay off the smallest card first. I put it down to psychology like another poster said. So I can let that one slide.
My biggest beef with him is that he tells people to give to charity as they will get back more (good things happen I guess) later. I just can't see how giving anything away is going to help when you have credit card debt. Just wait till you have your stuff in order before thinking about giving stuff away.
then again I am in the camp of waiting until your dead because you never know what you might need. My wife gives anyway and tells me I am mean.