Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community

Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community (http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/)
-   FIRE and Money (http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/)
-   -   10 secrets that are not really secrets to ER crowd (http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/10-secrets-that-are-not-really-secrets-to-er-crowd-89687.html)

mickeyd 12-09-2017 12:47 PM

10 secrets that are not really secrets to ER crowd
 
Here's a fluff article that will not cover any new territory to most of you, but the newer folks may pick up some new tidbits. Just think LBYM.

Quote:

The secrets to becoming a millionaire are not as mysterious as you might think. Small tweaks, goal setting and long-term financial planning can move you closer to that seven-figure number.
https://www.thebalance.com/secrets-o...71991&utm_term=

scrabbler1 12-09-2017 01:22 PM

Fluff article, for sure. I could have added a few nonfluff items but some would get me into some trouble, for sure!:coolsmiley:

frayne 12-09-2017 01:36 PM

Good basic list of what many of us have done with the exception of not being DIYers. I'd say we weren't afraid to ask or to educate ourselves.

5. Not Afraid to Ask for Advice. Most millionaires aren’t do-it-yourself (DIY) investors. They know what their strengths are, and if their strengths don't lie in investing and financial planning, they leave it up to the experts.

GalaxyBoy 12-09-2017 01:37 PM

The first one, "Job Stability" (staying at one employer for years and years), is BS these days. The only times I ever got decent raises were when I jumped jobs.

And "not DIY investors?" Probably not so much on this forum, at least not for me. My portfolio benefited greatly from firing my broker. He was getting richer; I was getting broker.

Red Badger 12-09-2017 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalaxyBoy (Post 1976865)
The first one, "Job Stability" (staying at one employer for years and years), is BS these days. The only times I ever got decent raises were when I jumped jobs.

And "not DIY investors?" Probably not so much on this forum, at least not for me. My portfolio benefited greatly from firing my broker. He was getting richer; I was getting broker.

While I agree that it's harder these days, I did okay with a 2 career path. First was amry/army reserve; then, one mega-c0rp for 25 years (but I took some high risk jobs and also relocated to pull it off). I also marketed myself, received decent offers, but remained when existing employer sweetened the pot. I only played that hole card twice - - - when the economy was smokin' (dot com run up and the boom a few years before the great recession).

Totally agree on second point. My simple 3 fund (index) has served me well without putting food on some FA's table.

OldShooter 12-09-2017 02:25 PM

Ho-hum, nothing revolutionary. Similar to Millionaire Next Door.

But this type of thing is really junk science. They survey millionaires. Fine. They come up with a list of common attributes. Fine. But they do not survey non-millionaires, so they have no idea whether some or all of the attributes are also present in the non-millionaire population. Said another way, they have no way to know whether any of these attributes actually distinguishes millionaires from people with less money.

Nassim Taleb, in The Black Swan, describes this issue as the fallacy of "silent evidence." It's an important takeaway from the book. Taleb uses a story from Cicero to highlight the fallacy.
Diagoras, a nonbeliever in the gods, was shown painted tablets bearing the portraits of some worshippers who prayed, then survived a subsequent shipwreck. The implication was that praying protects you from drowning. Diagoras asked,“How many of those who drowned were believers? Did you interview them as well?”
When it came out, Millionaire Next Door was heavily criticized for having this same problem. In Search of Excellence was another book with the problem. Both books were, of course, huge best sellers. Junk science is popular stuff.

growing_older 12-09-2017 04:47 PM

Quote:

they leave it up to the experts.
Among the FIRE people I know, this is not at all true. Some use advisers and some do not, but the vast majority are DIY investors.

As for the idea of having only one employer, this may have been useful if there was a pension to be had and it was based on years of service. This hasn't been a common case in the commercial world for several decades.

As the article suggests, this longevity strategy is mostly applicable to public employment:

Quote:

same employer for two decades or longer these days, there are still a number of people who do it, including teachers and other government workers.

jfn111 12-09-2017 05:44 PM

I hit 9 out of 10.
1 job from 22 years old to retired (kind of) at 55.
Didn't seek out expert advice, just kept saving.

DrRoy 12-10-2017 04:25 AM

Quote:

The first one, "Job Stability" (staying at one employer for years and years), is BS these days.
I was one of the few people I knew that worked for the same Megacorp for 32 years, then the business group I was in was sold off, and I continued with that for 4 more until RE. There were some other old timers at Megacorp, but virtually none at the client companies that I was involved with.

Quote:

And "not DIY investors?" Probably not so much on this forum, at least not for me. My portfolio benefited greatly from firing my broker. He was getting richer; I was getting broker.
+1. I was totally DIY. Tried an advisor for a while but dropped him after my performance was better than his.

kcowan 12-10-2017 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrRoy (Post 1977081)
I was totally DIY. Tried an advisor for a while but dropped him after my performance was better than his.

I used to ask prospective FAs/Brokers how they had performed with details and how much they paid someone to manage their money. I found one broker who answered and I used him for ten years until he retired. By then I was totally DIY.

(I maintain a small fund position with an FA just so the DW has some place to go if I predecease her.)

Nemo2 12-10-2017 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfn111 (Post 1976979)
I hit 9 out of 10.

I got 'maybe' 5, but #7 was/is the main one.

karen1972 12-10-2017 07:12 AM

#7. You take someone who saves $30k at the age of 30 by buying a used Camry vs. a BMW.. invested over 35 years @ 6.5% gives you $270K. How many people realize that BMW cost them a quarter million dollars... thats one expensive decision.

Jay_Gatsby 12-11-2017 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karen1972 (Post 1977125)
#7. You take someone who saves $30k at the age of 30 by buying a used Camry vs. a BMW.. invested over 35 years @ 6.5% gives you $270K. How many people realize that BMW cost them a quarter million dollars... thats one expensive decision.


I used to try and tell this to many of my young professional colleagues - to no avail. They all said that they had worked hard and deserved it, or they felt that they needed to project a certain image. What they didn’t realize then was that our employer - a large law firm - didn’t care what they drove. Some conspiracy theorists would say that the firm wanted them to drive expensive cars to lock on the golden handcuffs. Didn’t matter to me. I bought a Honda, saved everything I could over several years, paid off my student loans, and built my initial nest egg. Roughly 20 years later, I’m FI and thinking about my second act.

Danmar 12-11-2017 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karen1972 (Post 1977125)
#7. You take someone who saves $30k at the age of 30 by buying a used Camry vs. a BMW.. invested over 35 years @ 6.5% gives you $270K. How many people realize that BMW cost them a quarter million dollars... thats one expensive decision.

Why is it always a BMW. Why not a Mercedes, F150, corvette, or Cadillac?

Nemo2 12-11-2017 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar (Post 1977676)
Why is it always a BMW. Why not a Mercedes, F150, corvette, or Cadillac?

Stereotypes R Us?

kcowan 12-11-2017 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar (Post 1977676)
Why is it always a BMW. Why not a Mercedes, F150, corvette, or Cadillac?

Each of those conjures up a different image of the buyer. So does Honda and Toyota.

Danmar 12-11-2017 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcowan (Post 1977691)
Each of those conjures up a different image of the buyer. So does Honda and Toyota.

OK but hardly factual. BMW has been very successful developing a brand that emphasizes cars that are fun to drive. Somewhere along the way some people have decided BMW’s represents youthful irresponsibility? Anyway they need not cost more than the brands I listed. Maybe it’s the youthful thing?

Koogie 12-11-2017 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar (Post 1977710)
OK but hardly factual. BMW has been very successful developing a brand that emphasizes cars that are fun to drive. Somewhere along the way some people have decided BMW’s represents youthful irresponsibility? Anyway they need not cost more than the brands I listed. Maybe it’s the youthful thing?

Studies find BMW drivers are perceived as the rudest and most entitled.

https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/201...tudy-suggests/

“Despite its good brakes, a BMW will usually stop with a jerk.”
:laugh:

Walt34 12-11-2017 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koogie (Post 1977745)
Studies find BMW drivers are perceived as the rudest and most entitled.

https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/201...tudy-suggests/

“Despite its good brakes, a BMW will usually stop with a jerk.”
:laugh:

Way back when I was a police officer in the Patrol Division it was well known that BMW cars and drivers were immune from the laws of physics. At least the drivers thought so.

On many occasions they discovered that they had been misinformed....:laugh:

karen1972 12-11-2017 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danmar (Post 1977676)
Why is it always a BMW. Why not a Mercedes, F150, corvette, or Cadillac?

Just because that's what was always in our parking lot. Nothing against the rest, but our work was either Audi or BMW, a few Lexus SUV, maybe 1 corvette, no F150s in that crowd and no Cadillacs.

The BMW comes to mind because that crowd was all about what series of BMW they bought. And that the BMW dealer told me to come back when I could "afford" one based solely on my looks.. wouldn't even let me test drive, so yeh they are the ones I pick on.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:57 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.