Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community

Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community (http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/)
-   FIRE and Money (http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/)
-   -   Restricted stock will never fully vest (http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/restricted-stock-will-never-fully-vest-92745.html)

Kelor 07-08-2018 04:06 PM

Restricted stock will never fully vest
 
I'm sure others receive restricted stock each year that has its own individual vesting schedule. Effectively you will never completely vest if they continue to give you new shares each year.

How do you convince yourself to forfeit significant shares while pulling the retirement trigger? I'm running into a situation where I will consistently leave nearly 2 1/2 years of income on the table once I retire.

I was advised that an experienced attorney might be able to negotiate the shares in exchange for a smooth separation, but I haven't found any examples where this has actually worked.

thepalmersinking 07-08-2018 04:13 PM

Mine auto vests at retirement

Totoro 07-08-2018 04:19 PM

Apart from potential legal ways out, just treat it simply as future compensation.

At one point you'll leave and stock will be left on the table anyway, right?. So why factor it in separately. It's just future compensation like your salary, nothing more.

MichaelB 07-08-2018 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelor (Post 2074655)
I'm sure others receive restricted stock each year that has its own individual vesting schedule. Effectively you will never completely vest if they continue to give you new shares each year.

How do you convince yourself to forfeit significant shares while pulling the retirement trigger? I'm running into a situation where I will consistently leave nearly 2 1/2 years of income on the table once I retire.

I was advised that an experienced attorney might be able to negotiate the shares in exchange for a smooth separation, but I haven't found any examples where this has actually worked.

You are responding to the RSU's just as your employer hopes. They are designed to keep you "on the hook" for as long as the employer wants you.

Nothing wrong with that. Assuming your employer wants you to stay, you will continue to get RSU's and stick around. At least until you have enough money, your BS bucket is full, you find yourself thinking "all that money isn't worth it". Or, you might get laid off and lose all the unvested units. Or have a health crisis. It helps to ask yourself "how much do we need?" instead of "can I leave behind all that money".

Unvested RSUs are ironclad and they have only one purpose, so keeping them while leaving your employment is a low probability scenario.

joeea 07-08-2018 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelor (Post 2074655)
I'm sure others receive restricted stock each year that has its own individual vesting schedule. Effectively you will never completely vest if they continue to give you new shares each year.

Once you are no longer employed there, you will no longer receive new shares.
Problem solved.

Quote:

How do you convince yourself to forfeit significant shares while pulling the retirement trigger? I'm running into a situation where I will consistently leave nearly 2 1/2 years of income on the table once I retire.
Most of us leave something on the table when we eventually retire. Learn to accept that.

MRG 07-08-2018 05:12 PM

First class problem for sure.

I received options for 10 years and was wondering the same thing. Fortunately Megacorp fixed it for me by kicking me and 500 others out. Problem solved.

Al18 07-08-2018 05:14 PM

Review your company's RSU plan to see if you can receive the shares early. My company recently changed their plan to allow employees who retire at age 55 or later and have worked for the company at least 10 years: all RSU's will vest on retirement.

RockyMtn 07-08-2018 05:29 PM

I went to a "consultant" position from full time that allowed remaining options to vest. Worked out nicely and they never really used me as a consultant other than a couple of times.

Lukeee 07-08-2018 05:43 PM

Perhaps have a mindset where you think they are paying you in advance for future work. Since you won’t be around, you won’t get to cash that in. My attitude to ER is about hitting that number that will give me the lifestyle I want and still leaving some for the kids. By choosing ER we are leaving money on the table in exchange for something we value more. Knowing when you have enough is the difference between ER and leaving at 67... or beyond.

mpeirce 07-08-2018 05:55 PM

I remember my last review before leaving. At the end my boss mentioned a new RSU grant. I thanked him and pointed out that I wouldn't be able to vest those shares and it might be good to give them to someone else on the team. That's what he did. (He was up to speed on my leaving.)

Conundrum 07-08-2018 05:57 PM

Everything vests at 35 years of service for me.

FIREd 07-08-2018 05:57 PM

RSUs are golden handcuffs. They are meant to keep you beholden to the company. Once you reach a place where you have "enough", you won't mind breaking out of them even if that means leaving money of the table.

Aerides 07-08-2018 06:10 PM

You might try negotiating with your boss at merit/bonus time (a few months in advance, understanding your MC's schedules) to avoid RSU's and see if other compensation options are available. In my MC we had a variety of awards but they were usually determined about 2-3 months in advance of the actual review time.

Have some story ready about discomfort with the stock market volatility or something as to why you'd prefer something else, even if it works out to far less actual cash.

Conundrum 07-08-2018 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREd (Post 2074711)
RSUs are golden handcuffs. They are meant to keep you beholden to the company. Once you reach a place where you have "enough", you won't mind breaking out of them even if that means leaving money of the table.

100% in agreement. I left some on the table when I FIRE’d. Sticking around to get them wasn’t worth the price vs. freedom.

RunningBum 07-08-2018 06:41 PM

How much are we talking about? Back around 2000, I was thinking of retiring, but I would've had to have walked away from unvested stock options worth mid-6 figures, IIRC. I decided not to, and since I was staying, I didn't exercise much of my vested stock options. Then the bubble burst. Many of my options were underwater, and stayed there. I had to work another 10 years, and never had another big stock option exercise.

RSUs are less volatile, but when you're ready, just go. Worry about what you have, not what you may have in the future.

I like Aerides idea about trying to get something other than RSUs if you can. That way it's in hand and not in handcuffs.

It's hard, believe me, but don't lose sight of the big picture.

Texas Proud 07-08-2018 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al18 (Post 2074694)
Review your company's RSU plan to see if you can receive the shares early. My company recently changed their plan to allow employees who retire at age 55 or later and have worked for the company at least 10 years: all RSU's will vest on retirement.




Mine did not vest upon retirement, but I also did not lose them....


I only got them for 1 year and not that many, so if I had lost them no big deal.... BTW, I was let go so that might have been a factor in me not losing them...

Unpaintedhuffhines 07-08-2018 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conundrum (Post 2074716)
100% in agreement. I left some on the table when I FIRE’d. Sticking around to get them wasn’t worth the price vs. freedom.

Exactly the issue I have. At our company, they automatically all vest at 55 + 10 years of service or something like 25 years of service (maybe it's 30 or 35, no idea, since I won't be working when I'm 85).

I knew when I took this job 2.5 years ago that at some point I'd leave a big sack of cash on the table, and every year it likely will be more. So I'm only counting on the shares that will vest within the next 18-24 months, and have come to terms with that.

Now, I certainly won't miss a big vesting date by 2 weeks, but I know at some point I'll just have to walk away.

As others have said, this behavior is exactly why these programs are designed this way. Truly a first world problem, but I'm glad I'm living in it!

Katiek 07-08-2018 08:23 PM

When you leave, you are also leaving all your future salary on the table as well. The RSU's are just part of that "future compensation" since you have to work in the future years to earn them. Sounds like you're getting quite a bit in RSU's, so I'm sure it's hard to see those numbers on your statement and not think of them as "yours". But it's really just a promise of future compensation for future work, and if you want to retire you've decided your time is worth more than the future promised consideration.

Of course, if you think the future money is worth continuing to work, that's a valid option too. But at some point, the effort may not be worth the money to you.

TheRunningMan 07-08-2018 09:33 PM

"I thanked him and pointed out that I wouldn't be able to vest those shares and it might be good to give them to someone else on the team."

That is a high country decision...well done for both you and your employer. I will face such a decision shortly and plan to communicate in similar fashion, though it is a bit of a high wire act.

Cobra9777 07-08-2018 09:59 PM

At my old Mega, you could keep both unvested options and RSUs and let them continue to vest if you retired at 55 or later with at least 20 years of service. I left at 52 with 25 years of service. So I only kept vested options. All RSUs and unvested options went poof. There was also a large bump in the pension value at 55. Collectively, those 3 items represented about $1M I left on the table in exchange for 3 years of freedom. But it didn't matter. I didn't need that money for the retirement plan to work. And at 55, there was probably another $1M on the table that I didn't need. Had I worked past 52, all that money would have gone to my kids. They're great kids and all, but... no.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.