PG&E Another train wreck stock

[Lakewood90712]

Down 53 %, most in the last 2 days

With the liability coming down the road for the nor call fires it could BK.

They are still working out liability issues from 14 utility caused fires from 2017.

P/E at the new price is 98.

 

[Another Reader]

I don't envy the guy that has to show up at the press conference every evening to talk about restoring power. He sort of has that deer in the headlights look. Southern California Edison appears to have responsibility for one of the Southern California fires. Same series of events.

The State passed a law earlier this year year to allow the utilities to offload the costs of these fires onto the ratepayers. My $0.37 per kwh will probably be twice that once the liability and costs are established.

 

[RobbieB]

Yup. Good time to go solar.

 

[NW-Bound]

This fire is awful. According to a media piece I read, the fire started at around 6:30AM, and by noon most of the town of Paradise was already burned. That would explain how so many died, as there was no ample time for warning and evacuation. And the hilly terrain offered few roads out of the area. Just awful.

Makes me wonder if it were not for PG&E equipment or electrical wire problems, could a fire of any sort, a home fire, a car fire, or a carelessly discarded cigarette butt trigger the same devastatingly fast fire?

 

[Just_Steve]

Down 53 %, most in the last 2 days

With the liability coming down the road for the nor call fires it could BK.

They are still working out liability issues from 14 utility caused fires from 2017.

P/E at the new price is 98.

Wouldn't be the first time.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-10-Biggest-Energy-Company-Bankruptcies.html

Pacific Gas & Electric Company. Bankrupt April 6, 2001. Assets $36.1 billion

California’s largest publicly-owned utility went bust after deregulation led the company to incur billions in debt. After selling its gas power plants, the company had to buy power from other energy companies. Buying at fluctuating prices and selling at fixed prices led to losses and eventual bankruptcy. But according to Time, wholesale prices eventually dropped, and the day the company emerged from bankruptcy in 2004, its stock was worth three times as much as when it filed for protection.

 

[haha]

I guess utilities are no longer widows'and orphans' stocks.

Ha

 

[Lakewood90712]

Wouldn't be the first time.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-10-Biggest-Energy-Company-Bankruptcies.html

Pacific Gas & Electric Company. Bankrupt April 6, 2001. Assets $36.1 billion

California’s largest publicly-owned utility went bust after deregulation led the company to incur billions in debt. After selling its gas power plants, the company had to buy power from other energy companies. Buying at fluctuating prices and selling at fixed prices led to losses and eventual bankruptcy. But according to Time, wholesale prices eventually dropped, and the day the company emerged from bankruptcy in 2004, its stock was worth three times as much as when it filed for protection.

And P G and E was the biggest lobbyist for de-regulation a couple of years before the BK.

Add in scandals: Hinkley , San Bruno Pipeline Rupture .........

The company seems to be joined at the hip with much of the state legislature .

 

[aja8888]

I guess utilities are no longer widows'and orphans' stocks.

Ha

At least not the ones in California.

 

[limeyx]

This fire is awful. According to a media piece I read, the fire started at around 6:30AM, and by noon most of the town of Paradise was already burned. That would explain how so many died, as there was no ample time for warning and evacuation. And the hilly terrain offered few roads out of the area. Just awful.

Makes me wonder if it were not for PG&E equipment or electrical wire problems, could a fire of any sort, a home fire, a car fire, or a carelessly discarded cigarette butt trigger the same devastatingly fast fire?

Or a lawnmower ? Yup...
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Accidental-fire-starter-furious-at-punishment-3200351.php

 

[Lakewood90712]

Down another $6 (25%) in first hour of trading.

 

[Lakewood90712]

Closed at near year high $48.80 on 11/6/18

Trading about $17.70 right now..........

Yesterday their bonds were trading at about 90 cents on the dollar. Bad, but not through the floor.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

My $0.37 per kwh

Wow. I knew utilities were a bit higher out there in Cali, but damn!!!

 

[aja8888]

Wow. I knew utilities were a bit higher out there in Cali, but damn!!!

That's triple what we are charged, and I thought we were high!

 

[Lakewood90712]

Wow. I knew utilities were a bit higher out there in Cali, but damn!!!

Base tier users are about 17 cents throughout the state, The raw power is relatively cheap usually well under 8 cents KW.

its the distribution charges, transmission charges, surcharges, state and local tax, climate change surcharges, global warming carbon offset fees , public purpose program fees, low income subsidy surcharge, nuclear decommission surcharge, wildfire damage surcharge..... it goes on and on.

You should see our car registration, 90 % of the fees listed on it have noting to do directly with automobile ownership and operation.

Just an example of nutty things of the high cost of living in CA.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Base tier users are about 17 cents throughout the state, The raw power is relatively cheap usually well under 8 cents KW.

its the distribution charges, transmission charges, surcharges, state and local tax, climate change surcharges, global warming carbon offset fees , public purpose program fees, low income subsidy surcharge, nuclear decommission surcharge, wildfire damage surcharge..... it goes on and on.

You should see our car registration, 90 % of the fees listed on it have noting to do directly with automobile ownership and operation.

Just an example of nutty things of the high cost of living in CA.

The listing of "nuclear decommission surcharge" makes me think of a surcharge we were paying in Georgia to BUILD two new nuclear reactors. So, they charge you to build the thing, and then charge you again to shut it down. Ah...government efficiencies at work!

 

[candrew]

The listing of "nuclear decommission surcharge" makes me think of a surcharge we were paying in Georgia to BUILD two new nuclear reactors. So, they charge you to build the thing, and then charge you again to shut it down. Ah...government efficiencies at work!

In addition, it is taxpayers - not the utility operating the nuke or its investors - that will bear the brunt for most, if not all of the costs of a power plant "accident".

 

[bjorn2bwild]

Up 40+ percent after-hours on this news.

PG&E Corp shares soared 40 percent in after-hours trade on Thursday after a report that a regulatory official told investors the agency does not want the utility to go into bankruptcy should it be found responsible for this month’s deadly wildfire in northern California.

 

[samclem]

Base tier users are about 17 cents throughout the state, The raw power is relatively cheap usually well under 8 cents KW.

its the distribution charges, transmission charges, surcharges, state and local tax, climate change surcharges, global warming carbon offset fees , public purpose program fees, low income subsidy surcharge, nuclear decommission surcharge, wildfire damage surcharge..... it goes on and on.

You should see our car registration, 90 % of the fees listed on it have noting to do directly with automobile ownership and operation.

Just an example of nutty things of the high cost of living in CA.

So, if I put solar panels on my home in CA, do I get to sell power back to the utility company at the rate that includes all these tacked-on surcharges, or do I just get the price that reflects the cost to generate (and distribute?) the power?

 

[Another Reader]

Supposedly the new law offloading the cost of the disasters onto ratepayers does not take effect until January 1st. No doubt the legislature will pass an urgency statute covering 2018.

I'm not paying for this. These people should be held responsible. Had they implemented their new plan of shutting down electrical service in high winds, this fire would not have happened. The management of PG&E should be held accountable and the stockholders should bear the cost.

 

[Another Reader]

Over 9600 homes and 260 commercial structures destroyed and 63 confirmed dead. Missing list has gone up by over 500 names as the sheriff's office reviews all the 911 calls on the day of the fire. Imagine the litigation that will follow this.

 

[Lakewood90712]

The CPUC is releasing statements about requiring PG and E to re-structure without a BK. I don't think the CPUC has the ability to force this, unless the state forces the company into receivership, and takes over the company I sure don't want any part of that from a taxpayer point of view.

The supposed source of this fire was tree branches across transmission lines in excess of 100,000 volts, and those lines are not part of the approved power curtailment plan for high winds. Link to news story https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investig...Plan-Excludes-Some-Power-Lines-500434871.html

PG and E and So Cal Edison have been in trouble in the past few years in investigations of fires for allegedly not trimming brush and trees in vicinity of transmission lines. I don't see why. Every rate increase sought for line and equipment maintenance / upgrades is / are rubber stamped and the ratepayers pay.

 

[Lakewood90712]

So, if I put solar panels on my home in CA, do I get to sell power back to the utility company at the rate that includes all these tacked-on surcharges, or do I just get the price that reflects the cost to generate (and distribute?) the power?

The net power FAQ PDF from So Cal Edison is fuzzy on that. https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect...0d-1c60c2a1fa64/NEM_FactSheet.pdf?MOD=AJPERES . This is for Edison. The other investor owned and municipal utilities have sim. regulations.

I don't have solar, but a number of forum members do have solar in CA, Maybe some will chime in.

 

[Another Reader]

Remember the gas line explosion and fire in San Bruno in 2010? Corroded pipeline that was "scheduled" to be replaced. The complacency of the regulators and the cavalier attitude of PG&E is really starting to wear on the ratepayers.

At tonight's press conference there was mention of a second point of origin for the fire. Details not yet available.

 

[meekie]

I don't have solar, but a number of forum members do have solar in CA, Maybe some will chime in.

The net metering laws in CA are very strange, and try to protect the utilities. If you were in the first 5% of people under your utility, you got much better rates, and could get cash back from the utility.
Now it's limited to credit only, but they do give you full retail credit, depending on the time of use, if it's a peak time I give energy to the utility, they give me credit for peak use. Of course, now the utilities are trying to claim there's so much solar, that most of the time that you're generating energy is non-peak, so you're seeing a lot of batteries going in too.

Back to the original story, PGE won't go bankrupt, it sounds like the customers just get to pay for the next 20 years:
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...lities-wildfire-lawsuits-brown-493986721.html

 

[rtroxel]

PG&E Stock Rises as Regulator Mulls Utility’s Future

PGE stock is up almost 40% this morning.

According to the Wall Street Journal, "...California’s energy regulator pledged a review of the company, including exploring a breakup of the utility owner, and said it would seek to shed light on its safety practices."

Here's the full story:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pg-e-stock-rises-as-regulator-mulls-utilitys-future-1542380905

Roy in New Mexico