Here's a puzzler

[SecondCor521]

My 19DS is in his last semester of high school. He has already received an offer of admission from a very good university. He has accepted that offer and they're planning on him showing up in August.

Only problem is, he may not pass his last semester of English. In this case, I'm not sure if he will actually graduate from high school.

With his older brother, I believe the university he attended required him to prove that he graduated from high school. I know some schools check final semester transcripts to make sure the grades stay in a reasonable range.

With 19DS, his school has given him a list - both in a printed mailer and in an online checklist - of about 20 things to do before starting in the fall - submit his immunization record, pick out his dorm room, etc. Notably absent from both places is any requirement to send his last semester transcript or prove he graduated.

Has anyone here gone to a school that lets you not graduate high school? Other than telling him to buzz off if they find out, which is obviously a possible outcome, what are the risks to him if he doesn't officially graduate? Is there some rule or law saying universities are supposed to check this stuff?

Currently my thought is if he doesn't pass English, I'll suggest he attend summer school and get that last credit there. He might also get an incomplete from the instructor and finish it that way, but I haven't suggested either of these to him.

 

[ivinsfan]

A quick consult with Mr Google, tells me that Yes, you can go to college without a high school diploma. Not all colleges but some.

Have you searched the website of the college he was admitted to?

Sounds like there is more to this story. Good Luck to you and your DS, whatever the problem is.

 

[ivinsfan]

Can he hedge his bets and take the GED?

You'd think it would be easier to just suck it up and pass the English class

 

[SecondCor521]

You'd think it would be easier to just suck it up and pass the English class

Well yeah, that's the first option we suggested to him. Repeatedly.

@ivinsfan, I just did and I found a page via Google that says he has to submit his final transcript. One never knows if the page is a zombie page though.

He has ADHD and has been learning how to manage his medication over the past several years. He also procrastinates and doesn't understand (yet) the wisdom of having a safety margin.

 

[CardsFan]

Well yeah, that's the first option we suggested to him. Repeatedly.

@ivinsfan, I just did and I found a page via Google that says he has to submit his final transcript. One never knows if the page is a zombie page though.

He has ADHD and has been learning how to manage his medication over the past several years. He also procrastinates and doesn't understand (yet) the wisdom of having a safety margin.

With all due respect, I think he may be heading to learn the wisdom of a safety margin the hard way. It has been years since our DS went to college, but I am certain graduation WAS a requirement for admission. You might be able to apply for a hardship extension to complete a course, but the concept of just pretending it happened, and hoping they won't check is not a good idea.

 

[ivinsfan]

With all due respect, I think he may be heading to learn the wisdom of a safety margin the hard way. It has been years since our DS went to college, but I am certain graduation WAS a requirement for admission. You might be able to apply for a hardship extension to complete a course, but the concept of just pretending it happened, and hoping they won't check is not a good idea.

Hold on, DD is checking and verifying...no one is pretending..

 

[ocean view]

I suggest you call the admissions office and ask “what if...?” I suspect that no HS diploma means no college admission. However, if it is just a “less than passing” grade in one class, they may ask for a written explanation and he has a 50/50 chance.

 

[Texas Proud]

What university? Maybe someone will find it for you...


BUT, any good university will require a HS diploma or GED... and some will probably not accept the GED as they have plenty of 'better' students with high GPAs with a HS diploma...




Just checked for UT and it says that a home school or GED will need to provide more info and the uni will rank them... if you are lower ranked you do not get in...


But, the transcript is required and is sent from the school... so, if he does not graduate I would bet he will not be attending uni....

 

[haha]

Has anyone here gone to a school that lets you not graduate high school?

Neither of my children ever attended, let alone graduated from high school. Same with my former wife. She graduated from Radcliffe, and both my sons from UW. US high school is often a negative experience from every point of view.

Ha

 

[Sunset]

You'd think it would be easier to just suck it up and pass the English class

Nah,.... it's easier to slip the English teacher $20,000

But maybe OP's child would be better in some vocation with less studying required.
I have to wonder how the child plans to pass University, when they cannot finish high school.

 

[njhowie]

In general, offers for admission are subject to finishing out the school year and receiving grades commensurate with those provided in the application for admission. Receiving the high school diploma is generally a requirement. On the application, your child likely indicated he would be graduating from high school. If he does not graduate, then he provided false information and an offer of admission could be revoked.

If it were my child in this situation, I would not suggest summer school - I would require it. It may wreck summer plans, but you do what you have to do.

To prevent the situation from happening, what I would suggest to my child is that we immediately schedule a meeting with the instructor to discuss what is necessary between now and the end of the term to pass, and what else could possibly be done to get some extra credit to assist in pulling the grade up. Once that is on the table, we'd agree that it will get done, and child would drop all extra-curricula activities in the interim to make it happen.

I graduated high school a year early. In my home state this could not be done unless 12th grade English was also completed. I did this by attending summer school following 11th grade.

I was in a class primarily with those who had flunked during the regular school year, and it was well-known that the class was therefore somewhat easier. It wasn't bad at all.

Do not opt for not receiving the high school diploma. If for some unforeseen reason he leaves the university before completion of the undergrad degree, he will need the diploma for whatever comes next and the only alternative at that time will be getting a GED.

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/articles/775/

 

[njhowie]

Neither of my children ever attended, let alone graduated from high school. Same with my former wife. She graduated from Radcliffe, and both my sons from UW. US high school is often a negative experience from every point of view.

Ha

I can appreciate this perspective, as my daughter has gone a similar route. However, home-schooled and alternative-schooled kids present that they are such. That is obviously not the case in OP's situation.

Radcliffe and the Ivies are in their own category. I know of at least one program based on capability where transcripts, diplomas and standardized testing are not prerequisites for admission. This is the path daughter has taken and it's worked out extremely well.

 

[latexman]

Summer school is an option, IF a suitable English course is offered. Sometimes it is not. Then, look to your local community college(s).

 

[zinger1457]

Has he discussed this with the English teacher and offer to do some extra work so that he can at least pass the class?

 

[Chuckanut]

If he can't find in himself whatever is needed to finish a HS English class, what will happen in college when he runs into a demanding class?

I am not meaning to be critical of your DS, but I would be concerned about how he will handle the increasing demands and independence of college.

 

[ivinsfan]

If he can't find in himself whatever is needed to finish a HS English class, what will happen in college when he runs into a demanding class?

I am not meaning to be critical of your DS, but I would be concerned about how he will handle the increasing demands and independence of college.

The OP has referenced this before saying he prefers his DS to tackle the problem and make it right. I will say I've seen other parents micro manage their kids life to the ultimate degree and it never ends well.

The path the OP is taking is the right path, but as a parent it's harder to take that path and then it is to step in "fix" it for your child.

 

[SheitlQueen]

Well yeah, that's the first option we suggested to him. Repeatedly.
He also procrastinates and doesn't understand (yet) the wisdom of having a safety margin.

Given this and the fact he doesn't seem inclined to put in the work to pass the English course, perhaps going to college at this time is not a good idea.

 

[Bir48die]

Given this and the fact he doesn't seem inclined to put in the work to pass the English course, perhaps going to college at this time is not a good idea.

+1

 

[pj.mask]

Given this and the fact he doesn't seem inclined to put in the work to pass the English course, perhaps going to college at this time is not a good idea.

I’d agree. If the kid were posting here would be different story but it’s the parents. College is 100% about identifying where you need to work and putting in the effort independently.

I have a hard time evaluating what to do if you tell the kid the importance and consequences but get no action on their part. Not something I can relate to in myself or young kids before the age of reason.

 

[kgtest]

Lol, I remember striking a deal with several teachers to make graduation. One was a gym teacher, one was a science teacher and the last was a civics teacher. They all interdependently made me deals that would get me passing grades... and I honored them. The civics teacher got his final research paper delivered almost an entire semester after I had the class and literally a week before school doors closed for the year.

Teacher's are human too. Have your son face his deamons, and level set with himself and his teacher. He might surprise himself. Hard to believe I was actually failing elective PE, but I was...and I think looking back it was likely because I was working weekend graveyard shift and was super tired and hungry, so instead of physically exhausting myself in elective PhyEd (yes I used my risk based analysis) I headed to lunch early. I learned a lot about integrity my senior year.

 

[ivinsfan]

Lol, I remember striking a deal with several teachers to make graduation. One was a gym teacher, one was a science teacher and the last was a civics teacher. They all interdependently made me deals that would get me passing grades... and I honored them. The civics teacher got his final research paper delivered almost an entire semester after I had the class and literally a week before school doors closed for the year.

Teacher's are human too. Have your son face his deamons, and level set with himself and his teacher. He might surprise himself. Hard to believe I was actually failing elective PE, but I was...and I think looking back it was likely because I was working weekend graveyard shift and was super tired and hungry, so instead of physically exhausting myself in elective PhyEd (yes I used my risk based analysis) I headed to lunch early. I learned a lot about integrity my senior year.

This is a good comment because hopefully the teachers care about the kids and want them to move on in a positive manner. It also doesn't reflect well on the school when kids go the entire course and end up with no diploma.

 

[SecondCor521]

Thanks all for the various replies. They pretty much confirm what I was thinking.

I don't feel like doing the multiple quoting thing, but here are some responses to some of the comments:

@CardsFan, I think the hard way is the only way this particular child will learn. Which is part of the reason we're taking this approach with him. We "micromanaged" our oldest over the finish line in high school, and all we really had done was pushed the reckoning down the road. Oldest ended up going to college when he wasn't ready maturity-wise and to a place where he wasn't happy, ended up dropping out and working for a while. Now oldest has matured and is back at university getting straight A's and is pretty happy.

@Texas Proud, I'd rather not say the university. I'm capable of reading their website and searching it. As noted, the official pages that they point us to don't say anything about the HS diploma, but a google-searched page mentions requiring one. We certainly could call them and ask, but at this point there is still a decent chance he'll pass, so I'd rather not go that route unless necessary.

@Sunset, it's more of a character flaw or a maturity issue than it is academic ability. The kid is otherwise getting decent grades (3.something) at an international IB high school. He got a 32 on the ACT and a 1400 on the SAT. This is sort of why we're taking a hands-off approach with him, though - if he doesn't figure it out now, we don't think he'll figure it out at university - which is halfway across the country and where his parents and his teachers won't follow up on him as much as in high school.

@njhowie, lots of good thoughts there. He doesn't have any specific summer plans except to work, and there is an "English 12 B" offered through the public schools, which he could certainly take and probably pass. At this point I don't know what his home high school will say about if that would get him the HS diploma.

As far as the meeting with the teacher and making a contract, we've suggested that to him and he has tried to do that. He claims the teacher is being vague about exactly what needs to be completed to get a passing grade - I suspect the teacher is hedging in an effort to get DS to do more than the bare minimum, which is something we parents support. The vagueness bothers my son, because he wants an "if X then Y" guarantee. I'm not particularly sympathetic to him on that point, but I've suggested that he get some other teachers and coordinators involved if he's not getting satisfaction from the teacher - and again, we've suggested just doing all the work and seeing what happens.

@latexman, thanks for the comment about community college; I wouldn't have thought of that option. Hopefully he'll pass in the first place or be able to do summer school, but there is a CC that would be an additional option.

@Chuckanut, your comments are exactly why we're letting him work this one out on his own (with encouragement and advice and strategy suggestions from us, but not standing behind him while he does his homework type of stuff).

I am probably going to stop by the school and ask one of his teachers (who is also the DP coordinator) what's likely to happen. Not to intercede, and not to helicopter parent, but just to find out now what the likely outcomes are and what the possible remedies would be. After school is out I'm imagining that getting access to these people is more difficult.

Again, thanks all. At this point there's still stuff in progress where he may pull this off. With our chosen strategy of letting him address it himself, and things still up in the air at this moment, I find myself wondering what, if anything, I should do other than encourage him verbally and fret a lot internally. So I guess this whole thread is sort of just cathartic fussing on my part, with a tiny bit of "am I missing anything?" (which mostly we're not.)

 

[imoldernu]

No advice, but one year does not a whole lifetime make.

My own youngest, while very smart, decided that his time would be better spent outside of school. He was tired of school. The interim year, before going to college was an unequaled learning experience. He did go back to school the following year and is happily settled in life @age 50.

Edit... just read your post. I think you're on the right track. Best wishes for the right outcome.

 

[ivinsfan]

FWIW I think you are doing exactly the right thing. I'm also impressed that you and your EX are working together on this problem. You're good parents you are thinking the long game for your DS, which is what's most important.

 

[SecondCor521]

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.

I'm fortunate in that I had some hiccups in my own life and know that I turned out fine, and my oldest has had a hiccup or two and he's now on a good track. This middle child has a ton of potential and will end up on a good track too I'm fairly sure - it's just a matter of how many hiccups he'll have.

(My youngest is a girl and for the most part she seems to be able to learn the lessons the easy way. I appreciate that about her.)