Recession's Mark on Millennials

But the subject of debate was just tuition... not total cost.

LOL! said:

Well, unless I have problems with reading comprehension, I think one of the schools with annual tuition less than one-fifth of $51,950 turns out to be "THE" Ohio State University unless you are trying to catch me with alternative facts.

I've paid for two millennials to go to college. One of them graduated from one of those schools with purported Cost of Attendance of about $70,000. The other is getting through a school with $20,000 CoA. I am keenly aware of the cost of a college education because I've paid for 3 of them. I am keenly aware of the choices that are available, too.

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Al in Ohio said:

Over $25 grand would be only half, not one fifth. So yes. Let's call it comprehension failure rather than alternate facts. Cause facts IS facts!

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LOL! said:

Because they agreed they had a problem with reading comprehension. You know it takes all kinds to have fun on the internet, so everyone else already saw the problem with someone's reading comprehension, so there is no point in making them look worse than they already do.

It was hilarious though to see the tuition for "THE" Ohio State University, wasn't it?

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Had to go back and read it LOL, but I think he was saying you had the problem with comprehension, not that he did.... now, maybe I am not reading it correctly, but I think I am.... maybe Al can chime in and answer if he was comprehending wrong or you were...

Texas Proud said:

Had to go back and read it LOL, but I think he was saying you had the problem with comprehension, not that he did.... now, maybe I am not reading it correctly, but I think I am.... maybe Al can chime in and answer if he was comprehending wrong or you were...

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Of course he doesn't think he has a problem. Why would he? He can't recognize the problem in the first place, but it seems the rest of the readers of this thread see the problem. Don't be so harsh on him. He can't help it, so let's stop picking on him.

The OP started with a comparison of millennials who are already working to the earlier generations when at the same age. The working millennials are not doing as well as their parents did, and it was suggested that the recent recessions are the cause.

The thread then migrated to college costs and the rise in tuition. It is indisputable that tuition has gone up far more than inflation. And I found the statistics on student loans on the Federal Reserve site. It looks bleak. Over the last 10 years, the student loan balance has grown 3 times, and is now at more than 1.4 trillion. I do not see any effect of the Great Recession of 2007-2008 here; the chart just ramps straight up.

Heavier debt for a lower starting salary? Details are at https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLOAS.

College costs today are insane these days. I worked FT and went to school at night, taking advantage of employer tuition reimbursement program. Worked 50-55 hours a week to secure much needed OT. Went straight into MBA after undergrad, then had a heart attack (go figure) from burning the candle at both ends for too long. That was many years ago. Parlayed all that into a great job(s) at mega-corp and retiring this year at 60. No student loans helped this single income family attain FI.

Now, my dad, he really had it made....
Dual major undergrad - economics and climate change. Most of us would know these as the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl.
He went on to get his grad degree in conflict resolution with international travel. Otherwise known as WWll (Pacific theater), with stops at tropical paradises like, among others, Guadalcanal.
I think each generation has its own unique challenges; and those challenges might be difficult for preceding generations to understand.

FYI - it was at Guad - the US military decided to quit taking POW's (Pacific theater) due to the atrocities inflicted on captured/surrendering GI's. In Europe, war correspondents (like our dear friend, the late Andy Rooney) often traveled with front line units; it the Pacific, not so much - see first sentence of this paragraph.

purplesky said:

And please old timers in this community please don't tell stories about big boy pants and walking 10 miles to school. Seriously, don't compare your decade to 2017.

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Who said we were walking ten miles? I thought we lived in the field across the street from the school, in the open, next to an outhouse. Did you not read the thread?

NW-Bound said:

The OP started with a comparison of millennials who are already working to the earlier generations when at the same age. The working millennials are not doing as well as their parents did, and it was suggested that the recent recessions are the cause.

The thread then migrated to college costs and the rise in tuition. It is indisputable that tuition has gone up far more than inflation. And I found the statistics on student loans on the Federal Reserve site. It looks bleak. Over the last 10 years, the student loan balance has grown 3 times, and is now at more than 1.4 trillion. I do not see any effect of the Great Recession of 2007-2008 here; the chart just ramps straight up.

Heavier debt for a lower starting salary? Details are at https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SLOAS.

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Yes you are correct. Its all about wages. They have been flat for 30 to 40 years and also workers are paying more for health insurance and pensions slowly started disappearing adding even more costs to workers to save for retirement.

People are focusing on the cost of college when the real story is flat wages and the lower standard of living for the average American.

Most College grads cannot even make a living wage and if I understand correctly(which I do) corporate America has trillions in profit parked offshore.

Every discussion about this economy will point to flat wages over the last 40 years.

pb4uski said:

Last I knew, $10,037 was less that one-fifth of $51,950, so why is LOL letting Al off the hook?

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Because while he stated "tuition" what he meant was total cost to attend including manditory fees.

JoeWras said:

Who said we were walking ten miles? I thought we lived in the field across the street from the school, in the open, next to an outhouse. Did you not read the thread?

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People often reject the facts and statistics of the low paying job economy that has been handed to the millennial generation and it gets really annoying.

Its a vibe that some people put out.


Its a denial (arrogance) about our current American economy and somehow people just want to compare their good old days to now.

This current generation will not do as well as their parents and thats not saying much.

I realize people get tired off negative stories about millennials and the low pay Gig economy but this is what this generation has been handed.

Texas Proud said:

Kinda see the difference in the first two and yours I do... ?



Tuition for the University of Texas is around $10K.... for tuition... which is, BTW, less than 1/5th which is what was mentioned... so you now have at least two who are less than 1/5th...



Cost for UT....
$22,012

Texas Residents

• Tuition: $9,806
• Books and Supplies: $750
• Other Fees: $0
• Room and Board: $11,456

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Too bad that is not correct. This is CURRENT from the college website:

TUITION AND EXPENSES for UT
Cost of Attendance In-state: $26,626 Out-of-state: $52,422
Tuition and Fees In-state: $10,110 Out-of-state: $35,906
Room and Board $11,456
Books and Supplies $750
Other Expenses $4,310

Without room and board your cost to attend is $10,110 in state PLUS fees of $4,310 = $14,420 just to take a class. The "other " school the OP referred to has a tuition that includes all fees. If you want to compare apples to apples you have to understand the pricing system. For "State" schools, there is a base rate tuition and they hide the other instruction based fees as "other". In the case of UT the other is $4,310. You can live at home and cut out as much optional stuff you like, but if you don't pay that "other expense fee" at UT or any other state school that uses that line item, they will drop you from school before your first exam.

Here's the link:University of Texas at Austin Tuition, Costs and Financial Aid - CollegeData College Profile

It might be interesting to see what the UT web site folks thinks "Other expenses" includes. I think most often it is transportation to/from college a few times a year and/or health insurance. I know my child doesn't pay those fees because he is on our health insurance and does not fly first class to Austin a few times a year.

LOL! said:

It might be interesting to see what the UT web site folks thinks "Other expenses" includes. I think most often it is transportation to/from college a few times a year and/or health insurance. I know my child doesn't pay those fees because he is on our health insurance and does not fly first class to Austin a few times a year.

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The "other cost and fees" are tacked on by the university to cover everything from "additional lab and instructional fees by department" to "use of the student union" etc. Doesn't matter if you kid doesn't ever step foot in the student union. These cost are still basically tuition, but it's like buying a new car and the car costs x, but then you find the line item that says "$950 vehicle destination charge". Other higher priced private schools don't break it out. They just charge one cost and call it "tuition". Its all the same in the end. If you have a kid in school at a state institution currently, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Here is a link to fees with descriptions:
https://admissions.utexas.edu/tuition/cost-of-attendance

My son's lab fees, student union dues, and required fees are included in the actual "Tuition & fees". I have the exact dollar amount handy that I paid for the Spring 2017 semester of all tuition AND fees (including lab fees, student union, gym fees, ID fees, etc) and it is about $5100, so those "Other expenses" you reported don't jibe with my personal experience nor do they jibe with the explanations on the UTexas web site.

Yes, I can believe your experience is different and agree that your child's college nickels and dimes you to death.

My main point is that there is a lot of misinformation about college expenses out on the internet. Folks who want to make college look more expensive than it has to be can find plenty of web sites to help them make that claim.

LOL! said:

I have the exact dollar amount handy that I paid for the Spring 2017 semester of all tuition AND fees (including lab fees, student union, gym fees, ID fees, etc) and it is about $5100...

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+1

My oldest grandson's tab for tuition and fees for the 2017 Spring semester at UT Austin was $4,980 for 12 semester hours.

JoeWras said:

Who said we were walking ten miles? I thought we lived in the field across the street from the school, in the open, next to an outhouse. Did you not read the thread?

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Well, if you live close to the school you do not need an outhouse and can go the library that opens 24 hr.

There's a guy who attained some notoriety a few years ago, when he was working on a master degree at Purdue while living in a van kept in a more remote parking lot of the school. He could not keep quiet, and leaked some info on the Web which then went viral. The school eventually traced to him. It was a hilarious story.

This guy is a really interesting character, and has had more escapades than that. His name is Ken Ilgunas, and he has written some books and a blog. I have not read any of his books though I mean to, but have read all of his blogs. Fascinating.

Al in Ohio said:

The "other cost and fees" are tacked on by the university to cover everything from "additional lab and instructional fees by department" to "use of the student union" etc. Doesn't matter if you kid doesn't ever step foot in the student union. These cost are still basically tuition, but it's like buying a new car and the car costs x, but then you find the line item that says "$950 vehicle destination charge". Other higher priced private schools don't break it out. They just charge one cost and call it "tuition". Its all the same in the end. If you have a kid in school at a state institution currently, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

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Others have already corrected you... but I would have said the same since my son is going to UT right now... and our tuition and fees were a tad over $5K for this semester.... looking at the website I used, it was for a prior year... still less than 1/5th...


Now, if the person who compared cost said it was total costs then that is where the error was... it was said that tuition could be had for much less, and many showed you... but, I also showed that total cost can be much less... like half...

If you're going to include other fees, then you need to adjust both the numerator and denominator.

IOW are we sure that the denominator includes both tuition and fees?

Post your solutions and advice to the new millennials here... http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/millennials-advice-to-break-through-the-road-blocks-of-high-cost-of-education-85509.html#post1841016

Specific challenge sent out to Texas Proud and LOL.

NW-Bound said:

Well, if you live close to the school you do not need an outhouse and can go the library that opens 24 hr.

There's a guy who attained some notoriety a few years ago, when he was working on a master degree at Purdue while living in a van kept in a more remote parking lot of the school. He could not keep quiet, and leaked some info on the Web which then went viral. The school eventually traced to him. It was a hilarious story.

This guy is a really interesting character, and has had more escapades than that. His name is Ken Ilgunas, and he has written some books and a blog. I have not read any of his books though I mean to, but have read all of his blogs. Fascinating.

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A correction: I now recall that Ken Ilgunas was attending Duke, not Purdue, while living in a van.