Running out of money vs. Too much money but couldn't enjoy it

[aja8888]

Scraping along to a short, but frugal retirement

Not a case of not having enough or leaving too much on the table:

I grew up in a poor, but hard working family. Dad was a coal miner in PA until the mines shut down and he went in the Navy. I was an infant at the time and was living with Mom in a coal company house with grandma.

After he returned, we moved to CT as he found a job in a record factory making 78 LPs (he ran a press). Mom did not work at the time as I was small and a young sister was just born. The record factory shut down and we moved. Dad had a 3rd grade education but somehow got a decent job at a machine manufacturing plant running a large open side planer. Somehow he learned enough math in order to set up the steel castings that were to be machined.

Dad and mom had another child, my youngest sister, to qualify for entry into a housing project where rents were cheaper. We were there until Dad lost his job and somehow ended up working for the Post Office (maybe because he was a WWII combat veteran).

The only real message I got from him about the time I was entering high school was to go to a school where you can lean a trade, which I did. Connecticut had a Regional Technical High School system and I made it into one and specialized in mechanical drafting. That got me a good job right out of high school.

He retired at 62 with a small Post Office pension and he actually had bought a dilapidated three story house in Waterbury, CT, fixed it up, and rented out two floors. Between the government pension and the collected rent, they were actually doing OK. We children were on our own by then, and I had finished college (paid for by me). My sisters never went to college and married into similar situations. Both worked low paying jobs.

Dad got sick and passed away three years later and really did not have much retirement. Mom had a stroke about that time and moved in with one sister, Mom having to quit her low paying job. We kids sold the old house and gave the proceeds, about $25,000, to Sis to take care of Mom, which she did for 10 more years.

Neither of my parents had great lives or had a retirement of leisure. Of course, the funds weren't there and Dad had done all he could to raise us kids and give us the gift of LBYM and a solid work ethic. I fully believe the work ethic passed along to me from my parents has been instilled in my daughter as she has those same qualities.

 

[cyber888]

Wow! Great stories. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Major Tom]

I've never really said much to them since it is their life choice but that's not living IMO. It's existing.

Perhaps there is a vivid and varied life going on inside their heads, and in the shared mental space they cohabit? Not for everyone though, that's for sure.

 

[bclover]

So my story is fairly familiar. Dh and I saved and lbom's often putting stuff off to "retirement" or not spending because of worrying about what would happen when we turned 90.

He dies leaving me a widow at 50!!

I no longer give a rat's patooie about what is going to happen when I'm 90. I'm spending. I'm traveling, I'm splurging.

 

[cyber888]

So my story is fairly familiar. Dh and I saved and lbom's often putting stuff off to "retirement" or not spending because of worrying about what would happen when we turned 90.

He dies leaving me a widow at 50!!

I no longer give a rat's patooie about what is going to happen when I'm 90. I'm spending. I'm traveling, I'm splurging.

Sorry to hear that. But glad you are traveling and splurging - enjoying.

 

[Dreamer]

Running_Man, thanks for sharing your dad's story. He might not have had a lot of money, but it sounds like he had a very full life. I'm sure many people missed him when he died. I agree that it is better to have more money than less, but also feel that one can have riches, without being wealthy.

 

[swakyaby]

Too much money, died too soon.

My parents were a LBYM couple having been born during the Great Depression. He was an engineer and she was a school teacher, with 4 children. We all lived frugally on her teacher's salary, and he invested his income. When they both retired, they both had pensions and an undisclosed amount of savings, a paid off home, and a half acre property in Kauai, HI.

Within 4 years of retirement, my father was diagnosed with colon cancer and passed a year later. My mother developed obvious signs of dementia during this time, so my brother stepped in. I feel sad that they had amassed what turned out to be $3.5 million in mutual fund savings which neither are able to enjoy today.

I do sense I spend significantly more than my brothers and sisters. But I want a better balance of enjoying the fruits of my labors vs future financial security.

 

[RAE]

I had a friend who died 3 years ago now, age 58, of liver disease (he had a liver transplant at the very end, but died before he was able to leave the hospital). This guy (who was single, never married) did not act like he had a lot of money, but I knew he was okay, as he had retired about 5 years before that, and devoted his time after that to causes he was passionate about (some of the same causes I am involved with, so we got pretty close). He told no one (that I know of, anyway) that his liver was failing, and I was very surprised to get a call when he was in the hospital, getting the liver transplant. He also never mentioned his finances to me, but after he died, two of the organizations we both belonged to received rather large bequests from his estate. Apparently he was not close to his family (he never spoke much about them to me), so he left essentially everything to the organizations he believed in. I often think about the guy.....not so much about the money he left to our organizations, but how it is so sad that his life was cut so short, when he had so much left to contribute. Considering what was left in his estate, he could have spent lavishly on himself for the last several years of his life (as he apparently knew his liver condition was serious), but he was not interested in doing that. To see him and talk to him, he was just a normal, middle-class type guy........did not spend his money on expensive houses, cars, or things like that. I don't think he had any interest in those kinds of material possessions.

 

[robnplunder]

YOLO = You Only Live Once

... which is why I am retiring at the end of this year at 1 day short of age 54. My motto similar to YOLO is LISTYD = "life is short then you die. "

A coworker passed away at age 60, another at similar age. They were still in the company database when they passed. I don't want to be that person.

I can live rich, and I can live poor. But I'd rather enjoy the savings I've accumulated than die being a multi-millionaire.

 

[NW-Bound]

At my former megacorp, they used to post funeral service info of workers who passed away. Sometimes, that was what I saw on Monday morning coming to work. Among friends, we asked each other if anyone knew that guy. And then, occasionally there was an ambulance rolling right into the work campus in the middle of the day; someone's ticker decided to stop.

Oh boy. What a motivation to get the hell outta there!

 

[Lucantes]

My motto similar to YOLO is LISTYD = "life is short then you die. "
I can live rich, and I can live poor. But I'd rather enjoy the savings I've accumulated than die being a multi-millionaire.

+1
14 months left and then my wife and I are done at 50, many people working overseas here are saying we are crazy for leaving the extra 10 years (ER is available at 50 from the company but full retirement is at 60) of pension and 401K and salary on the table with the company (this equates to several million $'s) but once we have enough for ER then why would I want to give up the years in trade for the extra money that we probably would never spend anyways.

 

[Sunset]

So my story is fairly familiar. Dh and I saved and lbom's often putting stuff off to "retirement" or not spending because of worrying about what would happen when we turned 90.

He dies leaving me a widow at 50!!

I no longer give a rat's patooie about what is going to happen when I'm 90. I'm spending. I'm traveling, I'm splurging.

Sounds like fun !
Just be sure to keep enough so you won't be eating cat food at 80.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I like bargain hunting and looking for ways to lower our overhead without lowering our lifestyle, so we think we live fairly well without having to spend a lot. We're okay leaving the rest to the kids and our favorite charities.

I have had time for a lot of navel gazing lately and I've used some of it to watch videos and read books on positive psychology, and for us at least I think the hedonic treadmill does hold true, at least in terms of additional spending on discretionary expenses at this point in our lives. I've been trying some of the ideas in the Tedtalk video link below on positive psychology action items that do permanently increase happiness levels, including meditation and keeping a gratitude journal:

https://www.ted.com/talks/shawn_achor_the_happy_secret_to_better_work?language=en#t-19174

 

[robnplunder]

+1
14 months left and then my wife and I are done at 50, many people working overseas here are saying we are crazy for leaving the extra 10 years (ER is available at 50 from the company but full retirement is at 60) of pension and 401K and salary on the table with the company (this equates to several million $'s) but once we have enough for ER then why would I want to give up the years in trade for the extra money that we probably would never spend anyways.

This was the reason that finally stopped me from doing OMY.

 

[tmm99]

My mother contracted lung cancer when she turned 66 and my father was 70, my father had taken a buyout of the pension and within the 5 years of being retired they went through all the money. After my mother passed my father lived on only social security and was $15,000 in debt from medical and burial bills.

He never complained about his lot in life and never would take any money. He kept his car in good shape and lived with my brother for a few years before renting an apartment near a very nice county park. Rent was low and he lived on the equivalent today of $1,600 a month. He spent his time walking 5 miles each day, talking with people in the park, always keeping a pack of dog treats with him to give to people walking their dogs and working to keep the walking paths clear for everyone else. He always walked with a foldable pruning saw and shears to trim any wayward vegetation.

He taught me having little money is nothing to fear, it is always possible to make do and enjoy life with what you have, but life is easier with more money that is for sure. Even a few hundred dollars a month would have made a huge difference to him. He died at age 87 with $4,000 in the bank and debt free. In my entire life I never once heard him complain about being poor nor about it being unfair that someone else had more money than he. Because I think he had little money he had much time for walking the 5 miles daily and enjoying the county park, this in turn kept him healthy and active throughout his retirement.

I hope I am able to experience the good parts of his retirement with at least a little more cushion to make it through the years.

Thank you for sharing your story. So much I could learn from your dad.



Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Lucantes]

This was the reason that finally stopped me from doing OMY.

+1
My wife and I just reviewed where we were relating to ER this weekend, as we were trying to determine if we could leave in 2016 (would that be OLY: One Less Year? ) instead of 2017. Unfortunately the numbers worked out that we could, but it would be close and the hit for just the original 1 year that we had already planned for to 2017 would cost us in the neighborhood of $.5M and we decided to just stick with the original plan of the end of the 1Q 2017.....it was a really close decision though!

 

[Danmar]

Our life spans are uncertain and that makes retirement planning such an issue. It is sad when people die early and don't get to enjoy the results of LBYM. But I don't think there is a rational alternative to expecting your lifespan to be "average". Now you can tweak this a bit based on family history, current health, and activity level, but it will still be a crap shoot. Couple this with the idea that running out is worse than leaving a little on the table(given away), probably provides an incentive to be somewhat conservative. Thus the inevitability of anecdotes such as above.
I just don't see any rational alternative to a fairly conservative plan based on reasonable life expectancies? Obviously, as you age, flexibility in spending can help avoid extreme cases. But for most people aging and flexibility don't exactly go hand in hand.

 

[bclover]

Sounds like fun !
Just be sure to keep enough so you won't be eating cat food at 80.

I think for the short term I'll be one of those who is still "tweaking" her plans. It's been 3 years since the "old guy", as I affectionately called him lost his battle with cancer and this is really the first year where I think I wasn't kinda in a "black funk" of grief.

Then since hubby took care of most of the investments, I've been taking the time to learn how to handle it myself (yes guys I'm one of the evil people who has a FP, right now it's a good decision for me. I do foresee it changing soon but for right now I'm happy with that).

Interestingly enough the only major financial decision has been to retire next year. I hate my job so it was a no-brainer once I ran the numbers a hundred different ways and still came out decent.

LOL, I'm by nature a pretty conservative person, outside of a few "vices". at my current spending level firecalc has me leaving 3 mil bucks to some one if I croak at 90. may have to get that Portuguese pool boy.

 

[Runner]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually start out with anything like a reasonable retirement income and then "run out of money" in the sense of being evicted from their homes, unable to buy food, or unable to obtain medical care. I see plenty of people obsessing about this possibility as though it were a realistic fear, but I don't actually see it happening. Large segments of our society want us to obsess about this because it keeps our noses to the grindstone and keeps the economy operating the way those segments would like it to operate (i.e., for their benefit, not ours). If everyone got wise to the game, the economy those segments know and love would collapse.

If you reach 85 and find yourself entirely dependent on assorted forms of welfare and charity - well, so what? I am surrounded by unemployed and not-interested-in-working 30, 40 and 50-year-olds who are entirely dependent on assorted forms of welfare and charity, and their lives actually don't look much different from mine.

Yes, any of us could die 6 months into retirement, but we could likewise have died 6 months after birth or 6 months after marriage or 6 months after making our first hole in one - does anyone plan his or her life on the basis of this fact? I plan to review my retirement situation every 5 years to make sure I am in reasonable shape for the next 5 years, but I am not obsessing about whether I will have enough to maintain my present lifestyle at 96 or might die 2 years into my 5-year plan and leave money on the table for my wife and stepdaughter that I might have blown on golf vacations if I had known what was coming.

 

[hausfrau]

DH and I both grew up in large families where money was carefully watched and often tight. We didn't go on vacations, do extra-curriculars that cost money, go out to eat, etc.

Today we live a somewhat modest lifestyle given our net worth and income. However, I feel like I'm living in luxury! We can send our DD to a good school, go out to eat when we want (it only ends up being a couple times a month, just because it's easier/healthier to cook at home) and not have to worry about juggling bills every month.

I just can't imagine spending gobs of cash to make our lives better, when they are already so great. I'm not sure what we should be spending money on. A bigger house is just more space we don't need that would have to be cleaned. And it seems wasteful to trade in perfectly good cars or buy clothes when we already have plenty in our closets.

We would like to pass money on to DD, especially if she has children (maybe for a house down payment, college funds, etc.). If we end up having a lot of excess money, I could also see gifting money to my nieces and nephews and supporting charitable causes.

 

[mystang52]

I realize this is not directly to the OP's question but I gotta tell this somewhat sad story about my father. He died at 91, and was in reasonably good health for all but the last year. He and his wife (my mom died many years ago) had a comfortable and overall happy retirement.
My father was beyond-passionate about art. He worked in blue collar jobs to raise his family, but painted and restored damaged art pieces in his retirement. He always wanted to go to Italy but felt it was too expensive.
A few years ago DW and I went to Italy, and we both fell in love with it, especially Florence. I actually cried at one point, thinking about my Dad and how he would have been in absolute Heaven had he made the trip and seen what we had seen there. He didn't die broke or too rich, but this was money he should have spent.

 

[NW-Bound]

My father died early at the age of 73, and his few years of retirement were not all that great due to complications from kidney failure. But through his working years he and my mother did quite a bit of domestic and overseas traveling. Had he waited for retirement, he would have missed out.

 

[oldphd]

LOL, I'm by nature a pretty conservative person, outside of a few "vices". at my current spending level firecalc has me leaving 3 mil bucks to some one if I croak at 90. may have to get that Portuguese pool boy.

Get two, they're cheap!

 

[Walt34]

I just can't imagine spending gobs of cash to make our lives better, when they are already so great. I'm not sure what we should be spending money on. A bigger house is just more space we don't need that would have to be cleaned. And it seems wasteful to trade in perfectly good cars or buy clothes when we already have plenty in our closets.

That's about where we are too. A round-the-world cruise was never a goal and even if we won one in a drawing or something I'm not sure we'd even want it.

We have more than either of us had growing up so from our perspective we're doing fine. My pickup truck is 12 years old and has 94k miles on it and everything works, so what would a new one do that this one doesn't? For a pickup 94k is just broken in. We can go out to eat a couple/three times a month if we want, which most times we don't, and so on.

Although DW did [-]nag[/-] encourage me to buy new jeans recently because the old ones had holes in them. But they were only little holes so I wasn't in a hurry, waited for a sale.

 

[NW-Bound]

Although DW did [-]nag[/-] encourage me to buy new jeans recently because the old ones had holes in them. But they were only little holes so I wasn't in a hurry, waited for a sale.

No way I would throw away a pair of jeans that is well fit and broken in simply because of some holes. Enter the iron-on patches from Walmart. That will give them at least another 75,000 miles.

And by the way, I only have one pair of jeans. I have more khaki pants and shorts.

PS. And if you happen to win a world cruise ticket, I will trade you for a pair of new jeans.