an article in the NYT about annuity pitch steak dinner

Not really news to me, but it's a great reminder about these scams.

And I don't use the word "scam" lightly. Early on in my retirement planning, I did go to one of those dinners. I also followed up with the "financial planner" (insurance salesman) who presented it. The red flags were flying high by now, but I was determined to see it through, and give him a real chance. It was clear by then all he wanted to do was sell annuities, and the numbers just didn't add up for most of his suggestions.

So I challenged him to one very specific task, to structure an annuity to replace a specific income stream for my wife, should I die first. I gave him all the personal and financial information he asked for. That was probably a very risky thing to do, security-wise.

He did his homework. He managed to structure a laddered annuity scheme which would just about match my original plan. But he couldn't beat it. He also couldn't explain why I should make a significant and very complicated change just to get the same result. I knew, of course, that it made very good sense for HIM, in the form of fat commissions.
 
They go after young naive first time investors as well. DH/me fell prey to a whole life policy and an annuity that cost us. I'm grateful to Bob Brinker and his radio show. We learned about "shark attacks" and got smart pretty quick. That's where we learned about VG.
 
The thing me and DW wonder is whether or not we can just go there and eat and leave. They’re always at a very nice restaurant and while we know we wouldn’t get their finest meal, we’re pretty sure it wouldn’t be bad.
 
It used to rare for me to receive these dinner offers. However, I moved early this year and have received about 25 of them this year! I wonder what data source they used to pick up my name - property purchaser, new drivers license, new bank account? I have no intention of ever attending one of the dinners.
 
gromit said:
It used to rare for me to receive these dinner offers. However, I moved early this year and have received about 25 of them this year! I wonder what data source they used to pick up my name - property purchaser, new drivers license, new bank account? I have no intention of ever attending one of the dinners.
Click to expand...

From my experience it's mostly based on your zip code.
 
Jerry1 said:
The thing me and DW wonder is whether or not we can just go there and eat and leave. They’re always at a very nice restaurant and while we know we wouldn’t get their finest meal, we’re pretty sure it wouldn’t be bad.
Click to expand...

You are expected to hear the pitch for the cost of the dinner. Sometimes they do not bring out the entree until after the presentation.

I have been to 5 or 6 so I guess I am an experienced plate licker as they call people that just attend for the food. Food and entertainment while you eat....why not...

Almost Zero pressure to sign up for a "free" (except your time) retirement analysis.

Actually the food is sometimes first rate (e.g. Steak (Filet Mignon) at Ruth Chris's including wine appetizer and desert).
 
capjak said:
You are expected to hear the pitch for the cost of the dinner. Sometimes they do not bring out the entree until after the presentation.

I have been to 5 or 6 so I guess I am an experienced plate licker as they call people that just attend for the food. Food and entertainment while you eat....why not...

Almost Zero pressure to sign up for a "free" (except your time) retirement analysis.

Actually the food is sometimes first rate (e.g. Steak (Filet Mignon) at Ruth Chris's including wine appetizer and desert).
Click to expand...


I usually bug my wife to go to Ruth Chris's for the meal but she hate having to sit for a presentation. Me? I'm cheap enough that an hour of my life is worth a decent steak. . . :dance:
 
I've been to a couple of these pitches. Sounds like everyone does the same pitch. The first time I heard the pitch I couldn't figure out what the gimmick was until I got home. Now I see it as an opportunity to try out a nice restaurant in the neighborhood on someone else's nickel.
 
"Plate licker." I love adding new phrases to my vocabulary!

We also did that for a vacation time-share presentation. Part of the fun is trying to figure out the angle the pitch is taking, and what the scam or ruse is. Like "financial planners" are really "insurance salesmen." In the case of the time-share, it was actually some sort of scheme (forget the details) which amounted to the same thing, but they kept insisting that it wasn't a time-share they were selling.

I like to crunch the numbers and figure out exactly why it wouldn't be such a great deal for me. Sure, if it ever worked out, I guess I'd buy whatever they're selling, so I don't think of it as dishonest. At least, it's not ME who's dishonest.

Admittedly, I've only been a plate licker three times in my life, one time share, one "not a time share" and one "financial planner." But I have nothing against doing it.
 
I go to them once in awhile and feel no guilt.
When I start speaking to them about some of the more involved subjects we discuss here, they back off.
 
We went to one of these dinners recently for some type of attic insulation and fan systems. Nice enough dinner at a local restaurant. Then the presentation. Then forms so that we could all sign up for a free in-house estimate in the next couple days. While the rest of the 'invitees' filled out their forms, we just sat and ignored the form.

The presenter walked around the room and looked over everyone's form. When he saw that we hadn't written down a time or day when we would be available, he asked us about it nicely. Our response was that we weren't at all interested. Then he literally got right up in our faces and demanded to know why.......after a nice presentation AND a nice dinner, how could we be so rude not to at least give his company a chance. Well, if we had thought about it at all, his change in attitude would have definitely earned him a big NOT INTERESTED.
 
braumeister said:
From my experience it's mostly based on your zip code.
Click to expand...


Yay, based on my zip code, I sure I'm safe :D


Oops, saw one of these sharks slowly circling at church. :facepalm:
Index variable annunities or some such. Guy hoped to sell enough of this stuff to quit his day job. Sort of MLM (aka Amway), insurance scheme, and AUM financial advisor all rolled into one. It was "fun" though, he was brighter than I would have expected. It took a couple hours of reading here and elseware to fully understand the scheme (scam?). My stock picking buddie came to the same conclusion independently. It was fun in a strange way, while it lasted.


You guys did better, yet again than I did. You got steak, I got coffee and stale cookies.
 
Jerry1 said:
The thing me and DW wonder is whether or not we can just go there and eat and leave. They’re always at a very nice restaurant and while we know we wouldn’t get their finest meal, we’re pretty sure it wouldn’t be bad.
Click to expand...

Took Mrs Scrapr to one...on Valentines day!!!

It was a scare fest. Trying to put fear in everyone. Our guy had that exact same graph. But at then end we did not sign up on the pass around sheet. We just got another one in the mail. I'm holding out for a better offer

The salesmen call the ones that don't sign up for an "in office" plate lickers. :greetings10:

Perhaps I need to print out the article and take to my next free dinner
 
CaptTom said:
"Plate licker." I love adding new phrases to my vocabulary!

We also did that for a vacation time-share presentation. Part of the fun is trying to figure out the angle the pitch is taking, and what the scam or ruse is. Like "financial planners" are really "insurance salesmen." In the case of the time-share, it was actually some sort of scheme (forget the details) which amounted to the same thing, but they kept insisting that it wasn't a time-share they were selling.
Click to expand...


I did the time share once a loooong time ago. It was around 1975. They gave me gas to get to the time share in NC, free meals, and stayed at the time share for 2 or 3 nights, and a free gift. We had to listen to a high pressure sales pitch. I came away with a video game to plug into my TV - Pong. Even in my mid 20s I knew better. It also helped that I didn't have any money.


Cheers!
 
I see on Halaby’s website (Total Financial Solutions) that they are members of the “National Ethics Association.” Evidently, a ‘cease & refrain order’ is not a disqualifying event. :facepalm:

The NEA is owned by an insurance company.
 
We get two or three invites a week. They all go straight to the recycle bin.
 
CaptTom said:
"Plate licker." I love adding new phrases to my vocabulary!

We also did that for a vacation time-share presentation. Part of the fun is trying to figure out the angle the pitch is taking, and what the scam or ruse is. Like "financial planners" are really "insurance salesmen." In the case of the time-share, it was actually some sort of scheme (forget the details) which amounted to the same thing, but they kept insisting that it wasn't a time-share they were selling.

I like to crunch the numbers and figure out exactly why it wouldn't be such a great deal for me. Sure, if it ever worked out, I guess I'd buy whatever they're selling, so I don't think of it as dishonest. At least, it's not ME who's dishonest.

Admittedly, I've only been a plate licker three times in my life, one time share, one "not a time share" and one "financial planner." But I have nothing against doing it.
Click to expand...

I own 5 timeshares and always get owners update, it drives them crazy when I ask "can't you buy them resale for a lot less"? Timeshare salesmen: "Oh we buy all those up so you will never get them for XX or tells some horror story about resale process"? I just say really I bought 5 resale and for about 10% of what you are asking and FYI there is one on ebay right now that will give me $300 and first years use free and your want $30,000 hmmmmm I think not....."
 
Huston55 said:
I see on Halaby’s website (Total Financial Solutions) that they are members of the “National Ethics Association.” Evidently, a ‘cease & refrain order’ is not a disqualifying event. :facepalm:

The NEA is owned by an insurance company.
Click to expand...

Yes, the guy whose financial seminar I attended had an array of certifications and accolades from phony "associations." Apparently you can buy them pretty cheaply.

A phony doctor I know (actually, a real PhD of chiropractic who swindles people by making all sorts of phony medical claims) uses the same techniques.

He and other phony doctors get together and write books ("Hey, I'm an expert on this; I wrote the book on it, with the famous Doc So-and-so!") They form associations which promote their phony healing "treatments" and publish phony articles and magazines to leave laying around their waiting rooms.
 
I got one of these invitations for the first time in my life. It's from a local guy who works for a financial services company I never heard of. I looked up the guy and he is young, about 25, and local, and has held some seminars in local libraries. His company, however, has a lot of complaints, many involving life insurance.


This letter with a free dinner offer at a local eatery is to promote "savvy social security planning" and the man running the meeting "is dedicated to helping New York area residents plan properly for their retirement with the help of Social Security."


The free meal is tempting, and I surely won't be investing any money with them. From what I have read here about these events, I'd be subject to some pressure to meet with this guy and turn my money over to him to manage. Yeah, right. I could go there and be some gadfly, also tempting.


Or, more simply, I just shred the letter and forget the whole thing.
 
^^^ A 25 year old selling high fee life insurance and complicated annuities to a group of savvy steak dinner seniors, what could possibly go wrong? I am not sure which party is taking advantage of the other. :facepalm:
 
I will buy my own steak instead and cook it on the grill. Probably cost more in gas and time to attend one of these. My time is worth a lot these days.


Cheers!
 
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