Women's World Cup - 2019

[Corporateburnout]

With Rapinoe and now Lavelle with hamstring injuries. The final will not be easy for the US especially if Lavelle can't go. She was the best US player until she got injured.

 

[candrew]

With Rapinoe and now Lavelle with hamstring injuries. The final will not be easy for the US especially if Lavelle can't go. She was the best US player until she got injured.

World Cup tournaments do pose challenges for teams and coaches. Injuries and suspensions require some bench depth. And that is where the U.S. side has a big advantage. I would say that Press was excellent in place of Rapinoe. Should Lavelle be unable to go, there is a very rested Morgan Brian waiting for her opportunity. 4 years ago, it was Brian coming off the bench to start in the knockout round in place of a suspended Lauren Holiday. It was Brian's insertion into the starting lineup that helped spark an otherwise lackluster looking U.S. team.

 

[Chuckanut]

Baseball - a 1-0 score in baseball can be changed in an instant, but still exciting to see a pitcher's duel in the meantime. Many theoretical scoring opportunities.
.

I remember a lot of Dodger games in the 60's. Maury Wills singles to 1st base. Wills steals second. Jim Gilliam sacrifices Wills to 3rd. Ron Farily hits a high fly ball to deep, deep right field. Wills tags and scores.
Kofax pitches a 3 hit shutout. Dodgers win 1-0.

 

[candrew]

I remember a lot of Dodger games in the 60's. Maury Wills singles to 1st base. Wills steals second. Jim Gilliam sacrifices Wills to 3rd. Ron Farily hits a high fly ball to deep, deep right field. Wills tags and scores.
Kofax pitches a 3 hit shutout. Dodgers win 1-0.

I'm also old enough to remember those kinds of baseball games. That was back in the day when pitchers didn't need to step off the mound seemingly between every pitch and hitters weren't stepping out of the batter's box between every pitch to adjust their batting gloves and sunglasses along with extra practice swings (I don't ever remember players wearing batting gloves). I recall that when catchers returned the ball to their pitchers everyone was ready for the next delivery. Let's not forget the present day specialist pitchers who are only expected to face a single batter. There's the hold guy (middle innings), the set-up guy (late inning) and the closer for the final inning. That's if the starter can last more than the first 3-4 innings before getting the hook.

The names you've mentioned were of a time when players were also properly schooled in the fundamentals of baseball and when bunting, hitting behind the runner and the the hit & run were part of the game. Can you imagine a player nowadays of Mickey Mantle's abilities being asked to lay down a bunt to advance the runner?! Hah! Now teams even defense certain hitters by putting on these ridiculous shifts and hitters those are deployed against are never asked to bunt their way on or, god forbid, drive a ball to the opposite field.

Present day baseball games move too slowly, have too many commercial interruptions and for me, are just too boring.

 

[Corporateburnout]

As exciting and entertaining the US-England semifinal was, today's other semifinal was a dud. The game was played in a slow pace and was settled in extra time.

I hope the final will be more entertaining but I think the US team should be able to handle the Dutch.

 

[candrew]

I'm sure the U.S. side was pleased that today's Netherlands vs Sweden semifinal required an additional 30 minutes to get a result. For the first time since the knockout round began, it is the U.S. getting the additional day of rest over their next opponent.

 

[Alan]

As exciting and entertaining the US-England semifinal was, today's other semifinal was a dud. The game was played in a slow pace and was settled in extra time.

I hope the final will be more entertaining but I think the US team should be able to handle the Dutch.

My thoughts exactly. We will be out and about during the day “en vacence” so will miss the final but I really don’t expect too much opposition to a USA win.

 

[truenorth418]

Not interested after that U.S. player made her political remarks. It should be fun for everyone. Soccer’s only a game after all, and a kids’ game at that.

 

[target2019]

I found another source of noise to ignore. Will be a good day. Today we fly Stars and Stripes, Old Glory, and also think of rainbow flags on our trip to the Jersey Shore.

Fortunately I missed most of the snooze-fest, aka Netherlands v Sweden. But I did wake up to see "the goal." Netherlands plays "the beautiful game", that is certain. Can they catch US defense ball-watching? Ouch!

One of the complaints I have with USWNT is that there are field players who seem to continually give up possession, yet are seen as key pieces by the public. For example, Tobin Heath loves the ball, but at times abandons team purpose, and just goes on loving that ball, isolates herself, and ball is taken away! I place Lavelle in same category, while acknowledging she can be a fantastic player at times, but can learn to link more often in the future.

I like watching USWNT, because it is at times chaotic, and not "the beautiful game" at all times. But I'd like to see more possession, or at least even with the Orange. Oh yeah, and five goals would be nice.

What does Jill Ellis have up her sleeve? She doesn't seem to get fazed much by injuries, silly coaches for the opponents, etc. She employs 4-3-3 and 4-1-4-1, and who knows what at times. I love watching the unexpected.

One more game to prove it all.

 

[candrew]

One of the complaints I have with USWNT is that there are field players who seem to continually give up possession, yet are seen as key pieces by the public. For example, Tobin Heath loves the ball, but at times abandons team purpose, and just goes on loving that ball, isolates herself, and ball is taken away! I place Lavelle in same category, while acknowledging she can be a fantastic player at times, but can learn to link more often in the future.

An interesting note re: Heath's and Lavelle's ball possession. Statistically, over the past 2 years, Heath’s dribbling is among the world’s best, standing sixth in international play in completed dribbles per 90 minutes since 2017. Lavelle, when it comes to progressive passing, ranks near the top as well. Both of these players are placed in roles that frequently require them to take on opposition players and defenses - sometimes 1 v 1 or even when outnumbered. Yes, that means they will at times turn the ball over yet the real key IMO, is where and when those turnovers occur. Is it in the attacking third or midfield when their team's shape will allow them to absorb a counter, or is it in the defensive third that results in an opponent creating a scoring opportunity? It appears that with these two players, at least from a statistical standpoint, the rewards are worth the risks.

 

[Corporateburnout]

Time of possession is a misleading and unimportant stat. The US lost it against both France and England but they're in the finals. When they went up in scoring they changed their approach and went into a defensive formation thus allowing the other teams to have the ball but not the goals.

 

[candrew]

Time of possession is a misleading and unimportant stat. The US lost it against both France and England but they're in the finals. When they went up in scoring they changed their approach and went into a defensive formation thus allowing the other teams to have the ball but not the goals.

+1

Just ask Spain how their 3-1 possession advantage worked out in their defeat at the hands of Russia in the round of 16 in last summer's World Cup. The Spaniards completed over 800 passes during regulation and OT yet managed only a single goal. Germany, in their loss to Mexico during group play had a 2-1 possession advantage.

Knocking the ball around can be an effective tactic if done in an incisive manner that pulls an opponent out of their defensive shape and creates scoring opportunities. OTH, if it only results into lobbing some hopeful balls into an opponent's penalty area, not so much....

 

[target2019]

An interesting note re: Heath's and Lavelle's ball possession. Statistically, over the past 2 years, Heath’s dribbling is among the world’s best, standing sixth in international play in completed dribbles per 90 minutes since 2017. Lavelle, when it comes to progressive passing, ranks near the top as well. Both of these players are placed in roles that frequently require them to take on opposition players and defenses - sometimes 1 v 1 or even when outnumbered. Yes, that means they will at times turn the ball over yet the real key IMO, is where and when those turnovers occur. Is it in the attacking third or midfield when their team's shape will allow them to absorb a counter, or is it in the defensive third that results in an opponent creating a scoring opportunity? It appears that with these two players, at least from a statistical standpoint, the rewards are worth the risks.

Where do the statistics come from? I searched but came up with nothing.

 

[candrew]

Where do the statistics come from? I searched but came up with nothing.

Here ya' go. Courtesy of the statistical geeks at fivethirtyeight.com

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/get-to-know-the-2019-u-s-womens-national-team/

 

[target2019]

Here ya' go. Courtesy of the statistical geeks at fivethirtyeight.com

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/get-to-know-the-2019-u-s-womens-national-team/

That is a biased piece! LOL.

I will ask the author where the stats come from.

In any event, I would like to see more than one assist from a highly ranked right forward.

 

[candrew]

That is a biased piece! LOL.

I will ask the author where the stats come from.

In any event, I would like to see more than one assist from a highly ranked right forward.

Perhaps it is, as you say, a biased piece.

Heath's stat has nothing to do with assists. Those are successful take-ons (1.5/90 minutes) beating a defender off the dribble in international play - not club.

 

[target2019]

Perhaps it is, as you say, a biased piece.

Heath's stat has nothing to do with assists. Those are successful take-ons (1.5/90 minutes) beating a defender off the dribble in international play - not club.

I was referring to her single assist in this World Cup. So I am thinking of this tournament, and what success/failure there is. That was all. I think she has fallen into old traits, of which she and coach have talked. In other words, there should be a purpose to your 1v1 attempt. Actually, my forst reference to this was about her play in the tournament. I will have to check the tapes, but I believe it is 1v2 and worse. However, I could be wrong.
The source of the stats is a paid service, I am guessing, as I saw it in another article by one of the authors. I have no access to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opta_Sports

 

[candrew]

I was referring to her single assist in this World Cup. So I am thinking of this tournament, and what success/failure there is. That was all. I think she has fallen into old traits, of which she and coach have talked. In other words, there should be a purpose to your 1v1 attempt. Actually, my forst reference to this was about her play in the tournament. I will have to check the tapes, but I believe it is 1v2 and worse. However, I could be wrong.
The source of the stats is a paid service, I am guessing, as I saw it in another article by one of the authors. I have no access to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opta_Sports

Fair enough then. I think we can agree that Heath's contributions offensively could stand some improvements in this tournament. Heath herself would probably agree with that as well. OTH, at least IMO, she should have been credited with a goal vs Sweden on her shot that deflected off an opponent's leg that was ultimately determined to be an "own goal" and was denied another one in the match vs France on an erroneous offside call. At the end of the day neither of those count on the score sheet. But I do think Heath has made other effective contributions during the tournament that don't make their way into the score sheet. That long through ball she played to Kelly O'Hara in the England match that helped set up Press's goal was technical. O'Hara gets credit for the helper but without Heath's brilliant pass, nada.

And you are correct. Opta sports is a paid service that compiles stats for leagues like the EPL.

 

[triangle]

Sorry - bit long - but why I like soccer.



I'm English and I love watching soccer especially when I'm supporting one of the teams that are playing. When I moved to the US in the early 90's I tried to watch 'American' sports on TV and I really couldn't get into them. The only one I could tolerate was baseball. Basketball seemed boring. It was way too easy to score. I tried to watch a couple of NFL games but I couldn't understand why the action seemed to stop every 30 seconds or so, and then it would restart a few yards further up the pitch. There were huge numbers of commercials and everyone seemed to know exactly what was supposed to happen next. The games seemed rigid and choreographed and no disrespect but it seemed to be just a bunch of fat guys running into each other.



I know you mentioned the low scoring in soccer but in fact that makes the game more exciting. It means that most games are usually on a knife's edge most of the time.



I'm not very good at expressing myself but I'll try to explain what it's like.


If you are supporting one of the teams - every time the opponents gain possession and especially when they approach your penalty area your heart is in your mouth. When you regain possession - there's a huge sense of relief. When your team is attacking your heart soars and when your team scores it's like winning the lottery (I imagine - never having won it). There is a huge amount of unpredictability about the game.



It's a very fast game and the action can switch from one end to the other within a matter of seconds. No-one knows what is going to happen next. Weaker teams often defeat better teams sometimes through luck but more often through grit and determination and backs to the wall defence and who doesn't want to cheer for an underdog?


As a novice it may seem to you that nothing is happening a lot of the time but in fact there are numerous individual battles occurring all over the pitch. As the game goes on players get tired. They'll typically run 8-10K per game often at speed. Different players tire at different rates and this changes the dynamics of the individual battles, swinging the game in favor of one team and then the other. Mixing substitutions into this just adds another layer of complexity. As you get more into the game you'll start to notice all these things.


When your team is winning you are usually happy but there is also a sense of apprehension that often turns to dread if the tide starts to turn. When you are losing there is always a sense of hope and because of the low scoring nature of the game this extends even to the last few minutes. In fact as the end of the game approaches the tension ratchets up a few notches. Sometimes the winning team will start to panic and withdraw into a shell and the losing team will launch one desperate last ditch attack after another. Sometimes the tension can seem almost unbearable.



Then there are the games that you remember for a long, long time; for example, the ones where you thrash your local rivals 5-0 or the games when you are losing 2-0 and end up winning 3-2.



Finally, and you don't really see this much at World Cup games, but the supporters are very passionate and the atmosphere at some of the top European clubs has to be experienced to be believed.


All these things are why I love soccer.

I can somewhat understand and relate. My friend likes watching soccer on TV compared to American Football (NFL) as there is no stoppage in play. But I think much of it is like a basketball game where the point guard more or less mindlessly dribbles the ball up the court. Only when reaching the offensive zone is there much strategy/coaching/preparation being applied. While there is stopping/reset after every play in NFL which is tedious in a different way, at least some strategy/coaching is being applied at every snap of the ball.

My biggest criticism against soccer as a viewer is not the game play but the rules which somehow minimize scoring opportunities. As an analogy I liken it to taking a college course where the professor determines the grades by a final exam with only one or two of questions. If you studied hard and broadly (great student) then you should do well. But there is also a chance that the person who did not study so deep or broadly (average student) knows the answer to that question as does just as well. Making it hard to separate the class on a spectrum/curve to see who really learned the material or not.

 

[target2019]

By the number of thread participants, it's obvious soccer is not the goto watchable sport. But I find it to be very interesting to watch for reasons stated by others. In some ways it is a simple field game. Your team has the ball and tries to move it through the field, one third or so at a time. Your team tries to unbalance the other by moving more players into your area of possession. Some teams are more possession oriented (Netherlands) while other teams may play more directly (USA).

 

[target2019]

Fair enough then. I think we can agree that Heath's contributions offensively could stand some improvements in this tournament. Heath herself would probably agree with that as well. OTH, at least IMO, she should have been credited with a goal vs Sweden on her shot that deflected off an opponent's leg that was ultimately determined to be an "own goal" and was denied another one in the match vs France on an erroneous offside call. At the end of the day neither of those count on the score sheet. But I do think Heath has made other effective contributions during the tournament that don't make their way into the score sheet. That long through ball she played to Kelly O'Hara in the England match that helped set up Press's goal was technical. O'Hara gets credit for the helper but without Heath's brilliant pass, nada.

And you are correct. Opta sports is a paid service that compiles stats for leagues like the EPL.

Shooter never gets credit for own goal. Maybe an assist should have gone to Heath, but not possible under present rules. Same goes for erroneous calls. The call was correct since it was not overturned. Just have to accept that in a game.

I'll be waiting to see what our NJ girl(s) accomplish in the match. At least a goal or assist from 5 players or more should help! I hope is is a decisive USA win, providing a solid future for the women.

 

[MichaelB]

By the number of thread participants, it's obvious soccer is not the goto watchable sport.

Over 4600 views, this indicates many interested members. Y’all set a high standard for participating in the discussion and the rest of us are just enjoying, and learning.

 

[target2019]

Over 4600 views, this indicates many interested members. Y’all set a high standard for participating in the discussion and the rest of us are just enjoying, and learning.

Just over 30 days have passed since the OP. Average views per days ~150.
Do you know if these are views by Logged-in users? My first guess is "yes".

 

[candrew]

Over 4600 views, this indicates many interested members. Y’all set a high standard for participating in the discussion and the rest of us are just enjoying, and learning.

Just read an interesting article in Soccer America by Ian Plenderleith where he shares his overall impressions of this Women's World Cup. With Sunday's final this thread will fade into the past. Not sure if the article can be accessed by all, therefore, I've excerpted just a bit for those who can't.

https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...france-impressions-of-the-2019-womens-wo.html

A few excerpts:

Stadiums: The tournament has been a success at getting supporters on to seats. For most games, the stadiums have been well-occupied to full, and plenty of local fans showed up for games featuring teams with few traveling fans.

The atmosphere and the fans: The U.S. fans were lively, especially at the Parc des Princes against Chile, though somewhat repetitive (is there no chant beyond 'USA! USA!'?). The Dutch fans were magnificent in terms of both numbers and noise, adding color and a variety of songs often missing at international games.

The games: It's been a fine tournament full of the requisite narratives, but has lacked some of the quality that the Women's World Cup had back when it was a 16-team competition. The 2011 edition served up several superb games, whereas in 2019 it's been more about holding on in the heat than dominating with brilliance.

The referees: On the field, there was too much lenience towards foul play. Off the field, everyone now has an opinion about the Video Assistant Referee, and few are ready to offer more than a qualified defense. Too often they defied FIFA's own mandate of "minimum interference, maximum benefit."

The profile of the women's game: The legacy of this tournament may go well hand-in-hand with a general raising of awareness on issues of equality. In the aftermath of the #metoo movement and the battle for better pay instigated by the U.S. women's team, France 2019 has highlighted more than ever how poorly most women's teams are treated compared with their male counterparts, and how much women's soccer everywhere is lacking in the support and resources allocated to the men's game. There is no excuse any more for FIFA and national federations to keep on ignoring this truth, and it's now one of their principal tasks to go about opening opportunities for the women's game around the world, from the grassroots upwards.

 

[candrew]

Rapinoe, LaVelle & Martens

Megan Rapinoe and Rose LaVelle have both stated that they are ready to play in tomorrow's final match. In spite of their declarations, these will probably be match-day decisions. With only 3 substitutions allowed in regular time, Ellis can't afford to start anyone who isn't 100%. Netherlands' star winger, Lieke Martens, who went off at halftime in their semi-final with a toe injury that she suffered earlier in the tournament will be another match-day decision. Liekens apparently injured her toe in a goal celebration after she scored the game-winning goal vs Japan.

Referees for tomorrow's final:

Ref: Stéphanie FRAPPART
ARef 1: Manuela NICOLOSI
ARef 2: Michelle O’NEILL
4th. Off: Claudia UMPIERREZ

Frappart, a French official, has already officiated three games so far at the tournament: the 0-0 group stage draw between Argentina and Japan, the Netherlands' 2-1 defeat of Canada in the same round, and Sweden's 2-1 quarter-final win against Germany. I saw Frappart work in the Netherlands/Canada and Sweden/Germany fixtures - both were hard fought matches that would test the best of referees. She demonstrated command presence when required without unnecessarily inserting herself into the game. Good decision IMO to award her a well-earned final.

Frappart became the first woman to referee a professional men's game in France's Ligue 2, before subsequently taking charge of matches at Ligue 1 level last season.