Pretty Sure We’re Never Retiring...Need Advice

[travelover]

 

[Scrapr]

I know you all mean well. Sometimes it's better to engage with a spirit of give & take rather than lecturing (hectoring?) with a poster that seems a bit distraught. Or at least looking for help. OP hasn't been back much to the thread. I hope she can come back & give some feedback for (gentle) suggestions

come back Shane....

 

[Sunset]

I know you all mean well. Sometimes it's better to engage with a spirit of give & take rather than lecturing (hectoring?) with a poster that seems a bit distraught. Or at least looking for help. OP hasn't been back much to the thread. I hope she can come back & give some feedback for (gentle) suggestions

come back Shane....

Yeah, but OP can't as her hubby is taking his flying lessons which will only cost $15,000 to get his license, and the plane he has signed for is only $150,000 loan at 13% interest. The best part though is the deal on the plane maintenance, storage, insurance, gas, etc will only average $30,000 per year.
It's practically a Steal

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I don’t want to squash his dreams, but I think saving for retirement is more important.

I’ve gotten to the final round of interviews a few times already but landing a job is taking much longer than it has in the past. We have two elementary aged children and all of this has me thinking, we are on the brink of disaster at all times. I grew up quite poor (so did my husband) and do not want to live paycheck to paycheck again.

You don't have to squash his dreams forever. He can get a pilot's license and rent planes to fly once you are out of debt. Maybe he could have a goal of saving up to buy a plane once your other priorities like retirement savings have been funded. If you check out what most people earn and spend in the Consumer Expenditure Survey, you can see that you are fortunate to have two well paying careers. If you adopt more middle class spending habits going forward, like most of the households in the survey, you should be able to get out of debt and never have to live pay check to pay check again.

Good luck on the job search.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

You don't have to squash his dreams forever. He can get a pilot's license and rent planes to fly once you are out of debt. Maybe he could have a goal of saving up to buy a plane once your other priorities like retirement savings have been funded. If you check out what most people earn and spend in the Consumer Expenditure Survey, you can see that you are fortunate to have two well paying careers. If you adopt more middle class spending habits going forward, like most of the households in the survey, you should be able to get out of debt and never have to live pay check to pay check again.

Good luck on the job search.

Yeah, I didn't address that part because I think she knew it wasn't realistic, but I thought about pointing out that in our thread on retirement splurges, most people don't spend more than 5% of their investable assets on something like that, so once you hit $2M, you can buy a plane! And I'm not saying that to be facetious, I think it could be motivating to know you could (eventually) buy a plane outright and not harm your long-term financial outlook! The way I look at it, a vacation home or RV or muscle car could provide as much diversion and recreation for some people as spending $20-50K per year on travel or other entertainment, so they really could pay for themselves IF you can reduce your entertainment and/or travel budget due to a one-time expense.

But if he just wants a plane NOW, without having to work or save for it? My guess is he'll get tired of it after a few months.

 

[ivinsfan]

I know you all mean well. Sometimes it's better to engage with a spirit of give & take rather than lecturing (hectoring?) with a poster that seems a bit distraught. Or at least looking for help. OP hasn't been back much to the thread. I hope she can come back & give some feedback for (gentle) suggestions

come back Shane....

Point taken yet the time for "give and take" was one job and a couple hundred thousand dollars ago. remember the OP lost their job and they are a one income household.

 

[WhenIsItTime]

OP and spouse should focus on financial solvency. That is a huge debt load.

I feel fortunate that I crossed a time early in life where money in the bank made me happier than the toys it could buy. Patience, a strong market and compounding now allows me to have both.

As someone with no debt, I always wonder why there are so many credit unions and banks and they all have new(er) buildings. This helps explain it.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

+1

Thanks for those comments, plus the video.

Harari, Y. "Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" also does a great job of putting modern consumer society into perspective from an anthropological perspective (with which one may or may not agree). Harari raises the provocative possibility, for example, that hunter-gathers "worked less" than we do today. One effective and successful hunt 12,000 years ago, for example, might have fed the clan for a month or more.

In contrast, the notion of working by the hour to put bread on the table, day by day, is a very recent phenomenon.

A relative (former Peace Corps worker) who lived for many years in Guatemala's Peten jungle district told me a story once. He and his family got to know many of the native people, many of whom made their way by collecting chicle, the base for chewing gum. Basically they would slash a wound into a tree trunk and collect the sap that oozed out. They'd do this for maybe a week or two out of the year.

My relative was obviously a Norteamericano foreigner, and inevitably conversations turned to the wealth up north. They wished they could have a new car, a big house, etc. Then my relative explained to them that the lifestyle connected to the wealth involved working every day. They were aghast. The value of the shiny possessions dimmed in their eyes.

 

[Rushmore]

OP and spouse should focus on financial solvency. That is a huge debt load.

I feel fortunate that I crossed a time early in life where money in the bank made me happier than the toys it could buy. Patience, a strong market and compounding now allows me to have both.

As someone with no debt, I always wonder why there are so many credit unions and banks and they all have new(er) buildings. This helps explain it.

Me too! I see some people with what I would think of as high income not grasping that it still is a finite amount of money and that they can’t have everything they want.

 

[Time2]

"I will never retire" sounds like something a child would say. I'm sorry, but take some accountability. You said you are like 50 or something? I am 38 and have far more saved than you do. Where did you go wrong? You NEED to absolutely cut your expenses...$hit maybe even by half, I hate to be brutally honest here but you need some help.

Tell the husband he be lucky if he ever see's coach again...LOL and he is talking about private pilot licenses...if he doesn't compromise and drop that plan, I would be serious...he never seeing coach again.

Is coach a euphemism? ;-)

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Yeah, I didn't address that part because I think she knew it wasn't realistic, but I thought about pointing out that in our thread on retirement splurges, most people don't spend more than 5% of their investable assets on something like that, so once you hit $2M, you can buy a plane! And I'm not saying that to be facetious, I think it could be motivating to know you could (eventually) buy a plane outright and not harm your long-term financial outlook! The way I look at it, a vacation home or RV or muscle car could provide as much diversion and recreation for some people as spending $20-50K per year on travel or other entertainment, so they really could pay for themselves IF you can reduce your entertainment and/or travel budget due to a one-time expense.

But if he just wants a plane NOW, without having to work or save for it? My guess is he'll get tired of it after a few months.

I know you can learn to fly on the cheap because when younger DH did chores at an airport in exchange for flying lessons, which cost him his time but no money. He lost interest and dropped it, so it was a good way to try it out without incurring any major expenses. Sometimes we go to a friend's yacht club and I see young adults crew for free in exchange for getting to be part of a yacht racing team. The seniors are usually the ones who own the boats but they need a crew in order to compete. I've often wondered if the young adults get the better deal because they get the fun without all the berthing, maintenance and ownership costs.

 

[Mdlerth]

Where everybody's a winner... except for the 99% who lose

As someone with no debt, I always wonder why there are so many credit unions and banks and they all have new(er) buildings.

I think the same thing when I see a casino. Gleaming brass and crystal chandeliers, plush carpet so thick you could lose a dachshund in it, cute waitresses serving free drinks... The money paying for all that luxury has to come from somewhere.

At least OP did NOT indicate she frequents casinos. If she had, that would have to be Number One on the cut list.

 

[corn18]

Your story sounds very much like ours. Our spending spree started in 1989 right after we got married. We always spent above our means and our only limiting factor was whether we could get a loan or not. It got to the point where we were paying off credit cards with new credit cards. Never owned a car or house (always had underwater loans). Our net worth when I retired from the military in 2008 was negative $65,000. After I retired, I found a great job at a defense megacorp paying lots of money. Started @ $150k / year and quickly rose to $350k / year. We kept on spending well above our means and in 2013 had a net worth of negative $200,000 and an income of $400k / year. I was 47 at the time. Still did not own a car or house (all financed to the hilt), had $0 saved for college and a LOT of consumer debt. So a lot worse off than you are now. Mentally, we just didn't want to think about the hole we were in because it was depressing. Yet we weren't willing to change.

In 2014, we BOTH read The Millionaire Next Door and everything changed. Fixing this was easy. Spend like a normal household and save the rest. So we cut expenses to $100k / year (oh the horror!). Paid off debt fast. Started saving right after that. When you make a lot and spend a little, you can catch up really fast. And we did. I am 54 now (6 years later) and we have no debt (none, zip,notta) and $1M in the bank. I am seriously thinking about retiring next year @ 55 with a $143,000 budget.

So, it can be done and it isn't hard. If you both commit to spending a lot less than you make. If you can do that, you can retire comfortably.

 

[LRDave]

I know you all mean well. Sometimes it's better to engage with a spirit of give & take rather than lecturing (hectoring?) with a poster that seems a bit distraught. Or at least looking for help. OP hasn't been back much to the thread. I hope she can come back & give some feedback for (gentle) suggestions

come back Shane....

+1

tough room.....

 

[Vacation4us]

Your story sounds very much like ours. Our spending spree started in 1989 right after we got married. We always spent above our means and our only limiting factor was whether we could get a loan or not. It got to the point where we were paying off credit cards with new credit cards. Never owned a car or house (always had underwater loans). Our net worth when I retired from the military in 2008 was negative $65,000. After I retired, I found a great job at a defense megacorp paying lots of money. Started @ $150k / year and quickly rose to $350k / year. We kept on spending well above our means and in 2013 had a net worth of negative $200,000 and an income of $400k / year. I was 47 at the time. Still did not own a car or house (all financed to the hilt), had $0 saved for college and a LOT of consumer debt. So a lot worse off than you are now. Mentally, we just didn't want to think about the hole we were in because it was depressing. Yet we weren't willing to change.

In 2014, we BOTH read The Millionaire Next Door and everything changed. Fixing this was easy. Spend like a normal household and save the rest. So we cut expenses to $100k / year (oh the horror!). Paid off debt fast. Started saving right after that. When you make a lot and spend a little, you can catch up really fast. And we did. I am 54 now (6 years later) and we have no debt (none, zip,notta) and $1M in the bank. I am seriously thinking about retiring next year @ 55 with a $143,000 budget.

So, it can be done and it isn't hard. If you both commit to spending a lot less than you make. If you can do that, you can retire comfortably.

Too bad OP hasn’t been back since her second post. Some people don’t want advise they just want to vent.

 

[ivinsfan]

Too bad OP hasn’t been back since her second post. Some people don’t want advise they just want to vent.

I actually looked and the OP joined up in 2013..seems strange to wait 7 years to post. This tells me they have sometime in past been on here reading or they know deep down something is wrong with their spending habits.

 

[Time2]

I actually looked and the OP joined up in 2013..seems strange to wait 7 years to post. This tells me they have sometime in past been on here reading or they know deep down something is wrong with their spending habits.

My suspicion is, that she wants to change and the hubby has no intention of doing the right thing. Also, he does not believe he is part of a team.
If so, that's a tough situation.
She's welcome back, even if it's just to vent.

 

[Amethyst]

Sometimes the advice is [-]undiplomatic[/-] strongly-worded; it gets tough to read when a person is feeling vulnerable as it is.

Too bad OP hasn’t been back since her second post. Some people don’t want advise they just want to vent.

 

[WyomingLife]

A relative (former Peace Corps worker) who lived for many years in Guatemala's Peten jungle district told me a story once. He and his family got to know many of the native people, many of whom made their way by collecting chicle, the base for chewing gum. Basically they would slash a wound into a tree trunk and collect the sap that oozed out. They'd do this for maybe a week or two out of the year.

My relative was obviously a Norteamericano foreigner, and inevitably conversations turned to the wealth up north. They wished they could have a new car, a big house, etc. Then my relative explained to them that the lifestyle connected to the wealth involved working every day. They were aghast. The value of the shiny possessions dimmed in their eyes.

+2

Thanks for sharing that, Mr._Greybeard.

Life is an odd, strange and wonderfully curious journey. And brutally short.

I think I saw that NASA just released a reprocessed image of Carl Sagan’s iconic “Pale Blue Dot” photo.

 

[Smallr]

The first step

Is understanding that you might need help. Congratulations for asking for advice.

I may have missed it, but given that mortgage rates our at historic lows, refinancing from a 4.75% to closer to 3.5% is a logical thing to consider. It is an option to roll one or more current debts at higher rates into that, but I would,limit it so your mortgage payment amount stays flat to today.

The quicker you can secure employment the better, and maxing out your 401k to build retirement savings.

As to the $45k, not sure I am qualified to advise. What I would do is start using a spending tracking tool (MINT, Personal Capital, etc) with DH and review history and make a spending plan and review it weekly and monthly. It takes 3 weeks to change a habit, and with spending, likely more! Good luck to you both.

 

[ivinsfan]

Is understanding that you might need help. Congratulations for asking for advice.

I may have missed it, but given that mortgage rates our at historic lows, refinancing from a 4.75% to closer to 3.5% is a logical thing to consider. It is an option to roll one or more current debts at higher rates into that, but I would,limit it so your mortgage payment amount stays flat to today.

The quicker you can secure employment the better, and maxing out your 401k to build retirement savings.

As to the $45k, not sure I am qualified to advise. What I would do is start using a spending tracking tool (MINT, Personal Capital, etc) with DH and review history and make a spending plan and review it weekly and monthly. It takes 3 weeks to change a habit, and with spending, likely more! Good luck to you both.

The mortgage comment is good but consider this, they are down to one job and massively in debt. Who know what their credit score is and if this is even an option right now. Not sure I concur about rolling consumer debt into the mortgage 30 years to payoff that cute pair of boots you bought

 

[Vacation4us]

Sometimes the advice is [-]undiplomatic[/-] strongly-worded; it gets tough to read when a person is feeling vulnerable as it is.

Funny out of all the strongly worded posts you picked mine to quote.

I think you read into my post something that wasn’t there.

Rephrased:

It’s a shame the OP hasn’t been back to participate.

Maybe she just wanted to vent.

 

[Major Tom]

Funny out of all the strongly worded posts you picked mine to quote.

I think you read into my post something that wasn’t there.

Rephrased:

It’s a shame the OP hasn’t been back to participate.

Maybe she just wanted to vent.

I don't think Amethyst was taking issue with your post at all, but merely quoting it so she could give her take on perhaps why the OP hasn't been back. That was how I read it, anyway.

I do think that while much of the advice here is good, some of the posts were worded in ways that were rather judgmental. Let's not kick someone when they're down shall we? Better to try and lift them up instead. The majority of people here are exceptionally good at doing that. It's impressive how many folk are willing to give their time to help out. I'm humbled, to be honest!

 

[kgtest]

Is coach a euphemism? ;-)

Perhaps. But in the amusing sense. Someone certainly must chuckle when debt and interest are a current impediment and the solution seems to be to splurge on more luxuries in lieu of other constructive choices.

They can hardly afford the main cabin coach fare let alone a private pilots license that costs 10s of thousands to obtain and is completely distracting to core issues...

 

[kgtest]

To the OP my apologies. Ive been irritable lately. Sisters stage 4 now progressed from Colin and liver to lungs and lymph. Sorta pounding sand behind the keyboard. See the cancer sucks thread for more.