Coronavirus - Travel impacts II

[NW-Bound]

^^^ The above article is behind a paywall.

I found out elsewhere that 21 passengers on the Grand Princess ship have tested positive. It looks like the entire ship of 3500 passengers and crew will be quarantined onboard. I guess it's not easy to find room and board for them on land.

It's a replay of the Diamond Princess in Yokohama. Aye, aye, aye....

 

[luckydude]

IMO, unless these travelers were offered a full refund on the cruise AND the airfare, that is harsh, unfair and borderline callous. Do you know how cruises work? Usually the full nonrefundable payment is due 60 days before the start of the cruise. They had already paid in full before this started to hit, and by the time this became news it was too late. And it's generally not refundable.

Don't get me wrong. I am not gleeful that this has happened to them and I do sympathize with their plight.

BUT---they made the call to board the ship with full knowledge of what's happening in the world and the risks they potentially run if something bad were to happen. Call it ill luck. Call it bad timing. Call it whatever. They made the call and unfortunately things didn't work out for them.

IMO, at some point, such decisions have to be about more than money. DW and I just cancelled our trip to Paris and London in June. Many of our bookings and flights were not refundable, and right now we're out USD $5,000. But we feel that that's the small price to pay in exchange for safety, peace of mind, and not running the risk of being infected and, worst still, bringing the virus back to our family and community and imperiling them unwittingly (as have happened with many travelers to N. Italy who subsequently returned to their communities and brought the infection with them).

Just my humble opinion and I certainly don't mean to offend.

Lucky Dude

 

[NW-Bound]

IMO, unless these travelers were offered a full refund on the cruise AND the airfare before it set sail, that is harsh, unfair and borderline callous. Do you know how cruises work? Usually the full nonrefundable payment is due 60 days before the start of the cruise. They had already paid in full before this started to hit, and by the time this became news it was too late. And it's generally not refundable unless the cruise is cancelled.

And if the cruise happens and you are not sick before it departs, travel insurance will not help. So "buy insurance next time" is a failed potential response.

You are expecting them to EAT thousands of dollars, basically flush it down the toilet, and you are judging them because they didn't. Wow. Maybe you have thousands to flush away, but a lot of people don't.

That was a long cruise of 15 days, from SF to Hawaii and back to SF. It's not cheap.

There are 62 passengers who stayed onboard from the earlier 7-day cruise from Mexico up to SF. That 3-week trip is more expensive yet. The earlier trip was the one taken by the 71-year-old man who died a few days ago.

These unfortunate people were likely elderly people who planned this as a trip of a lifetime to "blow some dough".

 

[luckydude]

^^^ The above article is behind a paywall.

I found out elsewhere that 21 passengers on the Grand Princess ship have tested positive. It looks like the entire ship of 3500 passengers and crew will be quarantined onboard. I guess it's not easy to find room and board for them on land.

It's a replay of the Diamond Princess in Yokohama. Aye, aye, aye....

This is the correct link:

https://www.latimes.com/california/...hit-by-coronavirus-confined-to-their-quarters

Delete your browsing history and you will be able to access the article. LA Times tracks your one free article via a cookie.

 

[ziggy29]

Don't get me wrong. I am not gleeful that this has happened to them and I do sympathize with their plight.

BUT---they made the call to board the ship with full knowledge of what's happening in the world and the risks they potentially run if something bad were to happen. Call it ill luck. Call it bad timing. Call it whatever. They made the call and unfortunately things didn't work out for them.

IMO, at some point, such decisions have to be about more than money. DW and I just cancelled our trip to Paris and London in June. Many of our bookings and flights were not refundable, and right now we're out USD $5,000.

I know you aren't gleeful and I apologize if I came across too strongly, but I feel strongly about this. For many people, the decision to just eat $5K is not even in the cards. Some of these folks may have saved a few bucks a month for years to do this. We met one couple, very working class, who cruised on their 20th anniversary and spent the next 10 years saving what little they could to do it again on their 30th.

We've done around eight cruises now. And we have met so many people who are celebrating, for example, milestone anniversaries, people who save for one special trip every 5-10 years. To put them in a position where they have to choose between going in the midst of a pandemic and eating the money they saved over years for that one special vacation -- with no refund option -- is a horrible choice.

 

[ziggy29]

That was a long cruise of 15 days, from SF to Hawaii and back to SF. It's not cheap.

There are 62 passengers who stayed onboard from the earlier 7-day cruise from Mexico up to SF. That 3-week trip is more expensive yet. The earlier trip was the one taken by the 71-year-old man who died a few days ago.

These unfortunate people were likely elderly people who planned this as a trip of a lifetime to "blow some dough".

Again, it's easy to say they are rich folks who can all afford it. They aren't. I know what a 15 day cruise costs on Princess. Inside cabin, you're looking at probably close to $4K for two, give or take. Costly, but not out of the range of a working class family saving for years for one special experience.

Those 62 passengers you talk about are a small percentage, probably 2% of the typical large ship's passenger manifest.

I am not going to say that most of the folks on the ship are people who struggled and scraped to afford the vacation of a lifetime. But some were, if my experience talking to people on every cruise I've ever been on is at all indicative. And the suggestion that "they had it coming" when they had no realistic option for a refund really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[Sunset]

Again, it's easy to say they are rich folks who can all afford it. They aren't. I know what a 15 day cruise costs on Princess. Inside cabin, you're looking at probably close to $4K for two, give or take. Costly, but not out of the range of a working class family saving for years for one special experience.

Those 62 passengers you talk about are a small percentage, probably 2% of the typical large ship's passenger manifest.

I am not going to say that most of the folks on the ship are people who struggled and scraped to afford the vacation of a lifetime. But some were, if my experience talking to people on every cruise I've ever been on is at all indicative. And the suggestion that "they had it coming" when they had no realistic option for a refund really rubbed me the wrong way.

Actually on princess, inside cabin has cost us just over $5,000 for a 15 day cruise.
Then add in the flights a person buys to be sure to get to the ship and back and that is another $600 easy.

Now, one could stay home instead, but here in Chicago, they just closed a High School and need to test all 200+ students and staff as an infected person worked there for a week.
So people got exposed by staying in town.

 

[luckydude]

I know you aren't gleeful and I apologize if I came across too strongly, but I feel strongly about this. For many people, the decision to just eat $5K is not even in the cards. Some of these folks may have saved a few bucks a month for years to do this. We met one couple, very working class, who cruised on their 20th anniversary and spent the next 10 years saving what little they could to do it again on their 30th.

No worries, I do enjoy a spirited discussion

Lucky Dude

 

[Peter]

Sunk cost

If the money has already been paid, and it's non refundable, then it's sunk cost. The money is gone, and all that remains is the decision whether to take the risk, or not.

 

[luckydude]

^^^ The above article is behind a paywall.

I found out elsewhere that 21 passengers on the Grand Princess ship have tested positive. It looks like the entire ship of 3500 passengers and crew will be quarantined onboard. I guess it's not easy to find room and board for them on land.

It's a replay of the Diamond Princess in Yokohama. Aye, aye, aye....

I doubt the CA government would allow them to disembark and be quarantined on land.

Just a couple of weeks ago, the federal government proposed to convert a CA state-owned old building located near a residential neighborhood in Costa Mesa, Orange County in Southern CA as quarantined site for a few Diamond Princess passengers who had been flown back to the state and were still being quarantined. The city and county authorities as well as nearby residents were in such an uproar that the federal government eventually abandoned the plan.

In the present environment of near hysteria and panic, no elected official in their right mind would consent to host a quarantine site in their jurisdiction.

Lucky Dude

 

[Souschef]

If the money has already been paid, and it's non refundable, then it's sunk cost. The money is gone, and all that remains is the decision whether to take the risk, or not.

Princess just sent out e-mails, offering total cruise credit to be used by the end of 2021. We have booked the same cruise for next year on the same ship.

 

[NW-Bound]

Again, it's easy to say they are rich folks who can all afford it. They aren't...

When I wrote that the cruise fare was not cheap, I meant it would be hard for people to simply give it up. I did not mean to say the passengers were rich and could easily write it off.

My choice of the phrase "blow dough" was unfortunate. What I meant was that many old people did not have many opportunities left to travel, and this trip would be a big deal for them. Money aside, they may not have much time left.

 

[audreyh1]

^^^ The above article is behind a paywall.

I found out elsewhere that 21 passengers on the Grand Princess ship have tested positive. It looks like the entire ship of 3500 passengers and crew will be quarantined onboard. I guess it's not easy to find room and board for them on land.

It's a replay of the Diamond Princess in Yokohama. Aye, aye, aye....

21 of 46 tested were positive. 19 were crew members, 2 passengers.

Lots more testing needed obviously with that high a % positive.

 

[audreyh1]

Don't get me wrong. I am not gleeful that this has happened to them and I do sympathize with their plight.

BUT---they made the call to board the ship with full knowledge of what's happening in the world and the risks they potentially run if something bad were to happen. Call it ill luck. Call it bad timing. Call it whatever. They made the call and unfortunately things didn't work out for them.

IMO, at some point, such decisions have to be about more than money. DW and I just cancelled our trip to Paris and London in June. Many of our bookings and flights were not refundable, and right now we're out USD $5,000. But we feel that that's the small price to pay in exchange for safety, peace of mind, and not running the risk of being infected and, worst still, bringing the virus back to our family and community and imperiling them unwittingly (as have happened with many travelers to N. Italy who subsequently returned to their communities and brought the infection with them).

Just my humble opinion and I certainly don't mean to offend.

Lucky Dude

I’m sure folks had been told before Feb 21 that no one who had traveled in countries at risk, etc., would be allowed on the cruise, and given the itinerary, there were no outbreaks at all in the areas traveled.

Now, 2 weeks later, of course the picture looks entirely different.

 

[Tiger8693]

For the stranded cruise off Cali: IF the people knew about this beforehand, and IF they are in the most affected group to die (elderly, serious underlying conditions), then it seems to be a decision between losing $5k to $10k, or potentially your life (3-4% in that group). I know what decision I would make.

 

[audreyh1]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Honestly what is the point of discussing passenger decisions that were made or not made several weeks ago? We can only move forward.

 

[MichaelB]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Honestly what is the point of discussing passenger decisions that were made or not made several weeks ago? We can only move forward.

+1

 

[Tiger8693]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Honestly what is the point of discussing passenger decisions that were made or not made several weeks ago? We can only move forward.

I agree. That's why I also put all the "IF's" in the statement. I think more likely it was before a lot of what is known now came out. I do wish them luck, and the best!

 

[Jerseytunahunter]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Honestly what is the point of discussing passenger decisions that were made or not made several weeks ago? We can only move forward.

OK, lets try 20/20 Foresight. Last summer DW and I booked a trip to Spain 3/24-3/30. This non-essential travel so we really don't have to go. If we cancel we lose $2k on hotels in Madrid and Seville and miss out on a great trip. We're reading everything we can on the virus and monitor this map from Johns Hopkins, which is updated daily:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

As of today Spain has 401 infected, 5 deaths and 2 recoveries. Spain has 44Million residents so in the grand scheme of things this is a very small concern-until someone in your hotel is infected and the all the guests are quarantined. Of course you still have air and train travel, will the museums and attractions be closed, etc., etc. As of today we are leaning no-go, but it will be a last minute decision.

 

[brewer12345]

21 of 46 tested were positive. 19 were crew members, 2 passengers.

Lots more testing needed obviously with that high a % positive.

Actually at this point further testing is a waste of resources. Everyone on the ship was exposed and needs to go through a lengthy quarantine.

 

[Nemo2]

this is a very small concern-until someone in your hotel is infected

As one variation of the oft quoted Mike Tyson line goes...“Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

 

[braumeister]

OK, lets try 20/20 Foresight. Last summer DW and I booked a trip to Spain 3/24-3/30. This non-essential travel so we really don't have to go.

We had the same issue for a scheduled trip to Italy and Germany that covered most of the month of May. It came down to what we judged to be the relatively high likelihood of being quarantined at some point. We asked ourselves whether we wanted to be quarantined in a foreign hotel room or at home, and we canceled the trip.

As in your case, we lost most of what we had paid for a nonrefundable hotel room in Germany, but everything else was refunded (including a tour and supposedly nonrefundable plane tickets). Italy will still be there.

 

[ivinsfan]

We had the same issue for a scheduled trip to Italy and Germany that covered most of the month of May. It came down to what we judged to be the relatively high likelihood of being quarantined at some point. We asked ourselves whether we wanted to be quarantined in a foreign hotel room or at home, and we canceled the trip.

As in your case, we lost most of what we had paid for a nonrefundable hotel room in Germany, but everything else was refunded (including a tour and supposedly nonrefundable plane tickets). Italy will still be there.

Will this experience cause you to book more refundable rooms for future trips? That is a bigger drawback to a VRBO type rental IMO they usually have much more restrictive refund policies.

 

[Trooper]

Princess just sent out e-mails, offering total cruise credit to be used by the end of 2021. We have booked the same cruise for next year on the same ship.

Norwegian (NCL) did something similar last night:

Additionally, I <the CEO> want to provide our guests and travel partners with reassurance, so I am very pleased to announce our
new Peace of Mind policy. Simply put, for any voyage from March 10, 2020 through September 30, 2020, guests
are free to cancel anytime up to 48 hours in advance of embarkation. Please note that this new policy applies to
individual and group bookings only. Anyone choosing to cancel will receive a full refund in the form of a future cruise
credit to be used for sailings that embark through December 31, 2022. This is by far the most consumer-friendly
policy in the industry. We put our guests first!

Although we will still lose some monies (air, pre/post cruise apartments) we may re-book for next year.

 

[Sunset]

21 of 46 tested were positive. 19 were crew members, 2 passengers.
.......

With 19 of the infected crew, it's a probably been spread everywhere, on the current ship, and the previous one.
It seems to me, everyone (crew and passengers) need to be quarantined on land (as we know ships are terrible for quarantine).

We have one of the passengers from the previous trip here in Chicago, and she is (+), and worked at a school for a week while sick. Guess she didn't have sick leave.

Possibly even the 3rd most recent travel of the ship should have the passengers checked (at least by phone), since we don't know that the crew were only recently infected.