Terrible North Miami Beach condo collapse

[Aerides]

The condo was built in the heyday of the Miami construction boom of the 1970s and 80s.

Would not want to own a condo in any of those or in fact any similar building on that coast and of a similar age.

Now there are suggestions... that one or more residents may have initiated unpermitted renovations, which damaged support columns and caused the structure to collapse.

All of the above is true for literally hundreds of condo buildings, or more, along both sides of the south florida coast. Everything you can say about this building (so far) is undoubtedly true in half the beach front condos in several counties, with millions of residents.

So I'd imagine there's something unique about this one, which won't be determined for some time.

 

[Nick12]

Now there are suggestions, probably in hopes of averting responsibility, that one or more residents may have initiated unpermitted renovations, which damaged support columns and caused the structure to collapse.

Since those people are probably pancaked, and "unpermitted" means "no records," it would be quite difficult to find out.

I doubt it but the top floor 4 bedroom penthouse sold recently for $2.9 million and the pictures of the condo are beautiful with breathtaking views. If there were any renovations it surely showed.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

The more they dig into this, (Excuse the pun, not intended) they are finding abnormalities in previous building inspections. This may be a wakeup call for coastal properties, especially high rises. One may want to look into previous inspection reports before buying. However, I think it will all be forgotten after a few months, or a year.

 

[Car-Guy]

The more they dig into this, (Excuse the pun, not intended) they are finding abnormalities in previous building inspections. This may be a wakeup call for coastal properties, especially high rises. One may want to look into previous inspection reports before buying. However, I think it will all be forgotten after a few months, or a year.

I'm sure there is a lot of time and money being spent to come up with an answer....

 

[Sunset]

The more they dig into this, (Excuse the pun, not intended) they are finding abnormalities in previous building inspections. This may be a wakeup call for coastal properties, especially high rises. One may want to look into previous inspection reports before buying. However, I think it will all be forgotten after a few months, or a year.

Also, I'm thinking these would be hard to find.

When buying I'd have no idea of the number, if any, inspections that had been done, or where they would be. Even if I get 1 report, is it all the reports

Is there a central registry for all inspections, where the reports have to be filed and are public, or would I be depending upon the condo to show reports that it's neglected and possibly endangered

 

[Nick12]

It was a buyers market when condo values tanked during the recession of 2008,09. Anyone sitting on cash bought at a very attractive price. It will be interesting to see what condo prices in South FL will be after the investigation is complete. There is a lot of investor cash sitting on the sidelines

 

[Amethyst]

Yes, true, and not just Florida, but anywhere there are beachfront condos.

In fact, the latest article in the Palm Beach Post says the building was evaluated 3 years ago, and significant concrete damage found in the parking garage and pool deck, but that the engineers didn't signal that immediate repairs were needed or else disaster.

The management chose a longer time-frame, no doubt to allow for special assessments to raise the very large sums required. A contract had been let, and repairs were just about to start. The irony is just icing on top of the general misery of this disaster.

All of the above is true for literally hundreds of condo buildings, or more, along both sides of the south florida coast. Everything you can say about this building (so far) is undoubtedly true in half the beach front condos in several counties, with millions of residents.

So I'd imagine there's something unique about this one, which won't be determined for some time.

 

[Chuckanut]

Yes, but!

I admit the Leaning Tower does get a lot of help from tourists who take time from their busy vacation schedules to help support it. I have seen dozens of photos of tourists supporting the Tower to keep it from leaning even more.

There was a great episode of NOVA (or maybe Frontline) that tried to explain what the experts think happened to cause the Twin Towers to utterly collapse in a few seconds. Nobody expected that even with a jetliner crashing into it. NOVA also did a good show on the Hagia Sophia (about 1500 years old) in Istanbul which has survived numerous earthquakes that have taken out lesser buildings. Alas, the HS is showing its age and might not survive another big one without help

 

[brett]

This is an example of the inherent risks in building high rise buildings on a barrier island.

There will be more problems. The sea level continues to rise as those in the Keys know only too well.

 

[Dash man]

Our condo about 40 miles north of the disaster, was built in 1971. They’ve been doing a lot of restoration work since we bought the place in 2016. I hope some serious inspections are done anyway.

 

[Freedom56]

This should be no surprise.

A consultant engineer warned three years before the deadly collapse of a South Florida condominium building that there was evidence of “major structural damage” to the concrete slab below the pool deck and abundant cracking and crumbling in the underground parking garage, the New York Times reported on Saturday.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/26/miami-condo-collapse-warning-death-toll

Buildings just don't collapse out of the blue. The warning signs were obvious. Also in the past they use to mix concrete on site often using aggregate from the site. Another reason to avoid old high rise buildings in coastal areas. When we were condo hunting in 2011 around North Miami beach and downtown Miami, we avoided any building built before 2000. The trend over the past 10 years in Miami beach has been to tear down the old and build taller and new.

 

[NW-Bound]

I saw another article that has the following quote from the 2018 report issued by the consulting firm hired by the building association to inspect the building.

In the parking garage, which largely sits at the bottom level of the building, part of it under the pool deck, Mr. Morabito said that there were signs of distress and fatigue.

“Abundant cracking and spalling of varying degrees was observed in the concrete columns, beams, and walls,” Mr. Morabito wrote. He included photos of cracks in the columns of the parking garage as well as concrete crumbling — a process engineers refer to as “spalling” — that exposed steel reinforcements on the garage deck.

Mr. Morabito noted that previous attempts to patch the concrete with epoxy were failing, resulting in more cracking and spalling. In one such spot, he said, “new cracks were radiating from the originally repaired cracks.”

The columns of the underground parking garage had to support all the floor slabs above it. Perhaps the damage caused them to buckle.

See: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c...serious-concrete-damage/ar-AALt7r2?li=BBnb7Kz

 

[FlaGator]

Has anyone seen a diagram of the complex showing the location of the pool? Thought it strange there was a cloud of dust, then just one wing sheared off, leaving parts of individual units upright.

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ The pool is at a corner of the lot. It's not close to the building. See the link below.

There's a large pool deck between the pool and the building. The entrance to the underground garage is on 88th St (top of the satellite image). The garage extends to under the pool deck.

https://www.google.com/maps/@25.8729026,-80.1209283,89m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[NW-Bound]

The building that collapsed is called Champlain Towers South.

In the image linked in my last post, look further up north (top of the image). Skip the next building, called Solara Surfside. The next building north is Champlain Towers East Condo. It's the sister building of the doomed one, built using the same materials and similar design. People are now questioning its safety.

 

[Sue J]

Saw this earlier

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252377493.html

“Early Thursday morning, Mike Stratton awoke to the sound of his cellphone ringing. It was his wife, Cassie Stratton, on the other end, speaking frantically about their condo building shaking. She told him she saw a sinkhole where the pool out her window used to be. Then the line went dead.”

Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article252377493.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Sue J]

The building that collapsed is called Champlain Towers South.

In the image linked in my last post, look further up north (top of the image). Skip the next building, called Solara Surfside. The next building north is Champlain Towers East Condo. It's the sister building of the doomed one, built using the same materials and similar design. People are now questioning its safety.

And the one just north of that is Champlain Towers North at 8877 Collins Ave. So there are 3 of them. If you go to street view you can see the names of the buildings.

I saw on the news that the South building and the North building were built at the same time or one right after the other. The East building at 8855 Collins Ave. was built sometime later.

 

[Brat]

A crack in the concrete may 'hide' rusted rebar. Rust expands the dimension of the rebar and prevents it from 'grabbing' the concrete. This may well be the root cause of the collapse.

 

[RobbieB]

I thought it odd that the bent over exposed rebar was clean. No chunks attached.

 

[NW-Bound]

The following photo shows that the garage extends under the pool deck all the way to near the pool.

Not all of the pool deck has collapsed. The half that collapsed to the garage below is between the pool and the part of the building that is still standing.

Look closely and you will see a part of the slab under the standing building had fallen down to the space below. There's a car tilted to its side.

Definitely, the part of the building still standing has its integrity also compromised. One would be nuts to stay there.

 

[NW-Bound]

A photo from another angle.

This one has to be from a drone, because there's no other building between the collapsed one and the ocean.

 

[Telly]

I thought it odd that the bent over exposed rebar was clean. No chunks attached.

Yes, I noticed that too. Really odd.

In one of the videos, it looks like floors #12 down to maybe floor #2/3 or so, all settle downwards as a unit before they start to pancake from bottom - up as they hit what's below. To me, that suggests structural failure of columns at the lower/lowest level.

 

[FlaGator]

Thanks for the imagery and additional info.

 

[Koolau]

All of the above is true for literally hundreds of condo buildings, or more, along both sides of the south florida coast. Everything you can say about this building (so far) is undoubtedly true in half the beach front condos in several counties, with millions of residents.

So I'd imagine there's something unique about this one, which won't be determined for some time.

This is what I was thinking as well - including MY building which is much closer to the ocean. We have had some spalling issues which have been kept after over time. If the issues mentioned are as common as we have posed in the last couple of pages, it seems that more buildings would have collapsed. My SWAG is that there was an underlying problem we haven't thought of - otherwise, the things we've come up with are "bad" but rarely tragic. Since I have no idea what I'm talking about, I understand that YMMV.

 

[Jim59]

This terrible tragedy brought to mind a book I read about 40 years ago called Condominium.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20549375-condominium.


The story is set around the shoddy construction and shady business practices of the phony corporations that 'owned” the Condos, (the real owner was a shaky bank).