Tipping

Moot point where I live. Nobody delivers food here, except me.

Heck it takes a while (scheduled weeks in advance) to get a new refrigerator, washer/dryer, etc to be delivered out here. OTOH, when I bought my last tractor, it was delivered the same day.
 
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I mentioned seeing the news story because it was indicative of people not tipping. So, are you experiencing a lot of non-tippers for the orders coming up that you are not taking?

It does seem to me that a tip should only be determined by the customer AFTER the delivery has been made.

I signed up for Uber Eats a few months ago for a few extra bucks. I declined around 90% of the orders offered to me because they were $5 or less which means little to no tip added. The few I accepted where still not worth the effort involved so I stopped doing it. I am still signed up and can turn the app on anytime I want and do a few deliveries but I probably won't especially during the Winter.
 
I assume you realize there’s a substantial difference between the base pay of servers versus cooks and staff - they are rewarded compared to servers. And having worked as a server many years ago, you have no clue what it takes to be a good served in a sit down restaurant. And at least the BOH folks don’t have to put up with the abuse from all too many entitled customers, much worse now than it used to be - probably because of attitudes like yours…

+1. In addition, at most higher end restaurants it's the runners who bring the food and clear afterwards. The waiter rarely touches the plates, let alone carry them.

The runners are typically paid tips by the server based upon a percentage of their day's tips.

So in shortchanging your waiter, the little guy also gets hurt. Servers also usually have to tip their bartender in the same fashion. I short, they dont keep all of that 10% you generously leave them.

Of course, if your idea of high end fine dining is Red Lobster, then all bets are off!
 
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I would gladly pay 18-20% if I could split that up by Front of the House (FOH) and back of the House (BOH). IMO the people who deserve the money are the line cooks, prep cooks, and all the other staff working at the back who made my meal possible.

Carrying a few plates and some drinks is considerably less effort and skill. Reward the people who made the food.

It's really simple to dismiss the work and skill of a good server, when a good one makes it look easy. Pretty clear many in this thread have never done that job. I did. It is grueling work, physically and mentally challenging.

Just imagine dealing with tables full of everyone in this thread....
 
It's really simple to dismiss the work and skill of a good server, when a good one makes it look easy. Pretty clear many in this thread have never done that job. I did. It is grueling work, physically and mentally challenging.

Just imagine dealing with tables full of everyone in this thread....
I'd quit. :)
 
It's really simple to dismiss the work and skill of a good server, when a good one makes it look easy. Pretty clear many in this thread have never done that job. I did. It is grueling work, physically and mentally challenging.

Just imagine dealing with tables full of everyone in this thread....

There are a lot of jobs tougher than serving that don't pay anywhere near as much if tips are being counted honestly. Sometimes I think servers are elevated to near mythical status. Other than in some high end restaurants, serving is basically an entry level job no matter what anyone claims.
 
It's really simple to dismiss the work and skill of a good server, when a good one makes it look easy. Pretty clear many in this thread have never done that job. I did. It is grueling work, physically and mentally challenging.

Just imagine dealing with tables full of everyone in this thread....

Life is a choice, I simply would not and did not choose to do that job or any other tipped job for that matter, to me in my younger days, I considered it a dead-end job, and I still do, and it is. I chose to get a low-end job in a storehouse with an education benefit instead and go to college in the evenings, get a decent education and moved on from there. Maybe I digressed and became an Engineer instead, but that is a different story, that was also my choice.

The great thing about America (and Canada) is there is a tremendous choice, that is not available in some countries.

The reason is that I did not want to rely on "other" folks generosity or lack thereof for my livelihood. Again, a choice.

While a server's job may be difficult for some, it is still a low-end totem pole job. Unless one is trying to get better educated on the restaurant business with intent on starting up their own one day, which is like a college education of sorts, I do not see point. Unless of course, one cannot get anything else, which is why a lot of folks end up doing it, but at the end of the day, it is still a choice. I certainly do not feel sorry for them, no one ever felt sorry for me lugging boxes and component parts to tradesmen in my storehouse job, and I did not expect it.

Oh, and please don't assume we do not tip where applicable, we do. Not at fast food establishments, take outs or donut shops though. We tip ONLY because it is expected and seems to be the norm, not for any other reason, "When in Rome". We tip the appropriate amounts for a given venue where applicable.
 
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There are a lot of jobs tougher than serving that don't pay anywhere near as much if tips are being counted honestly. Sometimes I think servers are elevated to near mythical status. Other than in some high end restaurants, serving is basically an entry level job no matter what anyone claims.
No one here has suggested waiters deserve “near mythical status”. They do suggest waiters are professionals like any other and deserve to paid as such.

The gratuity is part of the wage but has been unbundled. Some people choose to ignore that and take advantage of it.

I think many waiters earn the gratuity and more just by putting up with poor attitudes of some diners.
 
Highlights by me.

No one here has suggested waiters deserve “near mythical status”. They do suggest waiters are professionals like any other and deserve to paid as such.

Sorry Michael, this is a crock. Comparing a server to a "proper" professional is demining to all professionals that have studied and/or worked to become such.

They are not professionals; they are laborers if anything. This is not a bad thing, just being realistic.

The gratuity is part of the wage but has been unbundled. Some people choose to ignore that and take advantage of it.

It is a result of greedy employers not wanting to compensate accordingly. It is completely on their shoulders.

I would rather that it was MANDATORY and clearly stated on every bill (Like a cruise ship for example, at least they are honest about it) and displayed for every patron to see. I would have no issues with that at all, same for walk up bar tenders.

Do you think flight attendants, hotel reservation, Grocery checkout, Home Depot floor walkers and Walmart Greeters to name but a few should be tipped also? Probably not, as they are most likely paid appropriately, other than that what makes them different from a server?
 
It's not actually a tip, it's a delivery charge. There's a price to be paid for someone coming to your door. I have to agree with Aaron - if you don't like that, then go get it yourself.


No, it is a tip... they advertise 'free delivery'... so any money spent is to tip the person...


If they add a charge on for delivery, that is a delivery charge and everybody will pay it...
 
I signed up for Uber Eats a few months ago for a few extra bucks. I declined around 90% of the orders offered to me because they were $5 or less which means little to no tip added. The few I accepted where still not worth the effort involved so I stopped doing it. I am still signed up and can turn the app on anytime I want and do a few deliveries but I probably won't especially during the Winter.
Interesting. So you get a dollar value, but not a breakdown of what is tip and what is something else. I'm interested enough now to check out how the food delivery business operates.
 
It is a result of greedy employers not wanting to compensate accordingly. It is completely on their shoulders.
Shared maybe, completely is false. And not greedy employers, they’ve just continued a tradition that’s existed for hundreds of years. You’ll find most servers in medium to high end restaurants prefer low wages with tips, they can do very well!

There have been many restaurant groups who have experimented with eliminating tipping and increasing server wages accordingly. Every one I’ve seen has failed, servers quit and went to restaurants that still used the traditional tip structure AND some customers quit going to no tip restaurants due to higher prices (ignorant but that’s what happened). Restaurants lost some customers and servers. Here are several case studies, by no means not all https://www.tvo.org/article/whatever-happened-to-the-no-tipping-experiment-it-failed.

I abhor the abuse servers have to put up with from entitled customers who take advantage of servers who can’t push back while they depend on tips. And some tip sharing schemes are crooked or unfair to better servers. So I’m not completely against replacing tipped jobs with paying servers 15-20% higher base wages and eliminating tipping - BUT it’s been shown that won’t work - unless it’s done industry wide. Presumably that would require legislation.

And it’s also been shown that increasing pay from minimum wage to $15/hour for lower wage positions, cost jobs. No reason to think that won’t happen with higher end servers if legislation forces higher hourly wages w no tips.
 
Europe is NOT the USA! They typically pay their employees and value them better.

Right, so Chicago (or is it IL) is raising the wages of server's to minimum wage ($15 /hr) phased in over 5 years...

So in 5 years time, they will be paid the same as the fellow working at Home Depot, or bagging groceries or stocking shelves..

At that point for me tipping seems to loose it's reason... I expect everyone doing a job to do an acceptable good job.
 
Sorry Michael, this is a crock. Comparing a server to a "proper" professional is demining to all professionals that have studied and/or worked to become such.

They are not professionals; they are laborers if anything. This is not a bad thing, just being realistic.

Professionals are not defined by the amount of study they have undertaken, the skill required to perform the job is just as important. Ask any restaurant owner about the skills needed to handle that position. I certainly I know many college educated people that are anything but “proper”.

Someone as worldly as you has experienced professional wait staff in other countries. You advocate paying waiters a full salary as is done in most other countries around the world, but keep in mind that means they also deserve the same level of respect, which is considerable higher than here in the US.
 
Right, so Chicago (or is it IL) is raising the wages of server's to minimum wage ($15 /hr) phased in over 5 years...

So in 5 years time, they will be paid the same as the fellow working at Home Depot, or bagging groceries or stocking shelves..

At that point for me tipping seems to loose it's reason... I expect everyone doing a job to do an acceptable good job.

I think that's Chicago moving toward the $15/hr tipped workers, although the state of Illinois is moving toward a high $15/hr minimum wage, which is just driving up prices even more. It does seem tipping would "lose" its reason at that point.

No, it is a tip... they advertise 'free delivery'... so any money spent is to tip the person...

If they add a charge on for delivery, that is a delivery charge and everybody will pay it...

Yeah, I was definitely referring to the "tip" when I said tip earlier. The delivery charges and services charges are separate, so it makes sense they would be set and paid upfront. And the price of the food item is normally higher than if you went to pick it up at the restaurant yourself also. If I order pizza from Domino's, there's a $4 delivery charge, but there's still an expectation of $5 or more tip for that $10 pizza, which will then be over $20 after delivery, tip, and tax.
 
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No, it is a tip... they advertise 'free delivery'... so any money spent is to tip the person...


If they add a charge on for delivery, that is a delivery charge and everybody will pay it...

I don't care what they advertise. If no one will deliver it to you without a "tip", then it is an unbundled delivery charge. I understand you don't want to pay, so you'll probably have to drive to the restaurant and get it yourself, or do without.
 
Sorry Michael, this is a crock. Comparing a server to a "proper" professional is demining to all professionals that have studied and/or worked to become such.

They are not professionals; they are laborers if anything. This is not a bad thing, just being realistic.

Maybe we don't frequent the same restaurants.

The waiters that I reference are, indeed professional waiters. They can make upwards of $200k to $400k. They're mostly older men and have been going their job for 20 or 30 years, not kids working through college.

They're extremely knowledgeable about food, wine pairing, tableside preparation and often sideline as personal chefs for the wealthy. Food is largely their life.

They actually get recruited with significant signing bonuses and percentage of the gross offered
with the expectation of bringing their clientele with them. No, this isn't the Red Lobster crowd.

As I mentioned earlier, when we lived in France we ran into a couple of waiters fron New York who's restaurant sent them to Paris for two weeks to better learn wine and pairing. Not an expense a restaurant would make for laborers.

Again, your assessment could be more accurate if you're referencing Olive Garden but even then, the laborer label really isn’t appropriate.
 
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The waiters that I reference are, indeed professional waiters.

I remember when I lived in Brazil, decades ago, that the only way to get a job as a restaurant waiter was to graduate from the government-run school that trained them. It was a respected profession, and they were just about all in that job for life.
 
Maybe we don't frequent the same restaurants.

The waiters that I reference are, indeed professional waiters. They can make upwards of $200k to $400k. They're mostly older men and have been going their job for 20 or 30 years, not kids working through college.

We certainly do not, and I am not referring to those folks either. I am referring to more of the general & chain restaurants that most folks frequent.
 
My mother was a waitress from the age of 15 in 1944 when she dropped out of school and fibbed about her age to get the job. She waited on her last table at Denny's in 1992 when I moved her in with me in Georgia upon her retirement. She managed to raise 3 kids as mostly a single parent working as a waitress.

When I was 15 in the mid 60's I worked with her for a couple of years as a busboy. I was making 80 cents per hour while she and the other waitresses were making 60 cents per hour. The minimum wage at the time was either $1.25 or $1.40 an hour and I will assure you that none of the wait staff at the time would consider working for that wage without tips. She made a good living and was buying her own home which never would have happened working for minimum wage. I was tipped out from the wait staff and I had plenty of money to buy my own car before I was old enough to get my license.

She ended her career with about 20 years at Denny's and you would be surprised what a good waitress with a solid base of regular customers can bring home even there. The attached photo is from the restaurant we worked at together although taken in the late 1950's, before my time there. It was a high end restaurant with a main dining room, ball room, night club, several bars and many party rooms. Everyone was in uniform and entry level was not an option. She is in the front row, second from right.
 

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I am actually more comfortable with the customary tipping system in Mexico. Here is the basic rule:

"According to the Federal Consumer Attorney’s Office, which works to defend consumer rights, establishments such as restaurants and bars do not have any authority whatsoever to include a tip on your total bill due to the fact that a tip is considered to be voluntary. Any establishment that engages in this type of practice is in violation of the rights of the consumer, which can result in the establishment being reported to the agency. According to the Federal Consumer Attorney’s Office:"

We usually tip very well in Mexico as we know there are not any fees or extras added to the menu.

However, I personally would prefer it was all included in the bill so everyone followed the same guidelines, I think that would be better for the workers.

As I mentioned before, I would not even flinch an eyelid if I saw a mandatory gratuity added to the bill and was clearly marked as such. Sort of like when restaurants add for 5 persons or more (actual number may be variable). But one is seeing all sorts of fees being added with nebulous descriptions, that I am against. Then are the "customary Tip" prompts on a tablet for basically normal expected service, even if one can enter "No Tip", it is still coercion.
 
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I don't care what they advertise. If no one will deliver it to you without a "tip", then it is an unbundled delivery charge. I understand you don't want to pay, so you'll probably have to drive to the restaurant and get it yourself, or do without.


I actually DO drive and pick it up myself... I get it home sooner and hotter and enjoy it more..


It has been a long time since I had delivered food, but it seemed to be slow and with problems... and sometimes not at all... try getting food during the super bowl... heck, even picking it up myself takes awhile...
 
I would gladly pay 18-20% if I could split that up by Front of the House (FOH) and back of the House (BOH). IMO the people who deserve the money are the line cooks, prep cooks, and all the other staff working at the back who made my meal possible.

Carrying a few plates and some drinks is considerably less effort and skill. Reward the people who made the food.


Most restaurants require that the serving staff 'tip out' the folks in the back. I've been told that by people who work as servers in various restaurants.
 
Maybe we don't frequent the same restaurants.

The waiters that I reference are, indeed professional waiters. They can make upwards of $200k to $400k. They're mostly older men and have been going their job for 20 or 30 years, not kids working through college.

They're extremely knowledgeable about food, wine pairing, tableside preparation and often sideline as personal chefs for the wealthy. Food is largely their life.

That has to represent less than 1% of the waiters, waitresses and isn't really a valid argument to bring into a general discussion about tipping :D
 
I actually DO drive and pick it up myself... I get it home sooner and hotter and enjoy it more..


It has been a long time since I had delivered food, but it seemed to be slow and with problems... and sometimes not at all... try getting food during the super bowl... heck, even picking it up myself takes awhile...

+1

I literally cannot remember the last time we had food delivered to our house. MAYBE 30-35 years ago we had some pizza delivered.

If I live close to the food place, it is faster and simpler to go get it. If I live a long distance, it will be cold either way, so why bother.

DS and DDIL live in the near Chicago burbs. They order out a lot. I have never had a delivery there that I thought was great. NEVER hot. Warm if lucky.

I just don't get food delivery.

YMMV.
 
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