Why are people poor???

[jdw_fire]

I disagree. Go to a homeless shelter sometime and see for yourself.

i have and i give to one of them regularly but the people there arent poor when you compare them to the poor of 3rd world countries, they are only considered poor in a country as wealthy as the USA. they are fed, have shelter and have access to welfare here (which they dont even have to work for). and many of them have belongings too, not so in 3rd world countries. the US government has raised the bar as to what people here consider poor soooo, to paraphrase the Bible, "there will always be poor" because as the poor get wealthier the definition of poor will change to someone of higher wealth and that is why there are poor people (we grade on the curve).

 

[Martha]

ithey are fed, have shelter and have access to welfare here

Fed, on occasion. Odds are you will not starve to death though you may be malnourished. You might freeze to death, that does happen. Shelters turn people away all the time. And shelters are only for over night. There is no "welfare" unless you meet the state requirements and in most states you will not meet the requirements if you do not have children, are not elderly, or are not totally disabled as determined by the SSA. Note that the SSA takes about two years to process disability appeals and they deny just about everyone who files due to mental illness. Many never appeal as the mental illness interferes with their ability to move forward with an appeal.

There is no medical assistance or cash assistance or housing for people who don't fit in the right pigeon hole.

 

[W2R]

There is no "welfare" unless you meet the state requirements and in most states you will not meet the requirements if you do not have children, are not elderly, or are not totally disabled as determined by the SSA.

I am not sure if it is true or not, but many years ago I heard that in some states you *have* to have a physical address, not just a PO box or general delivery, in order to get into the welfare system. If true, that would cut the homeless out of that system entirely.

 

[jdw_fire]

There is no "welfare" unless you meet the state requirements and in most states you will not meet the requirements if you do not have children, are not elderly, or are not totally disabled as determined by the SSA.

not so for food stamps(SNAP), a nondisabled single person aged between 16 and 60 can be eligable. in fact you can own a house and a car and still be eligable for food stamps. Eligibility

 

[youbet]

We spend more than enough money on welfare and charity so that there should be no extreme hardship in our country. But politics and greed keep those expenditures from reaching some of those who are not capable of "gaming the system" and if they have no able bodied/minded advocate, they become extremely impoverished. My home town, Chicago, and its infamous politics everyone is familar with, is a great example of this. Welfare money and programs available. But if you're disadvantaged in a way that keeps you from fighting for your share, and you have no advocate, you're toast, likely to be found frozen to death on a grate downtown someplace. Meanwhile, the Ward Committeeman's girlfriend lives in subsidized housing, collects welfare, is provided with food stamps and works as a barmaid for cash.

We focus our charitable dollars on organizations which help the disadvantaged get their slice of the existing welfare/charity pie. DW works with families and special needs children to help them get their share of the help that's there but which is made difficult to acquire by the "authorities."

 

[eridanus]

not so for food stamps(SNAP), a nondisabled single person aged between 16 and 60 can be eligable. in fact you can own a house and a car and still be eligable for food stamps. Eligibility

--------------------
What is a Household?

Everyone who lives together and purchases and prepares meals together is grouped together as one household.
----------------------------

What W2R wrote. Is a "household" a bridge overpass?

No, America doesn't have any poor. Ignore the mentally ill guy pan-handling for money on the side of the road or sleeping on the bench. (Yeah, yeah, you only see able-bodied, obviously lazy, people pan-handling. Ahh, to live in Pleasantville.)

 

[jdw_fire]

--------------------
What is a Household?

Everyone who lives together and purchases and prepares meals together is grouped together as one household.
----------------------------

What W2R wrote. Is a "household" a bridge overpass?

No, America doesn't have any poor. Ignore the mentally ill guy pan-handling for money on the side of the road or sleeping on the bench. (Yeah, yeah, you only see able-bodied, obviously lazy, people pan-handling. Ahh, to live in Pleasantville.)

a "household" can be a single guy or gal! and to ur "pleasantville",[MODERATOR EDIT], read the requirements

 

[eridanus]

a "household" can be a single guy or gal! and to ur "pleasantville",[MODERATOR EDIT], read the requirements

I read the requirements. They don't send food stamps to "I-40, Exit 256 Overpass."

Bottom line: People go hungry in America. People in America sleep on the ground. That's reality.

 

[jdw_fire]

I read the requirements. They don't send food stamps to "I-40, Exit 256 Overpass."

did you read this?

Some States allow homeless households a set amount ($143) for shelter costs;

Bottom line: People go hungry in America. People in America sleep on the ground. That's reality.

and i didnt say there werent, in fact if you look at 1 of my previous posts i said

i have and i give to one of them regularly

speaking of shelters. what i said was

but the people there arent poor when you compare them to the poor of 3rd world countries

 

[eridanus]

did you read this?

Woo! $143 for shelter costs. They can get a 3-bedroom apartment for that subsidy. Problem solved.

but the people there arent poor when you compare them to the poor of 3rd world countries

By what measure? Are you talking sheer numbers? Dying from exposure with used Adidas sneakers on your feet doesn't change the fact that you died.

 

[eridanus]

I stand corrected. A homeless person can get food stamps.

 

[uofmbish]

By what measure?

Seriously? By just about any measure that you want to look at. Access to clean drinking water, access to free education, access to free healthcare at an ER, access to homeless shelters, police protection, life expectancy, income, etc etc.

Probably the easiest way to see the evidence is to look at the millions of people that risked their lives to be poor in this country illegally. How many homeless people are hopping on rafts hoping to drift to Haiti or Cuba?

I'm not saying life is easy for the poor in the US, but it isn't even comparable to being poor in a third world country.

 

[eridanus]

Seriously? By just about any measure that you want to look at. Access to clean drinking water, access to free education, access to free healthcare at an ER, access to homeless shelters, police protection, life expectancy, income, etc etc.

Fair enough.

 

[jdw_fire]

Woo! $143 for shelter costs. They can get a 3-bedroom apartment for that subsidy. Problem solved.

no (and if you had actually read the requirements you would know that wasnt referring to a subsidy but used for calculating net income), but the fact that it was in the requirements means they DO give food stamps to homeless people.

 

[tryan]

Bottom line: People go hungry in America.

Having rented homes to countless families below the poverty line over the last 20 years, I'ld say there is more of an obesity problem than a "hunger" problem among the poor.

 

[bosco]

The callousness of some of the people on this board never ceases to amaze me.

It's one thing to admit that you believe that anything you worked for is yours and yours alone, and that you did it without any help from anyone or from the government. If you can really justify a philosophy that feels good about stepping over bodies on the street because you believe that they had the same opportunities of you but were too lazy to capitalize on them, then live in your dream world. You are making questionable judgments about the mental, emotional, and spiritual state of other people, but at least there is no empirical evidence to the contrary since all is part of the "inner word." Of course, this ignores the question of such people's children and their "original sins."

However, to argue that poverty and it's attendant suffering doesn't really exist, and furthermore and that it's all much ado about nothing--this blows me away.

Some of you must lead very sheltered, unobservant lives. Keep your blinders on and keep telling yourself you are where you are due to your own merits.

 

[bosco]

Having rented homes to countless families below the poverty line over the last 20 years, I'ld say there is more of an obesity problem than a "hunger" problem among the poor.

The fact that you put quotation marks around 'hunger' leads me to believe that you don't think malnutrition and obesity can coexist?

Nutritional foods cost more money. The cheapest foods provide empty calories. It takes far more calories of these kinds of foods to constitute anything approaching adequate nutrition.

So perhaps the obesity among the poor is somewhat economically determined. I'm sure some of it is educational as well, but in some ways, people with less money have a harder time affording food that will help them not to be obese. They also may live in neighborhoods not conducive to jogging, can't afford the health club, and may not own bicycles.

DW and I are far from health-food nuts, nor are we vegetarians. We recently totalled up all our grocery bills and were quite surprised that fresh vegetables by far constituted the highest percentage. Vegetables are the most nutritionally dense food (most nutrients per calorie).

 

[Keim]

I used to work at a homeless womens shelter. I was frequently surprised by how many were, err, heavyset. One day I asked the staff counselor. Her theory was that these people tended to eat more because of a feeling of scarcity. That is, they were afraid the food wouldn't always be there to consume, so enjoy it while you can. Seemed as good a theory as any other to me.

I find what I'm reading in this message board to be quite amazing.

It seems inarguable to me that there are poor in the US. Do we have the same grinding poverty as some 3rd world countries? Not at first blush. But that is not to say the poor in the US do not suffer horribly:
Do some poor in the US suffer from malnourishment? Check.
Do some poor in the US have nowhere to live, and no access to local
shelters? Check.
Do some poor in the US die from exposure? Check.
Do some poor in the US have inadequate or no healthcare? Check.
Do some poor in the US have inadequate access to quality education?
Check.
I am sure the list could go on much longer.

Those of you that are arguing that the US Gov't and Non-Governmental Entities have many services available to the poor (soup kitchens, shelters, etc.) need to realize that most poverty isn't just in our cities-where these amenities are likely to be. Most poverty is in our rural areas, where these services are not offered. To compound that, the rural poor can not afford the transportation to get into the cities where these services are offered.

Most of us on this board have no idea how blessed we are.

 

[unclemick]

Having rented homes to countless families below the poverty line over the last 20 years, I'ld say there is more of an obesity problem than a "hunger" problem among the poor.

To repeat an ancient post - Nat Geo or some such did a ?Pima Indian study Mexican and U.S. sides of the border - the Mexican side having 'the lower standard' of living and closest to the 'old diet and lifestyle.' The visual difference was stunning. No need to mention medical, perceived quality of life, etc.

Which brings me to one of my early hero's - up there with Monty Python's Four Yorkshiremen et al. Tom and his wife both retired with small pensions - lived 'winters' in a small Mexican village without electricity, running water/indoor plumbing or any of that silly stuff - cooked on a flat rock over a fire soo to speak. When the snow melted in the Rockies they crossed the border to fire up their Winnie(kept at a friends) and headed north to enjoy summer.

I used to get evil looks when it appeared I was even contemplating taking our LBYM to that level.

heh heh heh - to stir the pot a little - there is poor and then there is poor - and then and then there is LBYM agressively as in 'cheap SOB.' - with style of course.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Poverty now comes with a color TV

Poverty now comes with a color TV - MSN Money

 

[Bikerdude]

You don't see these signs on the Mexican side of the border.

 

[Westernskies]

You don't see these signs on the Mexican side of the border.

...If you did they would look like this.

 

[haha]

Nutritional foods cost more money. The cheapest foods provide empty calories. It takes far more calories of these kinds of foods to constitute anything approaching adequate nutrition.

Give me a break. Look at any thread where people are discussing the vanishingly low amounts that they spend on food. These are millionaires, on this board! Some may be a little unbalanced emotionally, but malnourished I doubt. In fact, they often tell us how much better their 40 cents a day spent on beans and rice nourishes them than the nasty old meat and veggies that some of the rest of us eat.

So beans and rice is good for millionaires, but makes poor people fat and malnourished? My heavens!

Ha

 

[Gumby]

You don't have to believe me or Bosco that healthy, low calorie food costs more. The USDA says so too.
Healthy, Low-Calorie Foods Cost More on Average

Quote from the linked article:

"If you have $3 to feed yourself, your choices gravitate toward foods which give you the most calories per dollar,'' Drewnowski said. "Not only are the empty calories cheaper, but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Fresh vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods."

 

[eridanus]

"If you have $3 to feed yourself, your choices gravitate toward foods which give you the most calories per dollar,'' Drewnowski said. "Not only are the empty calories cheaper, but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Fresh vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods."

Communist propaganda!

Not to mention that, for some, healthy food is simply not available.

Peer Reviewed: Diabetes Risk and Obesity in Food-Insecure Households in Rural Appalachian Ohio

"The relationship of obesity and food insecurity may be related to the low cost of energy-dense foods and reinforced by the pleasing taste of sugar and fat (27); however, food-insecure women do not seem to consume more high-fat, high-sugar, empty-calorie foods than their food-secure counterparts (28). "