Help! I hate my job

mickj said:
My update...

I would say I have lived through depression at this job all this time...
I have looked into several other career/job options and I can't see anything that provides the money I need and/or some expectation that it would be more satisfying than what I am currently doing.

Even more depressing for me is the inability to get out of debt, I am stuck at the same debt level... not really going up but not down either. Retirement accounts are growing but that isn't much consolation when I realize I have 20+ years left of work.

Any ideas:confused:
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Yes, but you aren't going to like it. This is how I got out of debt.

After paying to your retirement accounts, you have a certain amount of money left as take-home pay each month.

Take that sum, and divide it into three equal piles. One pile goes towards housing, one pile goes towards all other living expenses, and one pile goes towards your future.

And don't tell me you can't live on less - - you can. Get more roommates, and get your clothes at goodwill. If you truly feel that you cannot live on less (translation: you just don't want to live on less), then you need to moonlight so make your choice. No further debt is allowed and you have to live on these amounts and not one cent more.

Now, you can use the pile that goes towards your future, to pay off your debt while you create no further debt.

Once you have paid off your debt, you will have a lot more available and you can start investing and so on.
 
Want2retire said:
And don't tell me you can't live on less - - you can. Get more roommates, and get your clothes at goodwill. If you truly feel that you cannot live on less (translation: you just don't want to live on less), then you need to moonlight so make your choice.
Click to expand...

I second the above.

I'm sure you can live on less, since your original post said: "I have almost doubled my salary since I started working 6 1/2 years ago". Obviously your basic living expenses didn't double during that time period, so you must have things that you can cut back on, if you're serious about wanting to eliminate your debtload.

Of course, if you just want to complain, no changes are necessary. The ball's in your court.
 
Continue the soul searching: What would you do if you suddenly found yourself out of work due to a downsizing? Have you looked into treating the depression? I could get thrown off the board for saying this: Can you borrow from the retirement account? Good luck and keep us posted.

Your situation reminds me of myself when I wanted to work in international banking--I found I could make more money 3/4 time elsewhere, which is what I did for 20 years and then found a job I really wanted.
 
Debt is volunteer slavery. Get out now even though it might/will involve some short term suffering. Stay out of debt at all costs after you arrive. Being out of debt is the best feeling there is and allows you the freedom to choose your own path for the future.
 
As others have mentioned -- debt will keep you imprisoned with a job you hate.

For me, the Quest for FIRE isn't specifically about not working any more...it's about the ability to leave a soul-sucking j*b on MY terms. It's about the ability to take a pay cut to do something you'd much rather be doing.

Debt puts a floor on how much of a cut in pay you can take -- thus, you have to stay with the "highest bidder" to stay afloat...meaning a job you hate. A few years ago, my employers had golden handcuffs on me. Since then, we've simplified, downsized to a small house with low taxes and utilities and no mortgage. We have no debt (other than what we spend on the CCs paid in full each month).

As a result, I could lose my job tomorrow and take a new one at 1/3 the pay...and we'd make it. The j*b isn't so horrible that I won't keep feeding the FIRE kitty in the meantime. But if it happens...we're ready. We've downsized and simplified and eliminated all our debts. As mentioned above, it's a very liberating feeling to know that you won't have creditors hounding you at every step if you lose your job or take a pay cut to pursue something preferable.

If you have $1000 a month in debts, that's an extra $1000 in after tax income you MUST have to get by (probably close to $20,000 a year). Eliminating those debts will allow you to do something else in your life without NEEDING that extra $1000 in a job that makes you miserable. Getting out of debt is NOT easy, but very much worth the struggle.
 
Not that is is teaching us any lesson... but my father-in-law passed away recently. Since we have been able to mantain our debt level for several years and at least not get into more debt, we are hoping that what is left from his estate will almost completely pay off our debt (except for the house.)

To the posters who state that I could live on less if I really wanted to, of course it is true. We all make choices. I have made mine and I accept full responsibility. Thanks for everyone who posted. It is nice to have comments good/bad and indifferent.

I have sought some help with the depression, I don't know if I didn't stick with it long enough or what but at the time it seemed to make things worse :-(

I believe that 90% of my depression comes from the boredom at work, when you do something you don't think is valuable it is hard to feel much self worth.

I think I have always struggled with depression, or at least from early adolescence. I hope that I can find a way out. It isn't easy but I do agree, it is worth it.

Thanks again
 
Sorry to hear about your father-in-law.

mickj said:
... <snip> I believe that 90% of my depression comes from the boredom at work, when you do something you don't think is valuable it is hard to feel much self worth...<snip>
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I have no idea what type of work you do, but do you have an option for some type of less radical change - something like a lateral move? How about different project (same job function) or different job function within the same dept/company? It may be easier to move within the dept/company than going through a full-blown job change, but may result in somewhat "fresh" workload/less boredom.
 
mickj said:
I believe that 90% of my depression comes from the boredom at work, when you do something you don't think is valuable it is hard to feel much self worth.
Click to expand...

I think that the key for some of us is to base our self worth on something other than our job.

I can't imagine thinking I was a worthless person just because of being bored at work. I don't have, and have never had, that luxury. Life just never seems to entertain me in the manner that I might like. ;)
 
mickj said:
I can't see...that it would be more satisfying than what I am currently doing.
Click to expand...

reading this thread makes me think debt is only part of the cause of the op's misery. the other parts, outside of the self-diagnosed inherent depression, might include the job but, i suspect, also fire itself.

i stayed out of debt throughout my working life but also i had never considered fire until six months before i quit. if you always live below your means, which i did--not because that is what i thought i was doing; i simply always thought that saving money was a part of living within my means--then you would naturally be working towards fire, whether it happens to happen or not.

but fire considerations cut both ways. i've read impressive posts by many here who kept fire in mind throughout their careers and it helped them stay on track to that goal. but for someone like me who is not all that goal-oriented, had i considered fire earlier on, i would have just spent my life being teased and possibly frustrated when the tease no longer turned me on.

what is a goal to some is an obstacle to others. fire can be a hurdle or it can become a firewall.
 
mickj said:
My update...

I would say I have lived through depression at this job all this time...
I have looked into several other career/job options and I can't see anything that provides the money I need and/or some expectation that it would be more satisfying than what I am currently doing.

Even more depressing for me is the inability to get out of debt, I am stuck at the same debt level... not really going up but not down either. Retirement accounts are growing but that isn't much consolation when I realize I have 20+ years left of work.

Any ideas:confused:
Click to expand...
If debt is basically stagnant (not going up/down), then one has to get rid of services that one can get rid of debt.
For example, is it really necessary to have cable, if it's costing you $1-$2/day, if you could buy an antenna that can receive TV signals through the air?
Or, if you have a cell phone AND a landline, couldn't you easily get rid of one of them (we're seriously thinking about getting rid of the landline).
Cutting back on going out, or groceries can usually (but not always) be done.
 
I agree with most of the other posters about your debt situation. Only you (and spouse) can deal with something like that, but it takes a decision, and then execution. If you have not executed, then you have not truly decided. A wise onld man once told me, decide what your decision is going to be before you have to make it. For example, if you don't want your credit card balance to go up, decide not to use the credit card when you are shopping. Check your wallet, and if there is no cash, make sure you have already decided you can't have the targeted item because you have decided not to use the card. It works...see W2R's post...she just decided, and that was half or more of the battle.

On the "hate your job" front, I would say that if you can't reduce your debt where you are, and can't make more elsewhere, STAY PUT until you learn to control debt better. BUT, you MUST figure out a way to deal with your work. I suggest figuring out what you like about it, and what you don't like about it. Tune out the things you don't like and focus on those you do.

I kind of suspect that there are some deeper issues. For example, maybe you don't REALLY know what you want. For example, you want FIRE, but you want the toys and evenings out as well. If reality says you can't have both, which have you chosen? I also kind of feel that perhaps there is an issue of not seeing eye-to-eye with spouse about a few things, FIRE and debt being a couple of them. Not my business to pry, but I suspect.

Suggestion: kwitcherbellyachin', sit down and figure a few things out (what you really want as a couple/family, options on how you might get there, etc), make some decisions, make a plan, then execute. Plan the work, then work the plan. Sure a few bumps will come in the road, and you might fall off the "no debt" wagon a time or two over the next 10-20 years. When you do, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back on the wagon.

R
 
If you hate your job because of conditions that are endemic to your field then you need to consider a new career. If it's just your particular office change offices or companies!

I have recently had a few friends at work have very serious personal or family problems, compounding the misery they already felt from unhappiness with their job... I was similarly going thru a lot... What I discovered was that the only thing you CAN control is your job... You can't get rid of a family illness or pesky in laws... You can choose your job situation....
 
I was seriously looking into starting another career before my father-in-law passed away. I think I do focus on my job as something I could change because there are other things in my life that cause a lot of stress and anxiety but I don't have a lot of control over. I realized that changing careers would probably be a bad thing.. lower pay, possiblity I would like it even less, and increased personal stress... I don't deal with change very well. So I know I need to suck it up and make the best of it but I have been saying that for years now.

We have made plans in the past to really stick to a budget but for whatever reason it hasn't worked. Just like focusing on FIRE too much can make you unhappy.. focusing too much on getting out of debt, when it will be years away, can really drag me down.

Man, I feel like such a whiner.
 
Do not just take a wild leap. You could wind up worse off. Remember changing jobs is stressful until you get established. Try to determine if your dissatisfaction is with the career or the company? Take stock in your skills and identify your wants in a job. Then consider your options.

If you think you have a skill gap, then consider going to night school to fill the gap. If you are bored, that will solve that problem. It might help you to broaden your horizons also.

I know that is basic advice and doesn't help you solve your immediate problem... but you are not trapped. Just keep your expectations real.

Good luck.
 
This is the age old question of live for today, or live for tomorrow. I would hope by now that everyone here understands their own mortality. But at the same time it is nothing we should be in fear of. Our mortality is what gives us the impetus to get up in the morning and get things done. Let's face it, if we all knew we were going to live forever, then people would probably have no incentive to achieve things in life. In that case there really would "always be tomorrow".
With all of the above said, I think it is very important to live by the mantra, "Live for today, but plan for tomorrow." At one extreme, you can pour every nickle you possible can into 401k, IRA's, bank accounts etc. But if something did in fact happen to you and you could never enjoy any of it, you might feel it to be a wasted life. At the other extreme is the person that believes there is "no tomorrow" for them, and so they spend every nickle they ever make, and often go into debt to support the fun time they are having. These folks usually have a very tough life when they actually DO get older, as they never planned for that possiblility.
I think finding that balance is very important. You calculate that to buy that "really nice" car, you might have to work 2 extra years before FIRE. Maybe that is worth it for you.... but maybe not. Even though I really do want to retire early, I do not think that desire will ever outweigh my need to have some fun on occasion. Like everything else in life... there is a price to pay.... all we have to do is figure out if it is a good "deal" for us or not. I have seen folks that decided to work 80+ hours a week for a decade in their 20's to achieve a financial goal they had. I think that is a crazy way to live your live... but that is just my opinion... we all have to figure out for ourselves when that price is "too high", or just right... :)
 
armor99 said:
This is the age old question of live for today, or live for tomorrow. I would hope by now that everyone here understands their own mortality. But at the same time it is nothing we should be in fear of. Our mortality is what gives us the impetus to get up in the morning and get things done. Let's face it, if we all knew we were going to live forever, then people would probably have no incentive to achieve things in life. In that case there really would "always be tomorrow".
With all of the above said, I think it is very important to live by the mantra, "Live for today, but plan for tomorrow." At one extreme, you can pour every nickle you possible can into 401k, IRA's, bank accounts etc. But if something did in fact happen to you and you could never enjoy any of it, you might feel it to be a wasted life. At the other extreme is the person that believes there is "no tomorrow" for them, and so they spend every nickle they ever make, and often go into debt to support the fun time they are having. These folks usually have a very tough life when they actually DO get older, as they never planned for that possiblility.
I think finding that balance is very important. You calculate that to buy that "really nice" car, you might have to work 2 extra years before FIRE. Maybe that is worth it for you.... but maybe not. Even though I really do want to retire early, I do not think that desire will ever outweigh my need to have some fun on occasion. Like everything else in life... there is a price to pay.... all we have to do is figure out if it is a good "deal" for us or not. I have seen folks that decided to work 80+ hours a week for a decade in their 20's to achieve a financial goal they had. I think that is a crazy way to live your live... but that is just my opinion... we all have to figure out for ourselves when that price is "too high", or just right... :)
Click to expand...
(emphasis mine)

Hey, even those of us who tend towards pretty extreme LBYM DO have some fun on occasion!!

Think of all the things that you could do to have fun, and that you want to do sometime in your life to have fun. Sometimes it is worth doing those that cost less, first, in order to achieve your financial goals. But never, never entirely stop doing something fun on occasion!

Just be sure to do enough introspection to make sure you are not using "having fun on occasion" as an excuse for succumbing to Madison Avenue inspired consumerism. You don't HAVE to participate in that to have fun.
 
Want2retire said:
(emphasis mine)

Hey, even those of us who tend towards pretty extreme LBYM DO have some fun on occasion!!

Think of all the things that you could do to have fun, and that you want to do sometime in your life to have fun. Sometimes it is worth doing those that cost less, first, in order to achieve your financial goals. But never, never entirely stop doing something fun on occasion!

Just be sure to do enough introspection to make sure you are not using "having fun on occasion" as an excuse for succumbing to Madison Avenue inspired consumerism. You don't HAVE to participate in that to have fun.
Click to expand...

Well said. Sometimes I think I border on the obsessive in terms of the Quest for FIRE, and I have to check myself a little bit. Although I'm distancing myself more and more from the consumerist mentality -- saving up and living more simply, both components in helping achieve FI -- I don't ever want to get to the point of being miserly (as if my wife would let me).

As much as I am "buying" back my future freedom in my aggressive saving and investing, I have to always remind myself: I don't KNOW if I'll be here to tomorrow to enjoy it. I KNOW I'm here today. So I don't want to put *all* of my eggs in the tomorrow basket. I can leave a few in the "today" basket as well and help life become more enjoyable and bearable until I'm comfortably FI. I'd rather have 10 more reasonably enjoyable and bearable years until FI than 5 deprived and unbearable ones.
 
Let's try this from a slightly different angle.
I gave this advice to my kids.
1) if you have a burning desire to do something ... like Dr., teacher, marine biologist, ... whatever then go ahead and pursue it with all your passion ...
2) if you don't, then figure out what you don't HATE that will pay you a lot of money and then go ahead and pursue that with all of your passion ... not because you have a passion for it... but because the benefits that it will bring will be your reward
Neither of my kids had a burning desire ... so they went for the bucks.
Neither of them regreted it (although my DD gave it up for the love of her life and to take care of my grandson :D).

If you have something you are passionate about, ... go for it.
If not then maximize your income and enjoy the fruits of your labor ... after paying yourself 1st (401k, taxable investments, ...etc.)
IMO, You don't have to love what you do... you just can't hate it.
I also find that if it brings you lottsa bucks ... it's hard to hate something.
But if you truly do hate it ... go look for something that fulfills #2.
Best of luck to you.
 
megacorp-firee said:
Let's try this from a slightly different angle.
I gave this advice to my kids.
1) if you have a burning desire to do something ... like Dr., teacher, marine biologist, ... whatever then go ahead and pursue it with all your passion ...
2) if you don't, then figure out what you don't HATE that will pay you a lot of money and then go ahead and pursue that with all of your passion ... not because you have a passion for it... but because the benefits that it will bring will be your reward...

If you have something you are passionate about, ... go for it.
If not then maximize your income and enjoy the fruits of your labor ... after paying yourself 1st (401k, taxable investments, ...etc.)
IMO, You don't have to love what you do... you just can't hate it.
I also find that if it brings you lottsa bucks ... it's hard to hate something.
But if you truly do hate it ... go look for something that fulfills #2.
Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...


Very well said. I have to remember this to help keep my perspective. I don't "hate" my job, but it sure doesn't fire me up every morning, either. Thanks megacorp-firee...
 
I would think that having debt could be causing some depression. Maybe consider reducing the retirement contribution for a while in order to alleviate the debt completely? With the debt gone, you might feel free to look at other job possibilities. Good luck!
 
Oldbabe said:
I would think that having debt could be causing some depression.
Click to expand...

It probably depends upon one's personality. I know that having any debt would drive me nuts; but many people seem to be quite comfortable owing very large sums.
 
Update

After leaving work for over a year, due to severe anxiety attacks and depression. I have been back for several months. All the old problems are still there but I suffer through each day and try to go back the next. Some days are slightly better than others, but none are good. No medication, counseling, or even not having to go to work for over a year really helped. So I guess I know that the job isn't the cause of all my problems.
 
Sorry that you are having this trouble. It must be very difficult.

Ha
 
Wish we had a better answer, but everyone has to find their own coping mechanisms for the difficult elements in their lives. I sometimes feel like you do, but with family, not the job.
 
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