Inheritance means test by relatives.

I don't think he should help any of the grandkids.

But now you are telling him what to do, and it is his money. Sorry, but from what I've just read I think you've already pushed too hard and created a divide.

These things must be handled delicately.” (Had to throw in a Halloween/witch reference).

I have not gone to any family functions because I think it makes me feel like a fool. I (did) work 2 jobs, make good decisions and the BK niece1 husband and niece2 internet boyfriend will be sitting at the table yukking it up. Watching my parents fawn over these 2 losers is more than I can stomach.

Ahhh... OK, I've got an approach for you that avoids the direct conflict of who gets what - and I bet this gets closer to your "heart" (and closer to my situation also):

This is along the lines of samclem's suggestion of discussing how your will will affect your children. You can tell your parents that it is becoming very difficult and awkward to attend these family gatherings. You are afraid that those nieces and their significant others are setting a bad example and are a bad influence on your children. You want your children to learn that they need to get educated and/or learn a skill, work hard, and be productive and responsible for themselves. Yet, they go to this gathering and see people living the high life by taking from others rather than contributing. It concerns you, and you want to do your best to surround your children with positive, not negative role models.

But you have to get the lines of communication open, sounds like they've been shut down. Nothing's getting fixed in that case.

-ERD50
 
DW still communicates with my mom. She spent a couple of hours discussing it and declared, 'She just does not get it.'.

Sorry about your situation...if you can't talk to your folks, maybe you should tell your kids to ask for their inheritance early...
 
OK, that adds some clarity. I thought your request for help for your son was more hypothetical than an actual need. I'm assuming you asked sincerely and not sarcastically.

That seems to boil down to a relationship problem between your dad and your part of the family. Or, your dad just feels that you could help your son if that is what is needed and he could then save his resources for the other grandkids who he might feel are in greater need.

These are tough situations. I'm sure your dad feels like he is doing the right thing and probably can't understand your concern since you are doing well in life. There's little you can do about that. Despite the fact that you dislike your nieces, who you view as irresponsible, receiving aid from your dad, you'll probably either have to blow it off or carry it as a grudge. I know what I'd do, but I'm not you.

There isn't that much money involved, keep that in mind as you go forward.
 
How to tell your not the favorite
 

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Q2. My son lives in Colorado and pays over $1000/month rent. Can he expect some help like you have done for my other 2 sibling’s kids. A. You have plenty of money. Help him yourself. I don’t plan on helping any of your kids
...
That is when I asked about helping him. The response was 'never', help them yourself. That was the last I talked to him.

Your old man has clearly made up his mind. I don't think there is much to discuss anymore (it's his money after all). You've been slapped in the face, and now it's up to you to decide whether you're gonna take it or not.

I am a family guy, but this would seriously spoil even the strongest of relationships for me.
 
I empathize with what you are going through. I had a power-tripping old man in my life (FIL). I saw the angst he put his children through in order to hold and manipulate the reins of power in their lives.

I just kept focusing on my own life, my work, retirement savings plans, etc. I don't want to dance with a dysfunction family system. Doing so diminishes me on a very deep level.

For my own children, "even-Stephen," (as Grandma used to say) is what my plan is. Inheritances will be distributed evenly, not based on behavior.
 
So, money = love.

"Well, the old man's gone now. I'm sure glad I decided not to go to Christmas over at his place all those years, I really showed him. Yep, I could have been bigger and let him know that his relationship was more important to me than money, but that would have showed I was weak--nothing but a patsy. Those other kids eating turkey that they didn't earn--I just couldn't bear to see that.

I still can't figure out why he cut me out of all the goodies . . . "
 
So, money = love.

"Well, the old man's gone now. I'm sure glad I decided not to go to Christmas over at his place all those years, I really showed him. Yep, I could have been bigger and let him know that his relationship was more important to me than money, but that would have showed I was weak--nothing but a patsy. Those other kids eating turkey that they didn't earn--I just couldn't bear to see that.

I still can't figure out why he cut me out of all the goodies . . . "

Yeah...... ! You were entitled to your share from the bum, but he just didn't get it! Now your periodic trips to pee on his grave are much more fulfilling than those ugly holiday family gatherings could have ever been.
 
... You've been slapped in the face, and now it's up to you to decide whether you're gonna take it or not.

I am a family guy, but this would seriously spoil even the strongest of relationships for me.

Can only speak for myself, but I'd still make an effort to communicate how this affecting all involved (your kids see slackers get the 'goods'). Focusing on the actual $$ isn't going to help, IMO.

I empathize with what you are going through. I had a power-tripping old man in my life (FIL).

It's not clear to me that this is "power tripping" on the old man's part. It might be, but I suspect it is really more of he sees a "need" in one area and not in the other. I agree that causes problems, but I won't attribute it to "power-tripping" rather than just not looking at the big picture w/o further evidence.

So, money = love.

...

I still can't figure out why he cut me out of all the goodies . . . "

If it's all about the money I agree, gotta get over it, shutting them out of your life is not a "solution". But if it is about setting examples for your children, and depending on just how blatent the bad behavior is on the part of these relatives, I can see just having to "say no" to family gatherings. But then, make a n extra effort to visit when those people are not around.

Hey, didn't Ann Landers get paid to write stuff like this??!! ;)

-ERD50
 
Beginning with college my folks did not treat us (5) “equally”, and even now some get substantial help they don’t need. I have discussed this in detail with my mother, understand how some folks can be manipulative, see how clearly (and painfully) she is aware of this, and reassure her that she should not feel badly for not wanting to reject some requests, regardless of their nature.

This is a situation where everyone loses. It takes a lot of effort, maturity and a selfless attitude to avoid that. Jayc, you may never feel good about this, and it may indeed be manipulation. The question is – already asked above – what are you going to do? Your father has made his choice. You know he is not infallible. Is the money so important is comes between you?

What about the niece? And her parents? Perhaps it's my background, but when I see a situation like this I take a hard look at the beggars, not the donors.
 
Situations like this can rip families apart. Unfortunately, "fairness" is not a requirement for parental decision making. So long as he is not doing anything illegal, Dad has the right to do whatever he wants, even if it's stupid.

My concern would be to ensure that Dad knows he is putting himself in the way of elder abuse by giving in to the demands/requests of his less financially savvy relatives. In the OP's situation (which I have never had to face) I would ask the hard questions about protecting Dad's finances. I would make sure Dad knows that since he is making the decisions, I would not bail him out if it all goes sour. I would advise him to discuss it with a lawyer. I would outline the risks and document my ideas in a carefully worded letter. And then I would back off.

Unconditional love is very difficult.
 
Originally Posted by samclem
Hopefully he'll only buy the house and let them live in it rather than actually transfer ownership. That will allow him to sell it later if /when things don't work out.
And I think a good son would try to ensure that happened, rather than just "hoping" it happened. Again, it must be done delicately, and if despite that you start getting "none of your business" responses, well, you decide where to draw the line.

And if 'grandpa' does need money guess who he will be calling.
 
And if 'grandpa' does need money guess who he will be calling.

And the answer should be "go get it back from those other relatives you gave it to".
 
It's so much harder to see our children shortchanged than ourselves, without a doubt.

It sounds like the nieces live closer to their grandfather than your son does? And interesting that their father didn't help them out. I wonder if they went crying to grandpa boohooing about how they needed help and grandpa caved in. Maybe grandpa feels guilty and embarrassed by his doting on them but turns hostile about it when someone else brings it up. Maybe the nieces continue to be a bigger part of his life than your children do (for whatever reason) so grandpa is sort of paying for their love.

If it's any comfort, your son will most likely be a stronger person than those two loser nieces. And your relationship with your own children is the most important thing. It would be very hard for me to maintain a cordial relationship with my father, too--I completely understand not wanting to talk with him. It might not be healthy and you might regret it, but I understand it.
 
My sister lives in the same town with our parents. I live 12 hours away. So she has to do more to help them than I can due to her proximity. I often think its unfair to her that I don't help more.

So when they pass away if she gets more than me is it unfair?
 
You can't change what he has done. You may be able to change your feelings about it by accepting that you can't change him.

You don't really expect him to suddenly start sending your son help for his rent so that he doesn't need to have roommates. The fact that he helps support the nieces to such a degree is strange and uncomfortable.

Here's what you can change -
I was at my parent’s house wrapping up a landscape project I had done for them
That's where my change would come. I would be feeling stung that I spent my time, money and effort in doing favors for someone who was treating another branch of the family differently than my own.

That's where you can make a change.
 
My father-in-law constantly gave money (over $400k) to his son (my brother-in-law) over the years. My brother-in-law would always get in trouble ($$ wise). b-in-law & his DW (she probably was the biggest spender) spent like there was no tomorrow. They constantly boasted about their expensive vacations, cars, clothes, and eating out every night.

A couple of years ago, just as the housing market was crashing, b-in-law and his DW wanted f-in-law's last $100k of savings to buy a lot and build house to sell for profit (he's a builder). My father-in-law came to us and asked if we needed any money and we said no you should hold on to it (in case he would need it). He also asked my DW's 2 other siblings if they needed money and they also told him to hang on to it. He was getting older and had some health issues and might need it for his care, it was his last savings but he did have a pension that covered his expenses. My brother-in-law took all the money. My father-in-law told the siblings that they would get 1/3 each once b-in-law was done with the $100k. I told my DW we should have kept the money he offered, and put it away for f-in-law, the 2 other siblings said the same thing. :facepalm: I had told b-in-law not to buy a lot since the market was slowing, prices had just doubled & could not go up any more and rates were going up etc, that they should wait for a better deal in a couple of years. b-in-law said it was different where he lived, that he should be able to sell at good profit. My wife always said that the money was f-in-law's and he could do what ever he wanted with it. But, b-in-law was always asking for money, the other siblings never did.

My father-in-law started having more health issues and needed someone to look after him so my sister-in-law kept him at home and took care of him. She realized that he would need to build him a separate room and larger bathroom. So she went to her brother and said to either build something or give the $$ back by selling the lot. He said it was worth less than he paid for it. They wonder if he even bought a lot, he probably spent it. He was able to build most of the spare room, but his sister got upset at him since he wasn't doing a good job and taking too long. So she got mad and did not have anything to do with him any more and had to finish the project with her own $$.

A year later b-in-law's DW came to us and sis-in-law and wanted $$ since things are slow or if we could buy their $1mill house for 650k, "it was a good deal" she said. We all said no we could not afford it (we are ER and do not want to risk our future!). She said they had drained their kids college $$ and retirement $$ just to make it. I heard later b-in-law was still spending like there's no tomorrow at the time.

His DW left him for someone else, now he is with his kids and he is living in a friends house for free since b-in-law lost his home since he took out a huge mortgage, $550k (probably spent it all).

F-in-law passed away and left life insurance $$ for all the siblings, no one is sure how much $$ so they are just waiting. It's probably not much. b-in-law claims to be at wits end and needs money. DW was thinking about giving her share the LI to him, but I said we would have to pay gift taxes on it. I said we could put in a bond fund and give him the interest. She agreed that he can't deal with $$. Probably shouldn't bail him out since he will just take on more risk and will never learn about living below his means. He's in a bad way since he's starting from scratch only a few years away from retirement age and 4 kids to put through college. Who knows if he's been contributing to SS since he's self employed. Only the one s-in-law is upset at him for basically squandering f-in-law $$ all those years and not helping out when it was needed. Everyone else seems to have forgotten about it but still not willing to help him with $$ since they have their own expenses to deal with. Being frugal, I think it's a shame that he squandered all the money. Oh well.
 
DW was thinking about giving her share the LI to him, but I said we would have to pay gift taxes on it. I said we could put in a bond fund and give him the interest. She agreed that he can't deal with $$. Probably shouldn't bail him out since he will just take on more risk and will never learn about living below his means. He's in a bad way since he's starting from scratch only a few years away from retirement age and 4 kids to put through college.

timekeepr, one other option for sharing your FIL's insurance legacy would be to skip the BIL. DW could set up 529 accounts for each of the 4 kids and retain control. No need to immediately tell anyone that's her plan, either.

For the original poster, I can only offer sympathy. The other posters have provided plenty of good advise and counsel.
 
I disagree. Money speaks louder than words, and JayC has been shouted at. If I had children with different financial situations and saw a need to help one more than another, I would talk very frankly to the one I was thinking of shorting. My plans would not be a done deal; I would be trying to find out his/her feelings about the situation.

Ha
+1 I don't understand why anyone would dick around with their kids like this. Sending a message? Controlling? Tell him how this makes you feel.
 
Jayc--I can certainly understand your feelings on this matter. As you describe it, what your father is doing is very unfair and hurtful. I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes, but I think one never regrets taking the high road.

The only experience I have in this regard is with my own father who outlived my mother by 6 years even though he was 10 years older than she. My parents paid for my sister's and my education in full and made it clear that we could go anywhere we wanted to go for college and they would also pay for grad school. They were big on education. I didn't expect anything beyond that, but Dad would help each of us as he saw fit as the occasion arose. He gave my sister and her husband the down payment for a home because they needed it, and my husband and I did not (although he offered). He bought us a new car and gave us an old car of his at one point in addition to furniture from his home that he was not using and also bought us some new furniture for our first new home. He tried to be very even handed. His will read that my sister and I were to split everything 50/50, which we did very amicably. I was the executrix but did not take any remuneration as I did not want any hard feelings with my sister and her husband.
I would never have asked Dad for anything or inquired into his resources or his intentions. My husband suggested to me at one point that I tell Dad he should do a trust and some estate planning due to his age and poor health, and I told him that he should suggest this to his own well-to-do parents first, and I would consider it. This subject was never raised again.
 
From the outside of the aquarium, it looks like a poor decision at best. :nonono:
Bottom line? Possession is 9/10. His money, his decision.

I saw this type of inequality in my late husband's family's matters. It created a lot of problems that carry through to this day.

Tough as it is to comprehend the decision to use 1/3 of savings for this arrangement, "let it go" as gracefully as possible. :flowers:
 
If I had children with different financial situations and saw a need to help one more than another, I would talk very frankly to the one I was thinking of shorting. My plans would not be a done deal; I would be trying to find out his/her feelings about the situation.

Ha

+1 I don't understand why anyone would dick around with their kids like this. Sending a message? Controlling? Tell him how this makes you feel.

donheff, thanks for referencing back to haha's post. I realize I didn't read it as carefully as I should have the first time - it's really quite profound. I cut it a bit and bolded some for emphasis. It really nails it - there is more than one party affected. And if asked, the affected party might very well say "yes, those people need some help, if you can afford it and you want to do it, you should, don't worry about me, I'm OK".

But to assume it, or just say "you don't need it, you're not getting it" is a problem. Maybe unintentional/unthinking, but a problem none-the-less.

Oops, doorbell, more trick-or-treaters!

-ERD50
 
My sister lives in the same town with our parents. I live 12 hours away. So she has to do more to help them than I can due to her proximity. I often think its unfair to her that I don't help more.

So when they pass away if she gets more than me is it unfair?

Knowing no details beyond those you shared, I don't think it would be unfair if your sister received more than you in inheritance. In fact, your opinion that it's unfortunate that your inability to provide 50% of the parent care effort in order to ease the burden on your sister is very commendable.

Some of the worse cases of parent to child wealth transfer unfairness I've seen involve an adult child who provided extensive care to an aging parent being left out or short-changed in a will. You know..... Sib A takes in aging mom and cares for her for years. Mom leaves everything to Sib B who she thinks needs it more.
 
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