Evolutionary Mismatch

[Elbata]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_mismatch

Until recently, I was a big believer in the "blank slate" hypothesis. That we are born "tabula rasa" and imprinting begins at birth. Now I realize, how wrong I was.

My first inkling was learning about evolutionary psychology and then learning about evolutionary mismatch. It answers so many questions about some of the problems we suffer in developed America. Especially what causes obesity.

Google "evolutionary mismatch" and read a few articles about it. Does it make sense?

When I first started learning about this, I would walk my dogs and watched how my dogs would scratch the ground after doing their business. It wasn't something they were taught. It was evolutionary biology. They learned that if they didn't cover their tracks, they'd be potential food for their predators.

What's interesting also to me, is how this ties into retirement. This whole forum is not only about money and retirement, but life beyond retirement. Looking at it through the lens of evolutionary mismatch can bring a whole different light on the subject.

 

[Oz investor]

i hadn't thought ( or researched ) this field but probably would have had i been exposed to the concept earlier .

( disclosure i am unnaturally slim )

now while i have never been overweight ( for my height ) many of my friends have been large people ( some heavily muscled , some overweight and some both )

as i understand in body fat is nature's way of insuring against famine ( or extreme sickness ) and should a body dig deeply into those fat reserves ( dieting or actual famine ) as soon as the crisis is over the body tries to restore those fat reserves .. PLUS try to add a little more in case the next " famine" is worse. and the cycle seems to repeat .

now back to this mismatched traits theory

IF undesired weight gain is a mismatched trait , is it mismatched for this decade ( or even this century ) or is there a tiny chance civilization will face famines again ( little available food possibly caused by over-population) or has this become an ultimately fatal trait .

a probable off-shoot topic here ( and might also be insightful to members ) are such weight concerns also related to the members being better than average savers ( the body is basically banking extra calories after all , do they instinctively save cash as well )

we could probably rope in type II diabetes into this discussion the Australian natives ( Aboriginals ) are very prone to diabetes and some suggest exposure to rich foods ( now ) compared to their diets as little as 300 years ago , could be the problem their bodies had adapted to pre-colonial food and frequent harsh conditions .

again is this a terrible trait or simply a trait not valuable currently

 

[ER Eddie]

Yeah, we aren't born a blank slate at all. Personality psychology, for instance, shows clearly inborn traits that differ among individuals and genders. And anyone who's raised kids can tell you that they don't come out as blank slates; they are different people, with different personalities and temperaments, right from the start.

I also think about the mismatches between our evolutionary heritage and 1) our standard American diet, and 2) our activities (screen time vs. time in nature). Big mismatches there, with big consequences. Many others as well, such as population density, level of information processed, family structural changes, on and on.

We are all definitely evolved (and/or designed) to be a particular way, both as humans and as individuals.

 

[Nemo2]

And anyone who's raised kids can tell you that they don't come out as blank slates; they are different people, with different personalities and temperaments, right from the start.

I've never had kids, but now, courtesy of DW, I have five granddaughters and have been around their entire lives.

The latest, fraternal twins who will be three this week, are very close to each other emotionally but have absolutely no shared characteristics...in fact they are almost polar opposites in just about every sense, (including physical appearance).

 

[marko]

What's interesting also to me, is how this ties into retirement. This whole forum is not only about money and retirement, but life beyond retirement. Looking at it through the lens of evolutionary mismatch can bring a whole different light on the subject.

The retirement angle might be interesting.

Looking at it from 10,000 years ago, "retiring" isn't in our DNA per se, although I could see how in ancient times those who could no longer directly contribute with true labor were valuable in other ways such as caring for children and teaching the younger generation.

At the same time, people didn't work like we do now. It was more of an opportunistic way of life: you hunted when the antelopes were about, fished when there were fish, you gathered when food was ready; but there was also likely a lot of downtime in between. (?)

Retirement as we think of it is more of an offshoot of the Industrial Revolution, no? Before the 1700's there wasn't much to retire from and early death was often the ultimate rocking chair.

 

[easysurfer]

Hopefully, those folks who decide on cloning their pets don't expect Spot 2.0 to act the same why as Spot 1.0. Though they may look practically identical, their personalities can very well be different.

 

[haha]

again is this a terrible trait or simply a trait not valuable currently

What difference would this make? Unless one is able to live for hundreds of years, only thing that matters for a human is what is happening during his/her life.
Re the blank slate idea, which is many years out of mode, anyone who has children knows that this is a fantasy, as some posters above have noted more eloquently.

Ha

 

[imoldernu]

I just posted some similar thoughts on a different thread, but am thinking it belongs here... so:

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/alexa-poll-update-93342.html#post2095331
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Hope posting it twice doesn't violate rules..
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Try to look forward... ten, twenty, maybe 30 years. Consider the speed-of-light advance of artificial intelligence. Where will we be, when whatever we need to know, will be THERE? What will happen to HISTORY as a guide to learning, understanding and structuring law, politics, governance, and morality? Will thinking and reasoning still be there?... Or, will there be a new unseen replacement that doesn't even rely on words... a flash connection to the brain, that doesn't rely on the spoken word.

Think back to "Hal 9000"... Believe it or not, "2001" was written in 1968... fifty years ago. Imagination run wild in those days. For a review of Wiki, has a well written synopsis of the story.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/2001:_A_...dyssey_(novel)

One far out comment:
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Quote:
The novel acknowledges that evolutionary theory entails that humanity is not the end, but only a step in the process. One way this process might continue, the book imagines, is that humans will learn to move to robot bodies and eventually rid themselves of a physical form altogether.
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Crazy?... probably... I won't be around to see this, but enjoy tweaking my own imagination to look ahead. Many who post here will very likely be around to experience the new world, and like me, will be able to look back at the "good old days".

This is what some of us who are experiencing the drift into senility, do, to pass the time.

 

[BigNick]

I suspect that our evolutionarily programmed lifespan is a lot closer to 50 than 80.

 

[GravitySucks]

I suspect that our evolutionarily programmed lifespan is a lot closer to 50 than 80.

Its probable i would have died at 14 from appendix issues, certainly by 40 without modern antibiotics.
To the OP though, I'm happily famine and draught resistant.

 

[joeea]

Looking at it from 10,000 years ago, "retiring" isn't in our DNA per se, although I could see how in ancient times those who could no longer directly contribute with true labor were valuable in other ways such as caring for children and teaching the younger generation.

That depends.

Some ancient cultures may have "valued" seniors a bit. But many cultures 10,000 years ago would have simply found a place for granny to just take a nice dirt nap. You worked until you died.

Retirement as we think of it is more of an offshoot of the Industrial Revolution, no? Before the 1700's there wasn't much to retire from and early death was often the ultimate rocking chair.

Not quite.

Retirement as we know if (basically funded retirement) started in the late 1800s. In 1889, Otto von Bismarck came up with the concept of pensions - more as a political strategy than as anything compassionate.

 

[Amethyst]

That depends.

Some ancient cultures may have "valued" seniors a bit. But many cultures 10,000 years ago would have simply found a place for granny to just take a nice dirt nap. You worked until you died.

No doubt old people were a luxury, which would get cut the moment food got scarce.

 

[GrayHare]

Given the rapid growth of the human population during the past few thousand years, I would think we as a species are exceptionally well adapted to the conditions that have prevailed on Earth during that time.

 

[ER Eddie]

[....]
This is what some of us who are experiencing the drift into senility, do, to pass the time.

You should write a book, "How to Pass the Time While You Drift Into Senility." I'd buy it. I'm sure it'll come in handy pretty soon.

 

[audreyh1]

No doubt old people were a luxury, which would get cut the moment food got scarce.

I see it a bit dfferently. Older people were valuable in that they were a store of knowledge for a group. There would be lots of important information that needed to be handed down that could improve a group’s survival - both from their personal experience and from group knowledge they had acquired over their lifetime. I notice that with many “primitive” tribal type cultures respect for the elderly seems to be common. Passing down information seems to be given a high priority. If it contributes to group survival, this makes sense.

 

[ER Eddie]

And not just information as in data, but stories. It would be common for elders in a tribe to be the story-keepers. They would serve an important function. I don't think you can reduce it all to just who was strong and/or fertile.

Then again, we're dealing in generalities. I'm sure some tribes discarded their old people.

 

[audreyh1]

And not just information as in data, but stories. It would be common for elders in a tribe to be the story-keepers. They would serve an important function. I don't think you can reduce it all to just who was strong and/or fertile.

Then again, we're dealing in generalities. I'm sure some tribes discarded their old people.

Right - I was definitely including stories in the knowledge passed down, as oral history was an important tradition of primitive societies and they expended effort passing them along. There must have been some benefit.

If taking advantage of what an elder could contribute meant that a given tribe was slightly more successful (more young surviving to reproductive age), you would have more tribes where elders played such a role and were respected. That’s how evolution works.

 

[NW-Bound]

Not all elders are wise old men/women.

Some are just cranky geezers.

 

[aja8888]

Not all elders are wise old men/women.

Some are just cranky geezers.

Plus, I'll bet some of their "stories" were not too accurate.

 

[ER Eddie]

True. But there's a reason why when we personify Wisdom, it's usually in the form of a wise old man or woman. The old folks would be the ones in charge of that -- passing down the accumulated wisdom of the tribe, often in the form of stories or myths. That helps bind the group together in a way little else does.

Again, that's just a generality. I'm sure some tribes killed their old people and served them up in a stew. No AARP back then.

 

[NW-Bound]

Plus, I'll bet some of their "stories" were not too accurate.

Are you suggesting stories told by the Four Yorkshiremen are not accurate?

Elderly people surely have the advantage of experience. Experience is generally useful.

"Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again" --Franklin P. Jones