If the market goes south 20% and I'm down 19% he will still be worth his salt.
Except year in, year out, he probably won't.
Adjusting for risk, active management is likely to trail passive over time.
If the market goes south 20% and I'm down 19% he will still be worth his salt.
If that happens, so what? If I have been behind 1% year over year over year, a win of just 1% every few years does not really help me that much. Consistency is important as is risk-adjusted performance.If the market goes south 20% and I'm down 19% he will still be worth his salt.
Just a thought, but for those who have decided on an FA that charges an annual fee based on AUM, how about a new thread dedicated to how to choose that FA (separate from discussion of should one use an AUM FA or not)?
It seems to me that choosing this person is harder than DIY, so I'm curious how you would go about it, and what suggestions you have for others who are set on this path? Some considerations:
A) Do you expect the FA to:
1) Beat the market after fees/taxes/expenses?
2) Match the market after fees/taxes/expenses?
3) It is OK if you lag the market, you just don't want to deal with it?
For 1 & 2 - how do you go about determining if the FA is capable of that, in up, down and sideways markets?
B) Do you expect the FA to provide other advice, tax planning? Other?
C) Do you expect the FA to just keep you from your own bad decisions, hand holding so you don't sell at the bottom? But if you want to sell at the bottom, what keeps you from firing your FA and just doing it anyhow?
D) Why do you feel an ongoing AUM-charging FA serves you better than a per-hour fiduciary FA?
So nothing there about not using an FA, just questions about how to go about finding one that meets your needs. I'll be glad to "shout down" any "pro-DIY naysayers" (and I'll need to hold my tongue as well), to keep the thread focused. I am curious about it.
Any takers? Feel free to copy/paste the above - I'd start it, but I think it would be better coming from someone who can speak directly to those topics.
-ERD50
I chose my FA based on performance. He handily beat Ed Jones (by a long shot) and Ameriprise (who did nothing)
A) Yes I expect my FA to earn his dough. I want better than market (or same after fees)
B) No.
C) My FA handles my account. I can't do anything with it even if I tried. Can't buy, can't sell can't transfer cash. All needs to get done by them after I request.
D) See above. He is on line and live.
"Based on the history of this topic with this group, I don't think it would be productive.
Count me out."
Just a thought, but for those who have decided on an FA that charges an annual fee based on AUM, how about a new thread dedicated to how to choose that FA (separate from discussion of should one use an AUM FA or not)?
It seems to me that choosing this person is harder than DIY, so I'm curious how you would go about it, and what suggestions you have for others who are set on this path? Some considerations:
A) Do you expect the FA to:
1) Beat the market after fees/taxes/expenses?
2) Match the market after fees/taxes/expenses?
3) It is OK if you lag the market, you just don't want to deal with it?
For 1 & 2 - how do you go about determining if the FA is capable of that, in up, down and sideways markets?
B) Do you expect the FA to provide other advice, tax planning? Other?
C) Do you expect the FA to just keep you from your own bad decisions, hand holding so you don't sell at the bottom? But if you want to sell at the bottom, what keeps you from firing your FA and just doing it anyhow?
D) Why do you feel an ongoing AUM-charging FA serves you better than a per-hour fiduciary FA?
So nothing there about not using an FA, just questions about how to go about finding one that meets your needs. I'll be glad to "shout down" any "pro-DIY naysayers" (and I'll need to hold my tongue as well), to keep the thread focused. I am curious about it.
Any takers? Feel free to copy/paste the above - I'd start it, but I think it would be better coming from someone who can speak directly to those topics.
-ERD50
Van, it looks like you combined some of my reply with a quote from RobbieB's reply, so it is difficult to know exactly what you are saying.
Could you clarify this for us, please?
..... One thing I believe is glossed over by "DIY with index funds is simple" is that the people I know who preach it usually have experience doing it the other way and have learned A LOT from that experience. There is confidence that comes with understanding the lessons of those experiences. ...
..... That confidence, IMO, is necessary to be successful DIY investor, and one doesn't typically get it listening the stories at the ER Pub