Is Amazon anti-competitive ?

[braumeister]

I bought my first books from Amazon in July, 1996. You can look up all your past orders, which is remarkable.

 

[aja8888]

Amazon began selling books online in mid-1995.

They also were an auction site trying to be like eBay. I think I sold a few things on Amazon back then, if I recall (could be mistaken as it could have been eBay). I believe that business quickly fell apart when eBay took off.

When Amazon got into books, I figured they would slide off into the abyss. Goes to show you what I know.

 

[OldShooter]

Amazon began selling books online in mid-1995.

My error. I misread the Wikipedia article.

 

[JoeWras]

I bought my first books from Amazon in July, 1996. You can look up all your past orders, which is remarkable.

Wow! Saw my first order was in Dec 1999. I ordered the book "Beginning Java 2". I think we are up to Java 8 today.

I also think there was a way to order back then as a guest... OR, they may have scrubbed failed orders. I remember the next year ordering a book for my BIL for Christmas in Nov 2000. It said it was in stock when ordering, but then later the status said "Out of stock, waiting new delivery date". Since it was Christmas, I was TICKED. I somehow got it cancelled. This does not show on my record... I guess that makes sense.

Since they failed me, I didn't order again until 2004. This was after hearing everyone chattering about how great they were. My ordering was sporadic until 2012.

Amazing to look at the history.

 

[MichaelB]

I was transferred to the US in mid-97, just as Amazon was picking up speed. Still early internet age, with lots of internet access done from work. Mr. Bezos made a boneheaded move, which was to start publishing on the Amazon home page every day the company with most employees browsing Amazon. As in, “today 11423 AT&T employees browsed our web pages”. Of course, it didn’t take long for my megacorp (along with many others) to prepare a directive to all employees stating web browsing unrelated to work was cause for immediate dismissal.

 

[CaptTom]

This thread came to mind a couple of times in the past two days. I wanted a name-brand 12VDC fan for my boat, which I'd seen and liked on another boat. First stop, manufacturer. $90+. Next stop, my favorite on-line and local boating supply stores. Either not in stock, or $100+. They all charged extra for shipping, and gave no indication when it might arrive. Lastly, I looked at Amazon. $75 each, in stock, fulfilled by Amazon (no third party to deal with) free shipping and 2-day delivery. I'll have them tomorrow. If there's any problem at all, I know Amazon will make it right, no arguing.

I think I gave the other options a pretty fair shake. Amazon came out ahead on product, shipping, cost and customer service. Aren't those the factors we as consumers should use to make our purchasing decisions?

Next purchase, a two-slice toaster. Nothing fancy, just has to work. My old one died. It was a $10 WalMart no-name deal. It lasted 7 years of hard use. I didn't feel at all bad tossing it. Something like this just isn't worth the shipping cost. Back to WalMart. Limited stock of 2-slice toasters for some reason. That's OK, I found one for $19. It was a name brand, had more features and looked much more rugged than the $10 one I'd just tossed. Picked up a few other necessities and groceries while I was there, saving a couple more trips and a bunch of time. Again, I think I did pretty well as a consumer.

I don't really see why I should feel bad about this. Was I supposed to drive to 2 or 3 different downtown Mom-and-Pop shops, spend half the day and twice as much money to get the same stuff? Do Mom or Pop do that for me?

 

[Walt34]

I'll always remember the experience I had, similar to CaptTom's, when a Home Depot opened near our old house in the DC area, and there was some debate about whether the "big box" stores like WalMart and Home Depot were forcing the Mom 'n Pop stores out of business. Needing a new mailbox, I first went to the old-time hardware store (hardwood floors, open bins of bolts and seed, and everything) and found the mailbox I wanted for $15. Then being curious out what Home Depot had to offer, I went there and found the identical mailbox. For $7. So I bought it there and felt not a twinge of guilt about anything. Why should I? What did the old-time hardware store offer me for the extra $8? Not a thing that I could think of.

Not surprisingly, a few weeks later the old-time hardware store closed.

Amazon did much the same thing to other businesses. In another thread I described buying a new carburetor on Amazon for a Honda tiller. The replacement from an authorized Honda dealer, for a genuine Honda carburetor, was close to $60 + shipping. The one from Amazon was $14.79, free shipping, and at least initially, works fine. Some guy in China has a job where he maybe didn't have one before, because of Amazon, and some guy who works (or maybe worked) for Honda lost some hours or maybe was laid off because he was out-competed.

And I got a better value for my money. This is a good thing.

 

[GravitySucks]

I was the opposite when my little neighborhoid hardware store was open.
78 year old couple that had 95% of what i ever needed and only a 1.5 mile walk or ride away.

The wife knew where everything wss and knew what you needed and could advise you on anythong that would come up on a repair. Hubby would cut and thread gas pipe and could tslk for hours. Prices were often 10% higher but it was worth not driving thr 5 miles to Home Depot and wandering around trying to find something. Theyd even loan you a tool if it was somethong you'd never use again.

They retired and sold to a contractor who tried running it but the money for the hours didnt add up. I miss that place. Id much rather walk the dog down there and buy a screw or nut than try rooting through my stock looking for the right one.

I'll always remember the experience I had, similar to CaptTom's, when a Home Depot opened near our old house in the DC area, and there was some debate about whether the "big box" stores like WalMart and Home Depot were forcing the Mom 'n Pop stores out of business. Needing a new mailbox, I first went to the old-time hardware store (hardwood floors, open bins of bolts and seed, and everything) and found the mailbox I wanted for $15. Then being curious out what Home Depot had to offer, I went there and found the identical mailbox. For $7. So I bought it there and felt not a twinge of guilt about anything. Why should I? What did the old-time hardware store offer me for the extra $8? Not a thing that I could think of.

Not surprisingly, a few weeks later the old-time hardware store closed.

Amazon did much the same thing to other businesses. In another thread I described buying a new carburetor on Amazon for a Honda tiller. The replacement from an authorized Honda dealer, for a genuine Honda carburetor, was close to $60 + shipping. The one from Amazon was $14.79, free shipping, and at least initially, works fine. Some guy in China has a job where he maybe didn't have one before, because of Amazon, and some guy who works (or maybe worked) for Honda lost some hours or maybe was laid off because he was out-competed.

And I got a better value for my money. This is a good thing.

 

[OldShooter]

... I got a better value for my money. This is a good thing.

Well, yes, but the closing of neighborhood hardware stores has cost us as well. Not a good thing. The low-margin and space consuming things like glass and screen replacement, hardware assortments of odd knobs and screws, lawn mower blade sharpening, small engine parts & reparis, etc. are gone. These were supported by the neighborhood hardware stores' higher prices on products also sold by the category killers.

Life goes on, of course. Remember Joni Mitchell: " ... you don't know what you've got till it's gone. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot ... "

 

[aja8888]

Try to find a 5/16 fine thread bolt at Home Depot or Lowes. You will find out they only carry "common" size fasteners. Or try to find copper washers. Or.....etc, etc.

You might get lucky at Ace Hardware.

 

[travelover]

Try to find a 5/16 fine thread bolt at Home Depot or Lowes. You will find out they only carry "common" size fasteners. Or try to find copper washers. Or.....etc, etc.

You might get lucky at Ace Hardware.

That is true - the specialty hardware stores like Ace will have it and you will pay dearly for it. That is their business model, low volume and high markup. If both can exist together, it works for me.

 

[REWahoo]

That is true - the specialty hardware stores like Ace will have it and you will pay dearly for it. That is their business model, low volume and high markup. If both can exist together, it works for me.

For me there is also the time/convenience factor. I can drive 16 miles round trip to an Ace hardware (encountering 4 stop signs and almost no traffic) or 26 miles round trip to a Lowe's (encountering 2 stop signs, 18 traffic signals and substantial traffic). On small or high dollar purchases or it is an easy decision, but for something in-between I get hung up trying to make a choice...and find something else to do.

 

[2cheap2eat]

Amazon started when Walmart was king in retail. They came up selling books online and grew from there. Their user experience and personalization sets them apart.

Anti-competitive? Maybe but really their competition was lacking. Also their cloud service is market leading. Microsoft, IBM, Google, etc didn’t think about offering cloud services, that’s ridiculous they allowed an online retailer beat them at their own technology game!!

I respect how Amazon has changed the game. Next up is shipping companies, FedEx UPS USPS have not innovated for years.

 

[aja8888]

Amazon started when Walmart was king in retail. They came up selling books online and grew from there. Their user experience and personalization sets them apart.

Anti-competitive? Maybe but really their competition was lacking. Also their cloud service is market leading. Microsoft, IBM, Google, etc didn’t think about offering cloud services, that’s ridiculous they allowed an online retailer beat them at their own technology game!!

I respect how Amazon has changed the game. Next up is shipping companies, FedEx UPS USPS have not innovated for years.

Amazon started as an auction site, I believe, to go against eBay, but didn't do so well.

 

[2cheap2eat]

Amazon started as an auction site, I believe, to go against eBay, but didn't do so well.

Ah didn’t know that. Respect their game even more then! Similar to MySpace dominated but slacked off, then FB killed them.

15-20 years from now, they dominant companies will change.

 

[OldShooter]

Amazon started as an auction site, I believe, to go against eBay, but didn't do so well.

In business as in life, if you don't make a mistake once in a while, you're not trying hard enough.

Both Amazon and Google have done an excellent job of starting things up. The ideas that work turn into businesses. The ones that fail get criticized by idiots who couldn't sell hot chocolate to Eskimos and couldn't organize a one-car parade. They are called "securities analysts."

 

[aja8888]

In business as in life, if you don't make a mistake once in a while, you're not trying hard enough.

Both Amazon and Google have done an excellent job of starting things up. The ideas that work turn into businesses. The ones that fail get criticized by idiots who couldn't sell hot chocolate to Eskimos and couldn't organize a one-car parade. They are called "securities analysts."

Yeah, I started out s a starting pitcher on my college baseball team in the 1970's. I wanted to play for the Yankees, but ended my career running my Sub S corp providing engineering services to the energy industry.

I have tremendous respect for Bezos for his accomplishments with Amazon.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I have a usually have hard time finding prices lower than Amazon and Walmart for items I buy regularly. I always shop around online, but I end up getting most of what we need from those two. In my shopping habits, ideology has to take a back seat to my retirement budget and not going into B+M stores during the pandemic.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Well, yes, but the closing of neighborhood hardware stores has cost us as well. Not a good thing. The low-margin and space consuming things like glass and screen replacement, hardware assortments of odd knobs and screws, lawn mower blade sharpening, small engine parts & reparis, etc. are gone. These were supported by the neighborhood hardware stores' higher prices on products also sold by the category killers.

Life goes on, of course. Remember Joni Mitchell: " ... you don't know what you've got till it's gone. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot ... "

Thankfully, we are out in the country enough to have TWO small Mom and Pop hardware stores that are within about 5-10 minutes of us. There is a slight premium, but I am fine with that since I am supporting my neighbors. For the more difficult to find items, we do have a Lowe's and a Home Depot that is about 20 minutes away. Best of both worlds!

 

[Walt34]

I have a usually have hard time finding prices lower than Amazon and Walmart for items I buy regularly. I always shop around online, but I end up getting most of what we need from those two.

Interesting. I've more recently started looking more often at places other than Amazon more to just keep 'em aware that there's competition, and finding lots of places that often do better. Home Depot more often than not does significantly better with tools and somewhat with fertilizer, and just yesterday I ordered two hose bib rebuilding kits from Menards, who was cheaper than Amazon even with Menards' shipping charge. But I used Amazon's cc for the 2% cash-back rewards.

A lot of times though I'll admit I just go straight to Amazon especially if it's for some off-the-wall item like a carburetor for a 30-year-old chainsaw that I'd really have to hunt around for. And danged if Amazon didn't have it!

 

[Aegis1961]

IMHO, Amazon is far worse than a grocery store selling a generic version of the same product in a grocery store.
- Amazon made money off you (fees) for selling on their site.
- They collected way more data from you (as a seller) than Safeway could from Proctor and Gamble. With your permission?? (Honestly don't know).
- They are a $multi-billion company (that pays little taxes) VS your small seller, so yes. You get shoved aside and the shear volume of ads for their version in web searches, and within their webpage, will eclipse your own feeble attempts.

 

[BeachOrCity]

It’s a broad question. but it seems like your focus is the selling of products not AWS which is where they make most of their profit.

Amazon has done to web commerce what Walmart did to logistics and the Chinese supply chain. Called it the Walmart effect. Not it’s the amazon effect. Highly beneficial but harmful to sum.

They have made it better for everyone convenience and price wise but at the expense of others who have trouble competing.

There are multiple instances of amazon doing various types of manipulation to favor their own products over 3rd party on their site

Given their market dominance for WEB retail an administration could pursue anti trust by defining what they do as “WEB” retail. If they did this they could force amazon to separate their own product and treat equally to third party.

This is how phone companies used to have to sell dsl. Multiple examples of the government doing this. Like utilities separating power and distribution. So you can pick your power supply

Bottom line is it is up to the government