military enlistment

[REWahoo]

Leonidas,
I agree with much of what you say, however, it is a cult! Recruits are broken in basic, with hard exercise, limited sleep, and often limited time to eat. The are fed a steady diet of 'The Corp' and it last a lifetime...

Careful there Rustic. You'll wake up some night to find your lakeside home surrounded by a bunch of guys with white sidewall haircuts, dressed in cammo wearing dark greasepaint on their faces - and it won't be a rehearsal for an off-Broadway play!

 

[Bestwifeever]

Brighteyes, I don't know how recruiters and those who would be training your stepson in the service deal with young men who don't really want to be there these days. I do know two young men who went into the Navy and one who went into the Army in the last ten years (none of the three went to college first).

One was committed when he went in as his father had served in the Navy and he had heard about it his whole life, and he is still in the Navy, married to a gal he met in San Diego, two kids, very happy, so good ending.

One was completely directionless and was "forced" into the Navy after high school when his father drove him to a recruiting office and kicked him out of the car. He served his four years, learned something about radar, and then used the benefits to get a degree and has a good job today. So good ending.

The third went into the Army as a last ditch effort--I'm not sure he had any commitment at all but it seemed like it was his idea after very troubled teenage years (arrests, drugs, bipolar diagnosis--I imagine there were substantial lies told to the recruiter). He had shin splints and stress fractures from basic training (I should say he said he had these problems) and then although he claimed he received a medical discharge, his mother received a phone call after he had been home for two months asking where the hell he was. He had gone AWOL and once again snowed his parents. He was subsequently awarded a "general discharge," I believe they called it. This outcome added yet another strike on his record.

The other people on this board are a wealth of knowledge about the services, but I thought you'd like to hear these three instances I'm familiar with. I wish your stepson the best.

 

[JustNtime]

Rustic--Just because the Marine corp and cults may employ similar techniques for training new members - that does not make the Marines a cult any more than all cult members are Marines. The other services use similar techniques (yes less extreme), but there is NO home basic training - the online course. Recruits are isolated from friends and families and for the most part only come in contact with similarly isolated/confused individuals, and those with the training and experience to train and motivate them... Sleep is limited, physical exercise required, and someone is almost always watching them to see if remedial training is required. They are tested and evaluate and eliminated as necessary. NO it's not a cult indoctrination, but it will get most folks attention. I have a healthy respect for the other services and have done my time in Joint duty. I never doubted the air force was the best choice for my family and me. If I were single the Navy might look awfully tempting, although I suspect the experience would be much different from the cruise ships I've come to enjoy. IT really depends on the individual and their personal talents.

 

[Bimmerbill]

My Army basic training in 1985 was no picknic either. Limited sleep, non stop exercise, little food. I think they have softenend it up a bit now tho. I don't think they softened up Marine boot camp tho.

I spent 22 years doing Artillery stuff. No direct civilian job. But the leadership and other responsibilities come in handy.

 

[Rustic23]

I stand by my statement. There are more similarities to a cult than training i.e. a marine for life, and almost worship of the corp., to include today, the Marine corp birthday. Just because it walks like a duck does not make it a duck, and just because it is a cult, does not make it bad. While they may not be classified a cult, as a cult generally has some religious content to it, some marines I have met sure seems to think the Commandant is a God, and if he is not their gunny is.

 

[JustNtime]

Rusty; I suppose if one can get past the negative connotations of the term, 'cult', then perhaps you have a point about the marines in a very general sense of the definition. NO not to sense of worship you mention, (seems somewhat atypical and exaggerated from my experience with marines). Of course, similar points(minus worship) could be made about the other military services, the academies, a number of fraternities/sororities, several universities, etc. The marines have some intense training to do(or be ready to do) some pretty intense things. NOT something I'd volunteer for and I'm glad others do, (so I never have to). That's probably how a lot of civilians view all military members...

I was stationed at Lackland for awhile. Looking into the eyes of a new trainee in the first week or two was a little spooky... I can't imagine what the eyes of a marine trainee must look like in those early weeks. In a couple cases when I came up (in uniform) behind a trainee and surprised them, I thought there was going to be involuntary discharge of bodily fluids by them. I know training isn't as tough as it was 10-20-30-40-50 yrs ago, but neither are the recruits. What they do do has been honed over the decades and centuries. They're still pretty good at it and while you may forget many things about your service. I believe very few forget their initial training.

 

[M Paquette]

But speaking as an OOD having trained dozens of OODs, no driving skills required. He doesn't even have to know port from starboard!

Thank goodness for the Chief of the Watch!

 

[lets-retire]

In Vietnam, it was said that an Air Force enlisted was just about the safest job you could get. Major dangers were downtown bars.

I would have to generally agree, but it is still the military. My father was thrown out of his dorms in Vietnam when it was hit with an RPG (I think). My step-father-in-law's dad was blown up in Korea once and Vietnam twice. The poor guy had more metal in him than bone and parts didn't work correctly, because of his close encounters with the explosive types.

 

[Rustic23]

It's all relative. Subs are most likely the safest place in our current conflicts, but one should be aware there are no absolutely safe places in a knife fight. In the end the mission of all the services is to go into harms way.

 

[clifp]

Contrary to popular opinion it isn't all that easy to get into the military. As Sam said all of the services have meet their recruiting goals and are starting to tighten up on things like requiring real High School degrees not GEDs, waivers for drug etc.

I read recently (sorry no link) that less than 25% of young adults between 17 and 24 would qualify, because the aren't smart enough, poor physical fitness, drug or legal troubles, and medical issues including dental problems.

Your Stepson may need to get his act together to even get accepted.

 

[JustNtime]

It's all relative. Subs are most likely the safest place in our current conflicts, but one should be aware there are no absolutely safe places in a knife fight. In the end the mission of all the services is to go into harms way.

There I was bravely protecting the extreme Northern Flank during the first Gulf War. Fearlessly guarding my hoard of Chips and Cookies from the wife and kiddies (who were all suffering from severe withdrawal symptoms after the commissaries shelves all went bare). All of our supply planes diverted to the Sand, left us to scrounge whatever we could find on the local Icelandic economy or the back of our shelves. There's nothing more dangerous than a momma and her cubs in search of any sweet or salty snack they can possibly find. Bravely going where NO man has gone before, I found the most obscure and difficult to find hiding places for this essential booty. Maintaining rations with minimal losses throughout the entire build-up, execution, and mop-up survival was barely achieved. YES, I had some pretty close calls in my career.

Btw: I can assure you not a single Iraqie got by us up in Iceland. We were alert.

 

[Bimmerbill]

I remember eating at an Air Force chow hall and we were all amazed that they had staff that would clear our trays for us.

That was back in the days of 25 cent beers in the Coke machine... in the pilots lounge!

 

[ChrisC]

I remember eating at an Air Force chow hall and we were all amazed that they had staff that would clear our trays for us.

That was back in the days of 25 cent beers in the Coke machine... in the pilots lounge!

On my son's trip to Afghanistan this Spring with the marines, he spent a few days at a U.S. Airforce Base in Kyrgyzstan. He wrote us by email from the Base and mentioned that the Base was like a country club, with outstanding athletic facilities and other recreational amenities, against the splendid background of a mountainous area. And the Airforce air-women, he remarked, were a great sight for sore and worrisome male marine eyes.

I'm sure life at that Airforce Base beats his sleeping in cornfields or cemeteries in sweltering heat or blustery cold weather, patrolling in villages that look like areas described in the Old Testament, or taking contact or engaging in firefights with the Enemy. And I'm sure that he would be very appreciative to the Airforce if he spends a week or so at this Base on his way back to the States when his tour ends in Afghanistan.

 

[lloyds]

My middle son was in a similar state. Decent highschool grades but certainly not interested in college. We talked over the summer about options and he decided maybe the Navy would be okay. So one monday I drove him into the induction center where I watched him sworn in, then had to walk away and go home. That was the worst feeling I ever had. I felt like I had abandoned him. He served his four years in the Pacific on the USS Rainier as a cook and did well. His home base was Bremerton Naval Yard so I got to see him a couple times a year. He decided not to reinlist and put himself through Junior College then came to work for me in Surveying. He had previously worked for me in the summers. His experience as a cook was a definite plus. He can really cook well and enjoys it but surveying pays the bills. As said before, each child is different. I would have liked to see him stay in but he wanted out. He has taken advantage of the veterans benefits so for him I think it was a positive experience. As for recruiters, most are not too candid to say the least. Be very careful and keep your expectations low when promises are made.

 

[Keyboard Ninja]

Man I love reading these posts.

 

[deserat]

Dammit - I'm always late to these!!! Prolly cuz I'm still working part-time. Great posts - yup - the Air Force is the way to go for certain people. We tend not to be as structured, although it depends on your AFSC. As for responsiblity and leadership, again, it depends on your AFSC. Now, as for the Marines - I must say I respect them immensely. They usually are the first in and the last out. They have to have uber discipline or all hell would break lose in the middle of all hell. As for the Air Force, well, if you aren't a pilot then you are helping a pilot get off the ground in one way or another. And yes, they are at the tip of the Air Force spear, whereas the Marines units are the tip of their spear.

With respect to the OPs dilemma, many others have posted great advice. I think what is important is to have the person making the decision figure out what type of person they are and environment they like to work in - of course, one needs to experiment to find out, however, as his parents, you can give some guidance. It seems as though he might need outside structure or discipline to enforce it upon his internal and external behavior. As a commander I marveled at how many people needed the military structure to function in their lives. If they 'screwed up', the military would impose the discipline on them externally. At work the other day, I had someone describe those with 'frightened minds' and those who needed the world to seriously knock them upside the head to get things done. He likened the Air Force culture to a 'frightened mind' one. The Air Force is also one of the more technically oriented services - although the other services also have their technical pockets.

As for amenities, yes, the Air Force has worked on and prides itself on providing good facilities for their personnel and dependents. I currently work at an Army garrison and the difference between that place and the Air Force bases I've worked on is immense. However, at the larger Army posts, one does see similar amenities to those in the Air Force. I've also seen some very nice Navy facilities. I've never seen a Marine facility (do they even have those? they pretty much are in the field or are an office somewhere on another base/post/etc).

So after rambling a bit - your stepson needs to want this themselves; otherwise it will be hell for all concerned (although the Marine Col I spoke with about my stepson said "we'd take him and instill some discipline" with all the confidence of having worked with unruly young men for years). With that being said, I consider my now 24 years of combined active and reserve service experience some of the most rewarding in my life. The skills I learned as an Air Force officer immensely enhanced my civilian career and helped me gain confidence in areas I never would have imagined early on. In my civilian career, I am usually tapped for leadership positions and challenging assignments and I partly attribute that the expectations and tasks I had as an officer in the United States Air Force. As I said to many of my colleagues both military and civilian: If you can make it in the military corporate culture which is one of the more controlling and authoritative cultures (even to your personal life), then you can survive and thrive in most corporat cultures.

Good luck with your son - sigh - it takes much longer for some to figure out why they are here.

 

[Walt34]

I also agree with Justntime and bimmerbill that, if your son does join the military, he choose something that interests him and has a civilian equivalent.

Indeed! As a close friend said of his job hunt after leaving the Marines "American Airlines doesn't have much use for an ejection seat mechanic."

 

[Rustic23]

Walt,
One of the biggest problems military types have is relating their military experience to civilian jobs. It surprised me how many AF pilots thought flying was all they had to offer a civilian employer. However, I agree that the closer you military experience relates to civilian jobs the better you will be.