Green Jeans
Dryer sheet wannabe
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2006
- Messages
- 14
"Shielding the Assets" when you think parent will remain in your home in your care
My 80 year old mother had a stroke early in 2009 and spent 2 1/2 months total in rehab, mostly in a skilled nursing facility (nursing home). She hated, hated, hated the institutionalization. About month 1 1/2 she became a "problem patient" - trying to escape, acting demented, refusing to eat, flushing food down toilet, agitated, yelling, etc. Nursing home "discharged her to hospital" one particularly agitated eve - i.e. kicked her out. The next step was either within nursing home in unit for those with psych probelms; or .... home.
That would be my home, because the stroke had left her unable to read/write/fix a meal/dial a phone or all those things that let one live independently. I went for the latter, because for many reasons it seemed the right thing to do. Mom immediately became much better, began eating (after not doing so for 22 days straight before discharge) and got back some quality of life. Granted, she had become incompetent (I became POA) but it was better than the crazed demented acting lady that was kicked out of the nursing home.
Fast forward 9 months - between me and my one sibling, taking care of mom has been almost doable. She stayed with me and my spouse/kids for the spring, then in summer my brother and I switched off staying with her in her own home. My mom got a lot of her former life back - swimming every day, attending neighborhood parties, doing jigsaw puzzles with the grandchildren - though huge differences remain.
For my brother and I, it came down to we both cut way back on p/t work we had formerly enjoyed doing (we had both retired in our early fifties from f/t work). And, in general we went through/go through quite a bit of "life is stressful and I can't do what I wanna when I wanna anymore."
In the fall, when mom was back with me, we agreed I should do a 24 x 20 addition on my house (b/r, handicap bath, walk in closet; similar set up in full basement below for potential live in caregiver if it comes to that.) We have 3 kids, a dog, and a 3 b/r home, so things had been pretty cramped (mom sleeping in what had been the downstairs family/computer room).
To summarize, we've - mainly me - been caring for mom f/t for almost a year. We have spent next to nothing of her assets except for legal and financial advice early on, and now, for the major (not completed yet) expense of addition construction. We have both given up p/t time work and paid ourselves nothing for caregiving or for food. If there's a co-pay at the drs or a prescription, I'll use her money. Otherwise, no. We have attempted a few times having a "nice woman" coming in to stay with her a few hours - each one has been met with "I can't stand that lady, don't do that again" reaction. So very little has been expended there either. (I'm thinking the next try should be with a "nice man", preferably a good looking and fun one.)
I also arranged the rental of her house for the winter so the utilities are being paid by the renter and a little extra is coming into her account. Her bank balance is getting bigger each month, and her asset portfolio has gone way up thanks to the rebound in the market. I should add that the local nursing home to which she would have probably gone, had I made that choice, is $340 per day - about $124K year.
My mom's assets are about 3/4 in a trust her late husband set up for her, and about 1/4 in 2 equal joint accts (1 with my brother, 1 with me). The trust ultimate beneficiaries are my mom's husbands grown children, not me or my brother. The trust is very broad in my mother's favor that the trustees (herself - which is now me as POA, plus an old friend) can expend whatever is deemed necessary for mom's well being, up to and including liquication of assets including home. The only restriction, if you could call it that, is that "other assets available" (which would be the joint accounts) must be exhausted before the house is liquidated.
In an abundance of caution, I early on hired an elder care atty to read the trust, and make sure it was legit to spend money on an addition that could be seen as being in my self interest. We also discussed setting up trusts to "shield the assets" should my mom go into a nursing home again.
Atty said addition expenditure was, "of course", legit per the trust. She also recommended after that was done we should approach ultimate beneficiaries re re-writing trust into 3 new trusts - one each for the joint accounts, one re-tool of the existing trust - to "protect assets" from Medicaid seizure/5 yr lookback/blah blah blah.
I am thinking there is nothing positive the nursing home did for my mom that I can't replicate at home now, with the new addition; though if she became further damaged I might need to bring in some help; and she sure as hell will be less crazed/depressed in my home than in the nursing home.
I'm thinking, worst or maybe best case scenario, my mom lives another dozen years in the addition at my house, maybe with substantial $ needed for outside help coming or maybe even living in. I don't see mom ever going into a nursing home again unless my brother and I both drop dead. Therefore I am not convinced this 3 trust idea is something we have to move on instantly, as what are we "shielding" from?
Right now I have great flexibility with the trust monies - for instance, if we need to replace her old car with a handicap van down the road - I just write the check on the trust account. I figure the trust, followed by the joint account monies, can maintain her at home at least ten years, even if we have to bring in help 8+ hrs. a day. I should add she has LTC insurance that will pay 3 yrs worth of benefits, including in home care.
Now one of the 3 ultimate beneficiaries included in his "holiday note" - basically, "hi how are you must be tough caring for your mom and what about the money?" a request to meet and discuss re-doing the trust. Of course, I will talk with the attorney before responding - but thought I would get some advice here too.
Given the situation, is there a compelling upside to me going forward re-doing trust to "shield assets?" Have I been fiduciararily (is that a word?) irresponsible not doing so sooner? It's been almost a year now since she had the stroke, and I've known (when I had time to think about it as I reeled catching the pieces and tearing down my life making room for her) for about 9 months she'd almost certainly need life-long 24/7 care.
thanks for reading and for whatever insight,
happy holidays to all
"made it to FIRE, got smeared in the sandwich"
hey, it's all good
My 80 year old mother had a stroke early in 2009 and spent 2 1/2 months total in rehab, mostly in a skilled nursing facility (nursing home). She hated, hated, hated the institutionalization. About month 1 1/2 she became a "problem patient" - trying to escape, acting demented, refusing to eat, flushing food down toilet, agitated, yelling, etc. Nursing home "discharged her to hospital" one particularly agitated eve - i.e. kicked her out. The next step was either within nursing home in unit for those with psych probelms; or .... home.
That would be my home, because the stroke had left her unable to read/write/fix a meal/dial a phone or all those things that let one live independently. I went for the latter, because for many reasons it seemed the right thing to do. Mom immediately became much better, began eating (after not doing so for 22 days straight before discharge) and got back some quality of life. Granted, she had become incompetent (I became POA) but it was better than the crazed demented acting lady that was kicked out of the nursing home.
Fast forward 9 months - between me and my one sibling, taking care of mom has been almost doable. She stayed with me and my spouse/kids for the spring, then in summer my brother and I switched off staying with her in her own home. My mom got a lot of her former life back - swimming every day, attending neighborhood parties, doing jigsaw puzzles with the grandchildren - though huge differences remain.
For my brother and I, it came down to we both cut way back on p/t work we had formerly enjoyed doing (we had both retired in our early fifties from f/t work). And, in general we went through/go through quite a bit of "life is stressful and I can't do what I wanna when I wanna anymore."
In the fall, when mom was back with me, we agreed I should do a 24 x 20 addition on my house (b/r, handicap bath, walk in closet; similar set up in full basement below for potential live in caregiver if it comes to that.) We have 3 kids, a dog, and a 3 b/r home, so things had been pretty cramped (mom sleeping in what had been the downstairs family/computer room).
To summarize, we've - mainly me - been caring for mom f/t for almost a year. We have spent next to nothing of her assets except for legal and financial advice early on, and now, for the major (not completed yet) expense of addition construction. We have both given up p/t time work and paid ourselves nothing for caregiving or for food. If there's a co-pay at the drs or a prescription, I'll use her money. Otherwise, no. We have attempted a few times having a "nice woman" coming in to stay with her a few hours - each one has been met with "I can't stand that lady, don't do that again" reaction. So very little has been expended there either. (I'm thinking the next try should be with a "nice man", preferably a good looking and fun one.)
I also arranged the rental of her house for the winter so the utilities are being paid by the renter and a little extra is coming into her account. Her bank balance is getting bigger each month, and her asset portfolio has gone way up thanks to the rebound in the market. I should add that the local nursing home to which she would have probably gone, had I made that choice, is $340 per day - about $124K year.
My mom's assets are about 3/4 in a trust her late husband set up for her, and about 1/4 in 2 equal joint accts (1 with my brother, 1 with me). The trust ultimate beneficiaries are my mom's husbands grown children, not me or my brother. The trust is very broad in my mother's favor that the trustees (herself - which is now me as POA, plus an old friend) can expend whatever is deemed necessary for mom's well being, up to and including liquication of assets including home. The only restriction, if you could call it that, is that "other assets available" (which would be the joint accounts) must be exhausted before the house is liquidated.
In an abundance of caution, I early on hired an elder care atty to read the trust, and make sure it was legit to spend money on an addition that could be seen as being in my self interest. We also discussed setting up trusts to "shield the assets" should my mom go into a nursing home again.
Atty said addition expenditure was, "of course", legit per the trust. She also recommended after that was done we should approach ultimate beneficiaries re re-writing trust into 3 new trusts - one each for the joint accounts, one re-tool of the existing trust - to "protect assets" from Medicaid seizure/5 yr lookback/blah blah blah.
I am thinking there is nothing positive the nursing home did for my mom that I can't replicate at home now, with the new addition; though if she became further damaged I might need to bring in some help; and she sure as hell will be less crazed/depressed in my home than in the nursing home.
I'm thinking, worst or maybe best case scenario, my mom lives another dozen years in the addition at my house, maybe with substantial $ needed for outside help coming or maybe even living in. I don't see mom ever going into a nursing home again unless my brother and I both drop dead. Therefore I am not convinced this 3 trust idea is something we have to move on instantly, as what are we "shielding" from?
Right now I have great flexibility with the trust monies - for instance, if we need to replace her old car with a handicap van down the road - I just write the check on the trust account. I figure the trust, followed by the joint account monies, can maintain her at home at least ten years, even if we have to bring in help 8+ hrs. a day. I should add she has LTC insurance that will pay 3 yrs worth of benefits, including in home care.
Now one of the 3 ultimate beneficiaries included in his "holiday note" - basically, "hi how are you must be tough caring for your mom and what about the money?" a request to meet and discuss re-doing the trust. Of course, I will talk with the attorney before responding - but thought I would get some advice here too.
Given the situation, is there a compelling upside to me going forward re-doing trust to "shield assets?" Have I been fiduciararily (is that a word?) irresponsible not doing so sooner? It's been almost a year now since she had the stroke, and I've known (when I had time to think about it as I reeled catching the pieces and tearing down my life making room for her) for about 9 months she'd almost certainly need life-long 24/7 care.
thanks for reading and for whatever insight,
happy holidays to all
"made it to FIRE, got smeared in the sandwich"
hey, it's all good
