The mechanics of managing your money as we age

[donheff]

Add trusted contact in Schwab profile.
Does that require a Notary? I don't know...

That is a useful addition since they can then at least talk to the contact. They also have a simple online procedure for adding view only access to an account. Neither of these allows the person access to make transaction. The Vanguard limited access authorization (all handled online without notaries) allows a trusted contact (e.g. spouse or child) to buy and sell but not change beneficiaries. It sounds like Fidelity offers something similar. Schwab wants a notarized form.

 

[tb001]

We’re trying to work through this as well. My mother and her husband have asked for help and they clearly need it. He’s 94 and having trouble managing their accounts.

They were hacked a little over a year ago and someone charged 5 figures worth of merchandise before they realized it. Twice. Six months apart. It was a significant percent of their annual spend so it’s a little shocking they didn’t catch it just because of that.

At the time, I went through everything with a fine tooth comb and we minimized accounts. It was an absolute nightmare because they ended up locked out of many accounts and couldn’t remember password clues, etc… Hours on the phone with the three of us and her husband unable to hear or remember anything.

They then asked me to take over managing their investment accounts (at Edward Jones no less). But refused, and still refuse, to give me poa. Instead they said to just use their passwords and make my number the TFA. We spent months discussing it, getting their wills and estate plan updated, etc. And then they just dug in their heels and never finished any of it. Now, 14mo later, they’ve changed a bunch of stuff again, their passwords are all different, because over time they forgot them, and we’re at a stalemate.

I’ve basically said I’m not touching any of it until a poa is in place at this point. It’s just too much of a nightmare to manage. At 94 and 83, they need the help, but can’t seem to get over the hurdle of letting someone else take the reins. Even when I know they trust me. And they live in a setting where it would be extreme my easy for others to be taking advantage of them. It’s so unbelievably frustrating.

 

[target2019]

That is a useful addition since they can then at least talk to the contact. They also have a simple online procedure for adding view only access to an account. Neither of these allows the person access to make transaction. The Vanguard limited access authorization (all handled online without notaries) allows a trusted contact (e.g. spouse or child) to buy and sell but not change beneficiaries. It sounds like Fidelity offers something similar. Schwab wants a notarized form.

Thank you.

In rolling money out of 401(k) I found that a notarized form is not an obstacle. If I have to notarize anything for Schwab, it takes about an hour round trip.
Print form(s). Complete. Notary at UPS. Mail or secure upload. This will also work for Schwab, but I haven't had the need to do so.

 

[Markola]

Vanguard also has a simple procedure like that but not Schwab. They require a notary. Unless someone has found a simpler way. What's with Schwab?

At Vanguard, my brother and I went through their notary process to become full “Agents”, which means we can do everything our mom can do on her lone brokerage account. So far, no problems at all and I handle everything for her, logging in as myself.

 

[ERD50]

... Instead they said to just use their passwords and make my number the TFA. We spent months discussing it, getting their wills and estate plan updated, etc. And then they just dug in their heels and never finished any of it. Now, 14mo later, they’ve changed a bunch of stuff again, their passwords are all different, because over time they forgot them, and we’re at a stalemate. ....

How can they change the PW if you are the contact for the TFA (two factor authorization I assume?)? Wouldn't they need the security code from your phone to complete it?

-ERD50

 

[RetMD21]

I had access to my mother's email before she passed which helped a lot. Currently with MIL I have the 2 factor set to my phone and I made her a new email address just for financial institutions and I control it. It is easy if you have good cooperation from the elder. Probably impossible if you don't.

 

[ncbill]

Again, if you can get your loved one to do so, moving their assets to a revocable living trust will give you the most flexibility in helping them out, if you can get them to allow you to be co-trustee.

There can be other advantages as well.

Here jointly-held real estate for married couples is automatically titled as tenancy by the entirety, which offers significant creditor protection.

A few years ago state law changed so the above is preserved even when retitling to a revocable living trust.

 

[clifp]

That is a useful addition since they can then at least talk to the contact. They also have a simple online procedure for adding view only access to an account. Neither of these allows the person access to make transaction. The Vanguard limited access authorization (all handled online without notaries) allows a trusted contact (e.g. spouse or child) to buy and sell but not change beneficiaries. It sounds like Fidelity offers something similar. Schwab wants a notarized form.

I logged into my Mom's Vanguard account. The first thing I got was the two-factor authentication. Not sure why I logged in just a few weeks ago, from the same computer and told Vanguard to trust it. Luckily I use my phone number since she hasn't had a cell for probably 10 years.

Don is right Vanguard, has pretty much exactly what I want the ability to give full authority, with a click of a button, all of your accounts.

Unfortunately, it is of no help with my mom's money,or for my niece with me. Because of the numerous type of accounts they don't allow access to including, educational saving accounts, is trusts. My mom and I both have trusts, and I suspect lots of folks here do also.

It does appear Schwab, is harder to deal with. But as I said all of the banks or credit unions I've dealt with required notarized forms to gain access, so I"m think Fidelity is a good exception, rather than Schwab being bad.

Notarizing forms isn't a big deal as long as someone is physically able to move, and only has mild dementia. Unfortunately, as TB001 has found that's also the point where parents are most resistant. But good luck getting a notary into a nursing home in the age of Covid.

Finally, I'm now helping my sister deal with her husband, dementia/Parkinson. He handled all the money and she is bad at it. Most of their money is in TSP. Does anyone know how you can grant access to someone else handling a TSP?

 

[Markola]

^^^^ Re Vanguard, yes,logging in generates a 2fa requirement. However, once a person is fully set up as an Agent, they can phone Vanguard and go through the voice verification and safety words process to a human who will do what needs to be done for their loved one.

 

[donheff]

Finally, I'm now helping my sister deal with her husband, dementia/Parkinson. He handled all the money and she is bad at it. Most of their money is in TSP. Does anyone know how you can grant access to someone else handling a TSP?

They have a POA form like others do. But general POAs lose effect when the grantor becomes incompetent. DW and I have signed and Notarized POAs that go into effect when accompanied with a doctor’s certification of incompetence. I need to look into how VG and Schwab will respond to these.

 

[RetMD21]

They have a POA form like others do. But general POAs lose effect when the grantor becomes incompetent. DW and I have signed and Notarized POAs that go into effect when accompanied with a doctor’s certification of incompetence. I need to look into how VG and Schwab will respond to these.

Most want you to use their forms possibly based on varying state laws. Also they don't want to read your POA. Vanguard's full agent form required notarization and 2 unrelated witnesses. I was told that this was to comply with PA. It seems like overkill to me. Many people use DPOA to avoid the competence concern but realistically you are unlikely to be asked at a later time about competence. In my experience of 2 cases the senior living facilities are not fussy about notarizing forms.

 

[SecondCor521]

Unfortunately, it is of no help with my mom's money,or for my niece with me. Because of the numerous type of accounts they don't allow access to including, educational saving accounts, is trusts. My mom and I both have trusts, and I suspect lots of folks here do also.

Interesting.

My Dad is trustee of a trust which is held at Vanguard, he has granted me a durable POA, and we've gone through the hoops with Vanguard for that.

I have been able, in the past, to buy assets inside the trust and change dividend reinvestment settings for assets in the trust. And I can see the trust when I log in, I can look at trust transaction activity, and I can download statements and tax forms regarding the trust. So I think I have full access to the trust.

But I could easily imagine that access could depend on the kind of trust, state of residence, type of POA, and/or type of Vanguard account.

I don't know about ESAs - my Dad happens to not have any of those.