This just reported: 900,000 dead: Covid deaths are surging in low-vaccination states

[harllee]

The group that has been (and still is) most affected by Covid is the 65 plus group. They are also the group that has been vaccinated and boosted the most. Some diseases affect the young the most (like polio) but Covid affects the elderly the most. I think that is why some young people refuse to be vaccinated--they don't care what happens to their grandparents.

 

[CardsFan]

The group that has been (and still is) most affected by Covid is the 65 plus group. They are also the group that has been vaccinated and boosted the most. Some diseases affect the young the most (like polio) but Covid affects the elderly the most. I think that is why some young people refuse to be vaccinated--they don't care what happens to their grandparents.

Well, That's a leap. I don't think you really believe it, but maybe you do.

Your comment about polio has me thinking. Did many, ANY adults get the vaccine? I don't recall. Did they not care about their grand kids?

 

[NanoSour]

The group that has been (and still is) most affected by Covid is the 65 plus group. They are also the group that has been vaccinated and boosted the most. Some diseases affect the young the most (like polio) but Covid affects the elderly the most. I think that is why some young people refuse to be vaccinated--they don't care what happens to their grandparents.

Wow...I really don't know what to say about that comment. They really got into your head.

 

[RetMD21]

When I posted this article this morning it was really in hopes just to remind everyone to be safe out there. Not to intentionally bash anyone's State or persons. The feedback has been interesting.

I hope someday we can get back to something close to normal and we all feel comfortable going out and living life again.

Interesting is a polite term, lol. Michigan still has a 21% positive test rate so I am going to be careful a bit longer. Now those who wish have access to vaccines and quality masks and can modulate behavior based on current conditions. It is disappointing that there have been reports out of Europe that unvaccinated folks have been ill with the Omicron B2 variant almost immediately after recovering from the original Omicron. Post infection immunity may not be very robust for those who have a relatively milder infection without much lung involvement. Time will tell.

 

[harllee]

Well, That's a leap. I don't think you really believe it, but maybe you do.

Your comment about polio has me thinking. Did many, ANY adults get the vaccine? I don't recall. Did they not care about their grand kids?

The vast majority of polio victims were under age 5. When the polio vaccine first came out we all lined up to get it, adults and children-- there was not any of this craziness about not getting the vaccine. People did not want young children dying and becoming paralyzed by polio so they did the right thing and got the vaccine.

On the other hand, the vast of majority of deaths from Covid are those over 65. The vaccination rate for those over 65 in the U.S. is almost 90%, On the other hand, the vaccination rate for those 18-50 is under 50%. If the 50% unvaccinated in the age 18-50 had any concern for the folks over age 65 (their grandparents) they would get vaccinated. It is a selfish bunch who has little concern for the older population.

And yes I really believe that the unvaccinated young people do not care about their grandparents.

 

[travelover]

Discussion of this topic has an interesting dynamic. Our county health department posts daily on Facebook and Next Door with Covid statistics and encouragement to vax/ boost / mask /test and 90% of the comments are from people nit picking the statistics, posting links to misinformation web sites and generally just trolling. It really seems to bring out the worst in people.

OK, I'll quit there.

 

[Act2]

I remember lining up in the school gym, everyone in town, all ages, for the polio vaccine. My whole family. I was very young but still remember it. I do not recall hearing about anyone not getting the vaccine. It was something we all did. But again, I was very young and perhaps I did not have the full picture if some did not take the polio vax.

 

[audreyh1]

Interesting is a polite term, lol. Michigan still has a 21% positive test rate so I am going to be careful a bit longer. Now those who wish have access to vaccines and quality masks and can modulate behavior based on current conditions. It is disappointing that there have been reports out of Europe that unvaccinated folks have been ill with the Omicron B2 variant almost immediately after recovering from the original Omicron. Post infection immunity may not be very robust for those who have a relatively milder infection without much lung involvement. Time will tell.

I’ve been wondering about that - how quickly can someone be reinfected with Omicron. But clearly in this case it’s a variant reinfection.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

Discussion of this topic has an interesting dynamic. Our county health department posts daily on Facebook and Next Door with Covid statistics and encouragement to vax/ boost / mask /test and 90% of the comments are from people nit picking the statistics, posting links to misinformation web sites and generally just trolling. It really seems to bring out the worst in people.

OK, I'll quit there.

You are so right.... Its so sad.

I was gonna start a new thread on a 60 Minutes segment that aired tonight regarding how overwhelmed the hospitals are. I was trying to find a link to it on Youtube but they only had the preview on there so far. The comments posted are just so divisive it made me give up. At this point I think all we can do is agree to disagree...

 

[Badger]

Discussion of this topic has an interesting dynamic. Our county health department posts daily on Facebook and Next Door with Covid statistics and encouragement to vax/ boost / mask /test and 90% of the comments are from people nit picking the statistics, posting links to misinformation web sites and generally just trolling. It really seems to bring out the worst in people.

OK, I'll quit there.

+1 Really tired of the pandemic and equally tired of the trolling and misinformation. I have lost confidence in the vast majority of people.


Cheers!

 

[rwdflynavy]

The biggest difference between the vaccine(s) for Covid and the Polio vaccine is that if you got the polio vaccine you didn't get polio.

 

[REWahoo]

+1 Really tired of the pandemic and equally tired of the trolling and misinformation. I have lost confidence in the vast majority of people.

Note my updated sig line.

 

[pacergal]

>900,000 souls gone.
A staggering number, and so sad.
A Public Health issue the has turned us against each other, instead of reaching out a helping hand, or an arm for a shot!

History will have an interesting write up about this.

Take care, and stay safe!

 

[NanoSour]

The biggest problem with this pandemic is that the raw data of events on the ground, even when 100% factual, moves people to varying degrees. One may see extreme danger while another, regardless of circumstances (age, health, location, etc), may see huge over-reaction by fellow citizens. A recent example:

In the state of Massachusetts where Omicron is running rampant and vaccination rates are high, there are currently 1583 statewide Covid-19 hospitalizations. Over half (823 or 52%) are incidental. Which means 760 Primary Covid hospitalizations. Note: a Primary hospitalization is defined as one who has received Dexamethasone, a type of steroid for Covid symptoms.

I can see how some would be concerned that 760 is too big a number and others could see this as a relatively small number give the total population and medical system in the state of Massachusetts. Will these two groups ever see eye-to-eye? I'm skeptical at this point. Too much emotion and money at stake.

 

[harllee]

The biggest difference between the vaccine(s) for Covid and the Polio vaccine is that if you got the polio vaccine you didn't get polio.

If you get the Covid vaccines (3 of them) you will not die of Covid.

 

[Dtail]

If you get the Covid vaccines (3 of them) you will not die of Covid.

Exactly. False equivalents on the other post and one of the reasons why......

 

[clifp]

And that is exactly my problem with the numbers reported, how many admitted with Covid and how many admitted for Covid?

My case was mild, I would not (and did not) seek treatment for it, and I've had far worse colds/flu that I did not seek treatment for. But I'm in a database, as I got tested because of an upcoming gathering.

I'm not trying to minimize the COVID situation, I'm just saying the numbers are hard to compare, as they are being generated differently. To state that more clearly, the numbers for colds/flu would be much higher if a lot of people were being tested for them, and tested at every medical visit, rather than counting only those who sought out medical treatment for those colds/flu.

Maybe that doesn't materially change the numbers for COVID, but I think it is worth questioning.

-ERD50

It does complicated things, but this is not some new phenomenon. Contributing factors have always made it hard to determine the cause of death.

Imagine a life-long smoker who gets stage 4 lung cancer. He becomes depressed and starts drinking, a year later he gets in an accident and seriously injures a family. They sue him which will leave his family bankrupt.
He dies of an overdose of heroin and booze. What did he die of smoking, drinking, heroin, or suicide?

Lots of diseases cause organ failures, Covid is pretty unusual in that attacks almost organs in the body, lungs, heart, brain, kidneys etc. So while identifying the organs that failed is relatively straightforward. the root cause is harder.

Long covid further complicates things, two of the first people I know that got Covid are still 18 months later are still suffering from the effects, so the 90 day diagnosis is also somewhat arbitrary. Some people are affected by long Covid, who had mild or no symptoms.

 

[clifp]

The biggest difference between the vaccine(s) for Covid and the Polio vaccine is that if you got the polio vaccine you didn't get polio.

Actually that's not true. Two doses of the polio vaccine were 90% effective vs 95% for the two-dose of mRNA vaccine. It turns out you need 4 doses of polio to be 99% effective

Since most of us got polio vaccines as kids, we missed the worse of polio there are lot of misconceptions about polio. It shares many similarities with Covid.
Most people with Polio had no symptoms or flu-like symptoms. About 1% become paralyzed and an even smaller number dies. People who were asymptomatic could spread the disease.

The whole push to get everyone a polio vaccine as a kid, was to develop herd immunity to protect those who could not get the vaccine, or where the vaccine wasn't effective. This succeeded in most of the world. WhO and the Gates foundation, almost succeeded in eliminating polio, pockets remain in India, Afghanistan and a few countries in Africa. But Covid set them back,as will the Taliban take over in Afghanistan

The biggest difference is that Covid is more deadly, and many times more transmittable than Polio. In it is worse year Polio killed 3,000 people.

 

[NW-Bound]

The biggest difference is that Covid is more deadly, and many times more transmittable than Polio. In it is worse year Polio killed 3,000 people.

I think perhaps the sight of polio survivors who struggle through life with shriveled legs in braces scares more people into getting vaccinated than the ones who die.

If a Covid patient just dies quietly in an ICU room, it does not make a lasting impression. Some even claimed that the ICU scenes seen on TV were make-believe.

 

[Turbo29]

Actually that's not true. Two doses of the polio vaccine were 90% effective vs 95% for the two-dose of mRNA vaccine. It turns out you need 4 doses of polio to be 99% effective



Since most of us got polio vaccines as kids, we missed the worse of polio there are lot of misconceptions about polio. It shares many similarities with Covid.

The 95% figure was prior to the Delta and Omicron variants.

Still very effective at preventing serious illness or death but nowhere near 95% at preventing infection.

As far as similarities between polio and covid, there were lots of interventions such as spraying neighborhoods with DDT, which were later shown to be useless.

 

[harllee]

I think perhaps the sight of polio survivors who struggle through life with shriveled legs in braces scares more people into getting vaccinated than the ones who die.

If a Covid patient just dies quietly in an ICU room, it does not make a lasting impression. Some even claimed that the ICU scenes seen on TV were make-believe.

Yes and it was young people in the iron lungs and braces. On the other hand, it is mainly older folks in the ICUs due to Covid. I have a firm belief that there are many unvaccinated people who really do not care if an elderly person dies of Covid.

 

[Ballhawker]

Hopefully we can all take solace that the pandemic is most likely almost over. New covid case numbers are crashing. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...nd-of-the-pandemic-why-is-nobody-celebrating/

 

[clifp]

I think perhaps the sight of polio survivors who struggle through life with shriveled legs in braces scares more people into getting vaccinated than the ones who die.

If a Covid patient just dies quietly in an ICU room, it does not make a lasting impression. Some even claimed that the ICU scenes seen on TV were make-believe.

I agree, and bleeding out from all of your orifices, like Ebola is even scarier.
It is basically the shark attack fear, on a much bigger scare than drowning even though drowning is hundreds of times more likely. There were some good PSA of smokers, breathing thru tubes, dying of lung disease.

I think we need some more videos of Covid patients struggling to breathe, asking for their mom, while they die. The struggle is getting people to watch.

 

[CardsFan]

If you get the Covid vaccines (3 of them) you will not die of Covid.

That is just plain incorrect!

You have a much lower chance of dying, but no guarantees, particularly if there are co-morbidities.

FWIW, I am NOT anti-vax, but I AM tired of people speaking in absolutes.

From one source:

The CDC study looked at more than 1.2 million fully vaccinated adults across hundreds of U.S. healthcare facilities between December 2020 and last October: Some 2,246 of them caught Covid-19 after getting vaccinated, and 189 faced a severe outcome like acute respiratory failure or ICU admission, including 36 who died.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewal...nless-they-have-risk-factors/?sh=1eff5552fa57

 

[MichaelB]

Thanks for an interesting discussion