Use 72T method (pre retirement) to pay off mortgage/heloc?

[myfire123]

I'm in my mid fifties and would love to retire by 59. Unfortunately I still have a pretty substantial mortgage and a HELOC too, with 12 years left on one and 15 years left on the other. I do however have a 401k, an IRA, and either a a lump sum payment of $600-700k or a traditional pension due me when I retire. I only just recently learned that at 55 years old you can do a 72T withdrawal on your IRA (or a portion) without incurring the 10% penalty, even if you are not retiring. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to take the 5 equal distributions of a portion of my IRA to significantly pay down/pay off these loans. On the one hand I'm aware I'm taking retirement funds away from myself but on the other hand I'm getting rid of debt and paying way less interest and so less money would be needed in retirement. TIA for any insights.

 

[ERD50]

What's the interest rate on each? -ERD50

 

[myfire123]

What's the interest rate on each? -ERD50

Mortgage, approx $140k remaining is at 4.375%, HELOC, approx $60k remaining is at 5%. Thanks.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Over 12-15 years, I'm betting you can do better than 5% overall if you're not too conservative, but then paying off debt and saving the interest payment is a guaranteed return, and higher than any CD. I'd say it's pretty close. Me, personally, I'd play the odds and keep the money invested, but that's easy for me to say, as we did pay off our mortgage early. However, I'm considering taking out a new one when we move in retirement, rather than paying cash, because I think our long-term gains would be better than the mortgage interest.

 

[bobandsherry]

Mortgage, approx $140k remaining is at 4.375%, HELOC, approx $60k remaining is at 5%. Thanks.

I'd look into refinancing both of those into a 10 or 15 year loan. Rates are low once again on mortgages, should be around 3.25% or less. Should save you about $3k/yr. Keeps your money invested, no tax hit and market return should exceed your mortgage rate over that long window.

 

[Andre1969]

At the very least, I think I'd try to do something about that HELOC. 5% is a bit high, and IIRC, you can't write off interest on an HELOC any more.

 

[NgineER]

You would not pay the penalty, but five big withdrawals would significantly add to your tax bill if you are still working. Much better to that in retirement IMO. Refi is probably the best route however.

 

[ERD50]

I'll join the "look into a refi" chorus. -ERD50

 

[SecondCor521]

Move into a cheaper house or to a cheaper location? Maybe the kids are gone and you don't need such a big place. Maybe you want to try to age in place so a single-level with shower grab bars and wide hallways could be included in the change. Maybe you want to move closer to where the grandkids will be. Maybe moving costs are less than taxes on a 72(t).

 

[HI Bill]

I'm in my mid fifties and would love to retire by 59....I only just recently learned that at 55 years old you can do a 72T withdrawal on your IRA (or a portion) without incurring the 10% penalty, even if you are not retiring.

I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to take the 5 equal distributions of a portion of my IRA to significantly pay down/pay off these loans. On the one hand I'm aware I'm taking retirement funds away from myself but on the other hand I'm getting rid of debt and paying way less interest and so less money would be needed in retirement. TIA for any insights.

I'm not quite sure you're understanding this correctly.

1) If you're between 55 and 59.5, and your employer allows it, you can take distributions from your 401(k) without the 10% penalty (taxes only).

2) IRS Rule 72t can be used at any age prior to 59.5. IRS rule 72(t)(2)(A)(iv): Take penalty-free withdrawals from IRA prior to age 59 ½ by making ‘substantially equal periodic payments’ (SEPP) based on one of 3 methods as long as payments continue at least 5 years, or until 59.5, whichever is later.

You have to take Substantially Equal Periodic Payments, which are very similary to RMDs. If you use a 72t calculator, will the annual distributions be enough to accomplish your debt elimination? For example if you have a life expectancy of 30 years, you can only take 1/30th of the 401(k) account annually under 72t. Note that if you mess up the 72t distributions, you are subject to draconian financial penalties.

 

[skipro33]

Refi at today's rates for 30 years and payments are $900 a month. How's that compare to what you are paying now and can that work into your post retirement budget? I would think so as the money is still 'working' for you at 'hopefully' at least 4% and the interest rates are below that.

From personal experience, I took a loan out on my 401K (I know it's not the same as your situation, but hear me out) and was paying back through mandatory payroll deduction with principle and interest going to my account. However, when I actually retired, the IRS considered the remaining balance outstanding to be due and payable immediately since there was no longer a paycheck to make the mandatory deductions back into my 401K.

You need to know for sure what the tax implications are AFTER retirement for anything you do to your retirement accounts, be they 401K, IRA, etc. Don't just guess and don't just assume advice here is accurate. Everyone's situation can be something other than posted and situations change. A change may trigger something that would cause more burden than it's worth for the risk.

For example; say you do this at age 55 and you are laid off or otherwise loose your job before 59 1/2. The full amount would be considered a draw and taxable.


So, my advice is to fund a refi through the money you already pay to the mortgage holders and pocket the difference in a retirement account or make additional principle payments.

 

[zinger1457]

As HNLBill hit on about 72t withdrawals, you would need about $930K in your IRA to be able to make the 72t withdrawals ($40K/year) necessary to pay off your loans in 5 years.

 

[38Chevy454]

You would not pay the penalty, but five big withdrawals would significantly add to your tax bill if you are still working. Much better to that in retirement IMO. Refi is probably the best route however.

I agree. If you are still working, then i assume you are able to make the payments now without big financial stress? If you work until 59, you can start taking the 401k/IRA withdrawals near when you quit working. Refi now to get better interest rates, do not take 72t withdrawals, make new mortgage payments while working until 59, and then you can take 401k/IRA withdrawals as needed once 59.5 to cover expenses and mortgage. Taking 72t withdrawals now will have you paying the maximum tax rates on that money. The idea is to take it out when your rates are lower than what you saved tax rates with the money saved pre-tax.

Your pension vs lump sum is a different question you can address later.

 

[bobandsherry]

Guess OP exploring another option.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=98361&share_fid=78820&share_type=t

 

[ziggy29]

I'm in my mid fifties and would love to retire by 59. Unfortunately I still have a pretty substantial mortgage and a HELOC too, with 12 years left on one and 15 years left on the other. I do however have a 401k, an IRA, and either a a lump sum payment of $600-700k or a traditional pension due me when I retire. I only just recently learned that at 55 years old you can do a 72T withdrawal on your IRA (or a portion) without incurring the 10% penalty, even if you are not retiring. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to take the 5 equal distributions of a portion of my IRA to significantly pay down/pay off these loans. On the one hand I'm aware I'm taking retirement funds away from myself but on the other hand I'm getting rid of debt and paying way less interest and so less money would be needed in retirement. TIA for any insights.

You don't even have to be 55. You can elect 72T at any age -- you just have to keep up the SEPP until at least age 59.5. (I did last year at 52.) If you are not having problems making the payments now, I wouldn't take 72T just to pay them off. IF you needed to pay it off so you could retire and still have good cash flow, that's different.

If you were in a position where you could retire now IF you took 72T (with or without the mortgage), and doing so would still leave you in good shape after age 59.5 with the remaining balance, I'd do it. But whether or not I had a mortgage to pay off would not likely be a major concern.

I just took 72T last year in part to qualify for a new mortgage loan rather than pay cash for the house entirely, but ours is an atypical case that rarely makes sense.