35, pondering ER

[Khan]

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Originally Posted by cmy1176 I haven't been married for very long, so some may say I'm naive, but I've had my share of very painful break-ups. But, the growth and joy I've gotten out of my marriage I would not trade for anything. It's taught me more about myself than anything else, and made me want to improve who I am. I find a lot of personal satfisfaction in working to be a better person and I owe most of my improvements to my wife Seems like you are very young to rule out a wife or kids. I would think children would be even more reward. The things in life that seem to bring the most joy also seem to have the most risk of pain. The most painful experiences I have had have made me appreciate what is good in life and made me grow as a person. So maybe that's just me, but I wouldn't shy away from love for fear of the hurt or you will miss out on some of the best parts of life.

On the other hand: a relationship can crash and burn and seriously mess up your health and finances.

[uncledrz]

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Originally Posted by Sam * the substandard health care?* No one I know in Canada complaints about it yet.* At least not as much as here in the US.

See the film Barbarians at the Gate, I think is the name. Interesting story, well done, in French (but English subtitles) about the
Canadian health system's lack of rescourses to treat serious illness.

Have heard the same thing from Doc friends. Many Canadians coming to US to get procedures that not readily available in Canada.

I personally have had no dealings with the system so this is all second hand.

[donheff]

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Originally Posted by donheff This is kind of a Rorschach Test of our approach to life. Some people see a 35 year old worrying that marriage is too risky and prefering immediate ER as "feet firmly on the ground." Others of us would see that as a problem to work on.

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Originally Posted by Sam So you are in the "others of us" camp?

Yeah. That sounds like 60 years of angst ahead, ER or no. If the OP was saying he didn't want to get married because he prefers being on his own I would say go for it. But avoiding a lifestyle chosen by 90% of the world as "too risky"? I don't think so.

[mountaintosea]

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Originally Posted by canadian_guy I've indeed thought about starting a family, but that would delay any ER plans significantly. That makes me sound very selfish, but that's not the main reason what I am skeptical about marriage. To be brutally honest, I'm not sure if it's worth the potential risk/pain.

I'm not sure why remaining single is such an issue with some people. I've had quite a few realtionships but they were always too much drama for me. I've been happiest single and not involved. As for kids they can be a heart breaker and expensive. In my job I witness parents trying to
work with their wayward kids.
Looks like you are in a good place. Congratulations on obtaining that lofty goal at age 35!
As for being a landlord? Lots of work. Tough to find good tenants that don't tear up the place etc. :P

[Sam]

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Originally Posted by donheff Yeah.* That sounds like 60 years of angst ahead, ER or no.* * If the OP was saying he didn't want to get married because he prefers being on his own I would say go for it.* But avoiding a lifestyle chosen by 90% of the world as "too risky"?* I don't think so.

I'm not disagreeing with you.* 90% or more of the world population believe in a religion too.* But it's "too risky" for me.* So, I believe in a supreme power, but not in religion.

[donheff]

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Originally Posted by mountaintosea I'm not sure why remaining single is such an issue with some people. I've had quite a few realtionships but they were always too much drama for me. I've been happiest single and not involved.

Sounds like a very good reason to remain single. I think way to many people get married for dumb reasons when they would be happier on their own.

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As for kids they can be a heart breaker and expensive. In my job I witness parents trying to work with their wayward kids.

I applaud people's decisions to remain single or to pair up but remain childless. I think many of them are making better decisions than their parenting peers. If you don't think you would be a good parent or think you would simply not be happy as a parent you should not let society pressure you into becoming one. It is basing that decision on avoiding personal risk that raises my eyebrows. Letting fear drive your choices could lead to some serious regrets down the road.

[Mr._johngalt]

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Originally Posted by donheff Sounds like a very good reason to remain single.* I think way to many people get married for dumb reasons when they would be happier on their own.* I applaud people's decisions to remain single or to pair up but remain childless.* I think many of them are making better decisions than their parenting peers.* If you don't think you would be a good parent or think you would simply not be happy as a parent you should not let society pressure you into becoming one.* It is basing that decision on avoiding personal risk that raises my eyebrows.* Letting fear drive your choices could lead to some serious regrets down the road.

Interesting points. I just love being a Dad (and Granddad). No amount of money could ever replace that for me. Being a spouse was a different story.
IHMO, most folks fall in love and follow their hearts (not their heads).
fraught with trouble but where would we be without love?

JG

[Mr._johngalt]

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Originally Posted by mountaintosea * * * * I'm not sure why remaining single is such an issue with some people. I've had quite a few realtionships but they were always too much drama for me. I've been happiest single and not involved. As for kids they can be a heart breaker and expensive. In my job I witness parents trying to work with their wayward kids.* * *Looks like you are in a good place. Congratulations on obtaining that lofty goal at age 35! * *As for being a landlord? Lots of work. Tough to find good tenants that don't tear up the place etc. :P

I've been married twice (looking back, I can see the motivation was
different for each). Anyway, I am clearly happier being single.
OTOH, I wouldn't trade the kids for anything. The bottom line is
that the agony (for me) of marriage was always worth the ecstacy
of being a parent. That will never change, and I believe the
survivors of most other failed marriages probably feel the same way.

JG

[AltaRed]

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Originally Posted by tio z See the film Barbarians at the Gate, I think is the name.* Interesting story, well done, in French (but English subtitles) about the Canadian health system's lack of rescourses to treat serious illness.* Have heard the same thing from Doc friends.* Many Canadians coming to US to get procedures that not readily available in Canada.* I personally have had no dealings with the system so this is all second hand.

Not to derail this thread, but y'all need to be careful what you read and believe. The current California universal health debate is full of fear mongering and non-truths about the Canadian system that are full of vested interests (corporate, political, etc). It is unfortunate that the average citizen has little way of hearing the truth.

I, as a Canadian, have spent many of my working years in the USA and know the US healthcare system as well as the Canadian system. While it is true that resources are sometimes short on some things every now and then (e.g. mostly bed shortages at hospitals due to shortages in doctors and nurses), 99.9% of the time the Canadian system rarely fails to provide timely and quality health care to those that need it. There is a balance to be found in cost effective health delivery - Canada could do a little more while the USA needs to brake the financial runaway train on its current path to eventual implosion.

[SecondCor521]

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Originally Posted by Mr._johngalt I've been married twice (looking back, I can see the motivation was different for each). Anyway, I am clearly happier being single. OTOH, I wouldn't trade the kids for anything. The bottom line is that the agony (for me) of marriage was always worth the ecstacy of being a parent. That will never change, and I believe the survivors of most other failed marriages probably feel the same way. JG

Include me in that group, although Lord willing I'll only have been married once in this lifetime. Unless my STBX changes...well, a lot.

2Cor521

[EagleEye]

Canadian Guy, I like you and your approach to life and ER. We are in similar situations, although I am 4 years older than you. Two questions and one comment:

1. The question: I am puzzled and a little intrigued as to how you socked away nearly a million over the course of a decade of employment as a game programmer. I am sure they pay you nicely, but I don't see how you could save (on average) 100K AFTER TAXES per year for the last 10 years. Is there something else that accounts for this extraordinary result such as inheritance, stock options, etc.?

2. If you ER at 35 or 36 or 37, what would you want to do? Keeping in mind that you are on a decent, but definitely middle-class budget per annum. (In fact, you would be close to the US median HH income at a 4% withdrawal.)

3. In response to Kramer's post that you can't rely on the 4% plan because you have 50 years ahead of you and because past returns do not predict future results: I think this analysis is wrong in several ways. First of all, I have used FIRECALC for a 50-year timeframe and do not come up with results that are significantly different than for 30 years. Basically, if you limit yourself to 4% you should be fine. That is not to say you should retire now, but I don't think that Kramer's concern holds water. Second, while the FIRECALC is based on past returns, it is NOT based only on the last 30 or 50 years. As I understand it, the calc runs every 30 (or 50) year period since the NY stock market was created. So, while anything is possible in the future, the anomalous returns of certain periods (1996-2000 on the upside; 2000-2002 on the downside) should be "smoothed out" as all period/scenarios are factored in. The CALC will even include in the overall mix the nightmare scenario in which you retire just before the 1929 crash lived off of your nest egg until 1979. Bottom line is that for the 4% formula to fail, the future market returns would have to be dramatically off the rails. While that could happen, you just can't wring out every last risk, however unlikely, in your planning. If you did that, you could never retire, let alone ER.

[canadian_guy]

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Originally Posted by EagleEye Canadian Guy, I like you and your approach to life and ER. We are in similar situations, although I am 4 years older than you. Two questions and one comment: 1. The question: I am puzzled and a little intrigued as to how you socked away nearly a million over the course of a decade of employment as a game programmer. I am sure they pay you nicely, but I don't see how you could save (on average) 100K AFTER TAXES per year for the last 10 years. Is there something else that accounts for this extraordinary result such as inheritance, stock options, etc.? 2. If you ER at 35 or 36 or 37, what would you want to do? Keeping in mind that you are on a decent, but definitely middle-class budget per annum. (In fact, you would be close to the US median HH income at a 4% withdrawal.)

Eagle --

1. You're right, it is more than salary that has allowed me to save about 1M over 10 years. I was very fortunate to land at a small company that has enjoyed steady growth and success. The company was acquired in 2000, and the owner was very fair to the employees. Secondly, the games I have worked on have done well (which is also very fortunate, since most games fail or lose money). We have a generous profit-sharing plan, so if the game makes a lot of money, additional bonuses come back to the team. The company that acquired us is public, so I have been getting options since 2000. I take the approach of looking at options as "free" money, so I excercise and sell immediately when I can and avoid trying to time the market.

That being said, I was dealt brutal losses when the stock market tanked in 2000. I held on and bought when others were selling, but it was a difficult few years. I don't believe in financial advisors, and I manage my stock portfolio myself. One of the hardest lessons to learn (and I struggle with it to this day), is to admit I've made a mistake when a stock drops 8% below the cost, and sell it.

2. I've thought about starting up an independent game studio (maybe just myself)... that sounds like working, but I mean in a laid-back way. I've been thinking about ER a lot since finding this site, and maybe what I'm really looking for is just more freedom and control in my work.

I'm a runner, and although I've done a couple of marathons I haven't really had as much time as I would like to train. If I didn't have a rigid work schedule, I could get more into running, and maybe do some interesting things like ultra-runs or adventure runs.

More than anything, I think I want life to slow down. It's going too fast, and I think a large reason for that is the demanding career I've pursued.

[Nords]

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Originally Posted by canadian_guy One of the hardest lessons to learn (and I struggle with it to this day), is to admit I've made a mistake when a stock drops 8% below the cost, and sell it.

I don't doubt that it's tough. Bill O'Neill has been flogging that rule since the 1980s, apparently oblivious to the fact that market volatility, let alone single-stock volatility, has risen steadily since then. But that 8% rule supports a lot of market makers!

[virginia]

Canadian guy
I was looking back at your original post. There are lots of places that you could ER to (I'm thinking particularly in the south) - college towns that are small, but have that Walla Walla type feel. Actually I don't know what Walla Walla is really like, but I saw a video about it at the CNN website just last week, and it reminds me a lot about the town that I grew up in. A lot of these college towns are great and not too expensive unless you go to the bigger college towns, which are also nice, but homes are much more expensive.
It would be worth it just to check out the VA, NC areas and see what you think.

[EagleEye]

"2. I've thought about starting up an independent game studio (maybe just myself)... that sounds like working, but I mean in a laid-back way. I've been thinking about ER a lot since finding this site, and maybe what I'm really looking for is just more freedom and control in my work."


Thanks for sharing CG. The more I read your posts, the more apparent it is that you have a good head on your shoulders and are probably in a good spot to ER at a time of your choosing. With respect to the point above, if you are going to start a business, then you should factor in an additional sum that you will need to invest in the start up, and then a subsequent amount to sustain the business before it hits profitability. Obviously, these sums are separate and apart from your ER nest egg from which you will draw your 4%. How much investment cash you will need depends upon you and the type of business, but you are well-positioned to assess this since you have experience in gaming.

[riskadverse]

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Originally Posted by canadian_guy I've indeed thought about starting a family, but that would delay any ER plans significantly. That makes me sound very selfish, but that's not the main reason what I am skeptical about marriage. To be brutally honest, I'm not sure if it's worth the potential risk/pain. Now before you think I'm a cold and unfeeling person, I'm quite the opposite. My biggest concern with marriage is that it can fail -- the odds are against me (and everyone else) at having a successful marriage for life. I know everything is a risk, but I'm not convinced marriage is a risk worth taking. Maybe I just haven't met the right girl yet. Kids sound wonderful, but that is fraught with risks as well. The best parents in the world can have children who turn out to be horrible people. What if my child dies or becomes permanently disabled? What kind of life-long pain would that bring? I can't imagine it, and the prudent realist in my says the way to avoid such pain is to not expose yourself to the risk. If everyone was like me, the human race would probably die out in a few generations.

Hold on to your ideas. Retiring before 40 makes more sense to me than getting married before 40. And when you do find the right girl make sure she shares your views on children (some do).

[kcowan]

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Originally Posted by riskaverse Hold on to your ideas. Retiring before 40 makes more sense to me than getting married before 40. And when you do find the right girl make sure she shares your views on children (some do).

You can also find some very attractive females who have been widowed/divorced and are financially independent who are looking for a playmate. As long as you bring a comparable wealth to the table, your choices will be plentiful.