A slight twist on How do you convince your Spouse to RE

[nuke_diver]

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Originally Posted by ivinsfan OP,I'm confused by all your comments on this thread. You have been a couple for a long time, what is the her/money/my money idea. Did you agree you would each fund your own ER? Since you are still working does she contribute part of her "bigger" stash to monthly expenses, or do your fund all the expenses from your salary? If it's the latter, her stash will only grow bigger with time and she greatly benefits from your continued work. As for your FA, don't count on he/she to tell you that you have more then enough. They benefit as well when you have fresh money to invest. You might not get the answer you desire and then your ER plans will an uphill battle. Once you start a drawdown the FA income will drop as well.

Our money has always been separate, it's just the way we have always been probably because we go married later and we already were used to running our own finances so it didn't make a lot of sense to combine things...and it just stayed that way. I have a good idea of how much she has but I don't know to the dollar and same with her. Most of the daily expenses are paid out of my salary. When she was riffed we ran our numbers at the time and knew 1 salary was ok for us so I supported her as she hated her job then and we had other concerns that made it an advantage for her to not work...and it just extended.

I do think her FA will tell her straight. It is also her FA, he does not have any of my money as I prefer to run my own FA (sometimes at my peril :P) and she does not. Actually the last time we saw him he already suggested that we were there as well, but it was a comment not data. When we see him next we are going to talk details.

[Chuckanut]

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Originally Posted by JustCurious I accept your apology, but you are doing it again. I don't know what "view of the world" you are referring to that you imply that I hold? I didn't say that I hold any particular view of the world.

I was referring to 'some view of the world' not yours.

[daylatedollarshort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuke_diver I have a good idea of how much she has but I don't know to the dollar and same with her. Most of the daily expenses are paid out of my salary. When she was riffed we ran our numbers at the time and knew 1 salary was ok for us so I supported her as she hated her job then and we had other concerns that made it an advantage for her to not work...and it just extended.

I don't really think this is a money and retirement issue so much as a not having a partnership, full disclosure, we're in this together kind of relationship. If that is the kind of relationship you want, then you have deeper work to do than seeing a financial adviser.

I don't know how a married couple would even begin to plan for retirement if they weren't even aware of each others assets unless they had so much money it didn't matter, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[ivinsfan]

Thanks for answering my questions. Your wife was riffed and it was a mutual agreement that she stopped working. Even though you have separate accounts, you were a team player and paid the bills out of your wages and didn't ask for household contributions from her personal accounts. I might guess that after 10 years, her money gives her a great deal of security and the idea of starting to spend it might make her anxious.

Maybe if you sit down and look at all the numbers and show her exactly what her money contribution would be and how she would arrange it, this might help her relax a little.This problem won't go away, no matter when you retire, she will have to start spending her personal money. I'm assuming you are not okay with using all of yours, while hers stays untouched.

[Calico]

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Originally Posted by MBAustin Reading this thread makes me very grateful that DH and I have always been on the same page about this kind of stuff!

Reading this thread makes me very glad I am single, and can retire when I alone decide the time and $$$ are right. The idea of having to get another person's "permission" to retire is completely unfathomable to me.

[tmm99]

Even without knowing what each other has, I cannot see how your wife can tell you not to quit working. You say she has more money, yet you say you pay for the living expenses...??

Is she afraid you will spend her money? Did she think you would work for many more years just for the health insurance your company provides you with?

I think it's time to sit down and talk about each others hopes and fears and put together an action that suits you both.

Good luck to you. You have been married for a long time, and seem to have a very good understanding of your wife, so I am sure you can find several options on how to go over this hurdle..

[haha]

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Originally Posted by ivinsfan I'm assuming you are not okay with using all of yours, while hers stays untouched.

My dad did this. In spite of that, because he was wiling to run some investment risks and my mother was not, he left a larger estate.
We children never figured out what his angle was. Likely just trying to placate her.

Ha

[W2R]

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Originally Posted by Calico Reading this thread makes me very glad I am single, and can retire when I alone decide the time and $$$ are right. The idea of having to get another person's "permission" to retire is completely unfathomable to me.

+1 And somebody else spending the money I saved for my old age? I am very happy to be single, too. Emotional commitment does not require jumping off THAT cliff.

[easysurfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calico Reading this thread makes me very glad I am single, and can retire when I alone decide the time and $$$ are right. The idea of having to get another person's "permission" to retire is completely unfathomable to me.

I still remember my last day at w*rk. I was typing finishing up a few things when a co-w*rker came up to me saying that she admired what I did (we'll I pretty much said "screw this, I'm outta here!", but more professionally than those words ) and wished that she could do the same but her husband wouldn't let her. Plus, they just had a child about a month prior.

Being single surely may make the decision to say "no mas" easier.

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

Ya know, there was a previous discussion on quantifying OMY, that I very much took to heart, and will present to hubby tomorrow on Independence Day. I'm currently covering 70k of expenses with my part time work. Nice, yes!, BUT 70k divided by 30 years or 4% SWR, only returns us an additional 50 bucks a week, which we don't need. So unless I can take those funds and splurge it, I'm done, exit stage left...

[oscar1]

I am in same boat. There is something comforting to spouses know some money is still coming in from somewhere. Also, people do seem to underestimate the relationship impact once both husband and wife are at home together 24x7. It's a major adjustment and you need to plan for it. I recently picked up "How To Retire Happy, Wild, and Free" by Ernie Zelinski. I am about half way through it. There is exercises you can do to list 50 things you have always wanted to do, or do in your spare time and want to do more of, travel, etc. idea is put together your post-retirement plan. I am having my wife do the excercises too hoping some of her interests overlap with mine. If they do not, no big deal, she can have her interests, me mine, and we avoid getting on each other's nerves 24x7 and can travel together and do other things that reward each of us in our lives.

Besides that, at some point I will sit down with the financial planner and my wife and prove that if we are careful, money will never run out. Ready blogs like this have convinced me that we will have a much more fullfilling life not working for someone else the rest of our lives.

Good luck! It's a bright, big, beautiful tomorrow . . .


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[kimcdougc]

My situation is so different. I retired (4) years ago. DH and I agreed on this. I got to retire when our DD graduated college. I am the CFO, lawn man, maid etc at home. He doesn't have to worry about anything getting done here. I have encouraged DH to retire at the end of this year. It has taken about months to finally get him in the retirement frame of mind. I showed DH that we would be ok financially. Finally after talking to our FA, he has come around to the idea of retiring at the end of 2014. I look forward to spending more time with my best friend. We have been married 35 years, raised two children. Do understand I have my own interest outside the home and he will have to find his. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your decisions.

[iac1003]

This is an interesting discussion to me. DH retired 4 years ago at age 68 and might have kept going if it wasn't a 36/7 job.

When I talk about my retirement I can see the freaked out look in his eyes. I think it's a security issue since FIRECalc puts us in a pretty good position. We have no problem hanging out in the same room together, having lived in a small NYC apartment for about 18 years. In fact my company lost one of its contracts last week and I thought I was going to join the class of 2014 but alas the administrator of another place signed a contract with us literally the minute he heard I was available.

I'm not sure how to placate a spouse who is insecure about money. There are so many reasons why this must be the case, and some deep-seated ones that may have nothing to do with the marriage.

I am taking the time to discuss this with DH but in the end I am going to retire earlier than I originally thought whether he "approves" or not. In my field I can always go back to w*rk but I would prefer not to. I'm just tired of w*rking and have many other interests I'd like to pursue.

It all w*rks out in the end.


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[Katsmeow]

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Quote: Originally Posted by Katsmeow I can't understand how your wife could retire herself and then think it fair for you to have to keep working when you have enough money to retire.

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Originally Posted by JustCurious Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work? It seems to me that is a common situation whether the wife is retired, working part time, or never worked.

Well, personally, since you ask, I don't really understand a healthy spouse not working and being supported by the other spouse for the entirety of the marriage (particularly when there are no children).

Now -- I can understand -- a family deciding to have one parent stay home with children, particularly small children not in school or children being homeschooled. That is understandable to me that a family could choose to have a stay at home parent. I have no issue with that. (Not the choice I made -- DH and I both worked full-time when we had young children. My own mother in the 1950s worked my entire life. She did it out of choice.)

And, certainly, I could understand if one of the spouses had a health issue or disability not working. And, I'm sure there are other exceptions I haven't mentioned (for example, one spouse working abroad and the other spouse can't obtain a work permit).

But -- when it comes to 2 healthy spouses both able to work with no impediments -- it just seems terribly unfair for one of them to be entirely supported by the other spouse. Now, I could see one of them taking off for some sort of sabbatical-like thing and then the other one doing it. And, if both have worked and are FI and one ends up retiring earlier, I have no issue with that. My husband is 6 1/2 years older than me and he retired while I only semi-retired.

I mean I'm trying to imagine how it would have felt to me if, when I was engaged to my husband, he had announced to me that when we got married, he was going to quit his job and I could support him (without us having children). I would not have looked too kindly on that notion. I can't think of why he should quit his job because we were getting married.

So - given that I feel that way - I can't really think of any reason I should have quit my job and expected him to support me just because we were getting married.

[ivinsfan]

Katsmeow, what a great post. As the mother of 2 daughters one thing you didn't mention was security for the partner that doesn't join the workforce. Not having the proper education or a history of gainful employment leaves an individual exposed to financial problems should a divorce or death occur.

My husband is 4 plus years older then I am, we married at the ripe old age of 18 and 24. After 6 months of marriage he wanted to relocate 1000 plus miles to the midwest and farm with his family. Oh yes, it was a dairy farm as well, as an Army brat I knew nothing about farming. It took me 3 years to just figure out what I had gotten myself into. We had a couple of daughters and I began to work on the farm. We began to expand and pretty soon I managed and milked the cows and DH cropped, helped with cattle and managed the business.

Fast forward 35 years, I have never held a job in in the "outside" world, the cattle were sold almost 5 years ago and I myself am ER'd. My husband, no, he continues to tie us to a crop farming schedule and I think he would be happy to farm until the day he can't climb up into the tractor.

We did a Fourth of July Independence day review yesterday and we don't even talk multiples of annual expenses or WR any more. My DH says of our assets, it's like what Rolls Royce says about the horsepower in the their cars...more then adequate.

What's my point? It worked out well for us, but looking back I left myself pretty exposed if out marriage hadn't worked out well. All my money flowed thru my husband and his family.
I should had finished school and had my own career, if only for peace of mind. Second point, although we have had the same goals for 40+ years by working "for" my husband by default he was the top dog and has trouble taking my input as to when we could both be retired completely.
Some of the things we are reading about here are simply marriage politics and every marriage has it own political climate.

[Mulligan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan Katsmeow, what a great post. As the mother of 2 daughters one thing you didn't mention was security for the partner that doesn't join the workforce. Not having the proper education or a history of gainful employment leaves an individual exposed to financial problems should a divorce or death occur. My husband is 4 plus years older then I am, we married at the ripe old age of 18 and 24. After 6 months of marriage he wanted to relocate 1000 plus miles to the midwest and farm with his family. Oh yes, it was a dairy farm as well, as an Army brat I knew nothing about farming. It took me 3 years to just figure out what I had gotten myself into. We had a couple of daughters and I began to work on the farm. We began to expand and pretty soon I managed and milked the cows and DH cropped, helped with cattle and managed the business. Fast forward 35 years, I have never held a job in in the "outside" world, the cattle were sold almost 5 years ago and I myself am ER'd. My husband, no, he continues to tie us to a crop farming schedule and I think he would be happy to farm until the day he can't climb up into the tractor. We did a Fourth of July Independence day review yesterday and we don't even talk multiples of annual expenses or WR any more. My DH says of our assets, it's like what Rolls Royce says about the horsepower in the their cars...more then adequate. What's my point? It worked out well for us, but looking back I left myself pretty exposed if out marriage hadn't worked out well. All my money flowed thru my husband and his family. I should had finished school and had my own career, if only for peace of mind. Second point, although we have had the same goals for 40+ years by working "for" my husband by default he was the top dog and has trouble taking my input as to when we could both be retired completely. Some of the things we are reading about here are simply marriage politics and every marriage has it own political climate.

Ivinsfan, your post made me chuckle. I kept waiting for the part where you would say your husband would be happy working essentially until the day he dies. Though I wasn't a farmer, I lived in farming country. Out of my many friends whose families are in the farming business, I do not know of one who ever "retired". And selling the land to cash in on the profits? Ya, right, farming stays in the blood, forever!


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[Katsmeow]

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Originally Posted by ivinsfan What's my point? It worked out well for us, but looking back I left myself pretty exposed if out marriage hadn't worked out well. All my money flowed thru my husband and his family.

This is an excellent point and one I agree with.

My mother is 90 and this is the big part of why she always worked. She got married in 1945 when she was 21, My dad was a co-worker where she was employed. She just kept working when they got married. 9 years later they adopted me and she stayed home for about 6 months with me, then went to back to work at the same company and she continued working until she retired.

I asked her once why she kept working, particularly after they adopted me. As a child I remember knowing only one other child whose mother worked and that was a mother who was divorced. This was back in the early to mid-60s and the moms mostly didn't work outside the home. (I had no objection to her working, was just later curious as to why she made that choice when it wasn't a common one.)

She told me it was mostly because she wanted to always have her independence. She didn't want to be dependent on someone else. And, she enjoyed her job and liked the security of knowing she could earn her living.

I think all of this formed a large part of may world view.

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

Independence Day chat went very well and we are both on board for me to retire completely or splurge whatever part time money I make. We discussed what we wanted to splurge on, and definitely decided against second homes, new car, jewelry and expensive wines. Decided on more vrbo vacations, maybe a new bike for hubby and a sunfish for me. Just worrying less about money and roll along. I've got a couple work projects to finish up and I'll reevaluate when those are done.

[slowsaver]

My husband brought up RE about a year and a half ago, and I got really worried. But it caused me to start planning and thinking about it, and now I am much more comfortable with the idea and much better informed about finances now. It's fair to give her time to let the idea sink in. If she still stonewalls when you bring it up again in 3 months, I'd be surprised.

[Lancelot]

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Originally Posted by nuke_diver My situation is not all that contentious, there is no danger of a divorce...besides she actually has a lot more money that I do so if I was to go it alone it would probably be tougher than it is together. My feeling is that it is fear of the unknown that is the main reason. When I first met my wife 24ish years ago she already had a fair bit of cash but it was entirely in cash/CD because she was worried about being in the stock market. That's been corrected but some of that still lingers I think. The next visit to the FA will be most interesting I think

Many folks are leery of change and find comfort in regimentation. Risk aversion is also a biggie, as in going from a nice pay check to no pay check...

The bigger question is how do you feel about this? Will you eventually resent working another 10 years? How would your wife feel if the situation was reversed?

In any case good luck to you both.