A slight twist on How do you convince your Spouse to RE

[MBAustin]

Reading this thread makes me very grateful that DH and I have always been on the same page about this kind of stuff!

 

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

I am amazed at all the asymmetric relationships reported in this thread. I would expect these spousal attitudes to drive people directly to the door. Maybe that should be the response - "I am ready to pull the plug, think how much more secure you will be if I go with you rather than without?"

We may have disagreements on this and resentment, but no way are we headed to the door, too many other things that we like to do together. Just cuz you're mad at your spouse on occasion doesn't mean you chunk it all. I may growl at him a bit, but I'll get over it, and then he brings me a glass of wine....

 

[Walt34]

I may growl at him a bit, but I'll get over it, and then he brings me a glass of wine....

That happens here as well on both sides. The important thing is we both know it.

 

[nuke_diver]

This statement changes my perspective on the situation quite a bit. Perhaps she is concerned that your retirement plans rely too much on her money?

No, as I said I think it is simply fear of the unknown. If she hears it from her FA I think she will be less concerned. A salary is known right now, no salary is not. And she wants to be comfortable as do I so she wants to be sure

Some of the calculations say we could do it on my savings alone. She's an engineer so being older and out of work for a long time getting a job is unlikely. We are both process engineers so while Si Valley has a lot of tech there actually is not much Si in Si valley anymore. Leaving means not getting back for older workers more often than not (I know several that have had retirement forced on them as a result).

Reason will eventually win out over fear I'm sure

 

[JustCurious]

I can't understand how your wife could retire herself and then think it fair for you to have to keep working when you have enough money to retire.

Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work? It seems to me that is a common situation whether the wife is retired, working part time, or never worked.

 

[Grigori]

I've been doing a OMY for a year and a half now. Some of it has been me being wishy washy and chasing the next bonus.

Some was my wife. We had quite a few fights. My wife just couldn't / wouldn't see that we had enough, and ignored all the financial modeling I did with FIRECALC, RIP, ESPP, and the projections of the vanguard financial planner.

Two things finally got her over :
1. She took the investable asset number and divided by 30 years life expectancy. She was surprised how much difference social security and pension made added on top of that.
2. I had a major meltdown one Monday morning at the office, and called home screaming. The BS bucket finally got totally full and overflowing. In got totally clear that I was "burning life" at this point, and needed to get out while I still had enough life left to enjoy retirement.

Now she has come around and insists I quit December 31st. That's what I'm going to do. So now she's actually a support to help me keep from getting wishy washy again.

 

[haha]

Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work? It seems to me that is a common situation whether the wife is retired, working part time, or never worked.

This is very uncommon today, is it not? Except perhaps when the man makes very good money and there are children?

If a man makes excellent money, having a wife who is happy in a homemaker role can really improve his life. It takes a lot of trust though, since if things go bad in the marriage, she has little economic incentive to hang around. Family court will see to it she can continue to live indefinitely at the level to which she has become accustomed.

Ha

 

[Live Free]

It takes a lot of trust though, since if things go bad in the marriage, she has little economic incentive to hang around. Family court will see to it she can continue to live indefinitely at the level to which she has become accustomed.

Ha

I dunno. I have a lot of girlfriends that are in their forties who were stay-at-home moms and then were faced with divorce. Most of them are not nearly as well off as single moms. They are behind on earnings (and thus have reduced future retirement contributions) after having been removed from the work force for so long. The child support isn't enough to cover daycare, clothes, food, roof over head, incidentals, etc. I suppose if their husbands made a lot of money this might not be true. But for middle class folks, I think both men and women do not come out ahead financially in divorce - and most women come out far worse.

 

[ivinsfan]

My situation is not all that contentious, there is no danger of a divorce...besides she actually has a lot more money that I do so if I was to go it alone it would probably be tougher than it is together.

OP,I'm confused by all your comments on this thread. You have been a couple for a long time, what is the her/money/my money idea. Did you agree you would each fund your own ER? Since you are still working does she contribute part of her "bigger" stash to monthly expenses, or do your fund all the expenses from your salary? If it's the latter, her stash will only grow bigger with time and she greatly benefits from your continued work.

As for your FA, don't count on he/she to tell you that you have more then enough. They benefit as well when you have fresh money to invest. You might not get the answer you desire and then your ER plans will an uphill battle.
Once you start a drawdown the FA income will drop as well.

 

[Chuckanut]

Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work?

What's wrong with the wife having to get her husband's permission to get a credit card? Or open a bank account? Why not repeal woman's suffrage while we're at it?

It's 1950's America, all over again.

 

[JustCurious]

What's wrong with the wife having to get her husband's permission to get a credit card? Or open a bank account? Why not repeal woman's suffrage while we're at it?

I didn't say any of those things were common. You are proposing something I didn't say and then arguing about it, I think they call that a straw man argument.

I know several couples in which the husband is the primary breadwinner, and the wife either does not work, or she works part time and makes substantially less while taking care of the house and the kids.

 

[hakuna matata]

Can you understand if a wife does not work in general (not retired, just doesn't work) and the husband works to support the couple and she thinks that is fair? Isn't that a common situation? How is it different? What is wrong with a husband working to support the couple while the wife doesn't work? It seems to me that is a common situation whether the wife is retired, working part time, or never worked.

It may or may not be common but not being FIRE is common too. This is a board where the intent of the vast majority of participants is to FIRE, so in order to do that they must approach it differently than 'common'. So I fail to understand what common has to do with the situation.

My wife and I are a team, and as a team the goal is for BOTH of us to reach retirement together (whether that is the same day or 10 years apart). We couldn't do that unless we both work towards that goal. One of us staying at home makes that task a much more difficult one to obtain.

If one spouse makes enough that the other can stay at home and they BOTH agree to it, then there is nothing inherently wrong with that (not for me but nothing wrong with it). However in the OP here the husband wants to retire but the spouse who retired 10 years ago doesn't want to allow that. I think that is wrong, obviously YMMV.

I have a good friend whose wife would make more than he does if she goes back to work, but she won't do it now. So they will never retire early, in fact had dinner with them the other night and he was telling me he doesn't think he can retire at age 65! Personally I think that is wrong, she gets to do what she wants and he has to work his ass into the ground. I honestly think my friend will end up dying on the job before he can retire.

Situations like that make me appreciate my supportive and loving wife! We laid out our goal and both are moving towards it. 60 days left!

 

[Chuckanut]

I didn't say any of those things were common. You are proposing something I didn't say and then arguing about it, I think they call that a straw man argument.

I know several couples in which the husband is the primary breadwinner, and the wife either does not work, or she works part time and makes substantially less while taking care of the house and the kids.

Perhaps I misunderstood you post. In the context of the OP's concerns, it seemed very old fashioned to me that the husband should continue to work simply to satisfy some view of the world that is not very relevant in modern American society. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[JustCurious]

Perhaps I misunderstood you post. In the context of the OP's concerns, it seemed very old fashioned to me that the husband should continue to work simply to satisfy some view of the world that is not very relevant in modern American society. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

I accept your apology, but you are doing it again. I don't know what "view of the world" you are referring to that you imply that I hold? I didn't say that I hold any particular view of the world.

 

[JustCurious]

Here is an interesting data point... According to a recent PEW research study, 29% of mothers with children under the age of 18 do not work outside the home, and most of them are supported by a husband.

More women staying home with young kids

"According to a new partnered survey cosponsored by ForbesWoman and TheBump.com, a growing number of women see staying home to raise children (while a partner provides financial support) to be the ideal circumstances of motherhood. Forget the corporate climb; these young mothers have another definition of success: setting work aside to stay home with the kids."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghanc...out-the-new-american-dream-for-working-women/

With 1 out of 3 mothers not working outside the home, I would hardly call that lifestyle "not relevant to modern American society."

 

[nuke_diver]

OP,I'm confused by all your comments on this thread. You have been a couple for a long time, what is the her/money/my money idea. Did you agree you would each fund your own ER? Since you are still working does she contribute part of her "bigger" stash to monthly expenses, or do your fund all the expenses from your salary? If it's the latter, her stash will only grow bigger with time and she greatly benefits from your continued work.

As for your FA, don't count on he/she to tell you that you have more then enough. They benefit as well when you have fresh money to invest. You might not get the answer you desire and then your ER plans will an uphill battle.
Once you start a drawdown the FA income will drop as well.

Our money has always been separate, it's just the way we have always been probably because we go married later and we already were used to running our own finances so it didn't make a lot of sense to combine things...and it just stayed that way. I have a good idea of how much she has but I don't know to the dollar and same with her. Most of the daily expenses are paid out of my salary. When she was riffed we ran our numbers at the time and knew 1 salary was ok for us so I supported her as she hated her job then and we had other concerns that made it an advantage for her to not work...and it just extended.

I do think her FA will tell her straight. It is also her FA, he does not have any of my money as I prefer to run my own FA (sometimes at my peril ) and she does not. Actually the last time we saw him he already suggested that we were there as well, but it was a comment not data. When we see him next we are going to talk details.

 

[Chuckanut]

I accept your apology, but you are doing it again. I don't know what "view of the world" you are referring to that you imply that I hold? I didn't say that I hold any particular view of the world.

I was referring to 'some view of the world' not yours.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I have a good idea of how much she has but I don't know to the dollar and same with her. Most of the daily expenses are paid out of my salary. When she was riffed we ran our numbers at the time and knew 1 salary was ok for us so I supported her as she hated her job then and we had other concerns that made it an advantage for her to not work...and it just extended.

I don't really think this is a money and retirement issue so much as a not having a partnership, full disclosure, we're in this together kind of relationship. If that is the kind of relationship you want, then you have deeper work to do than seeing a financial adviser.

I don't know how a married couple would even begin to plan for retirement if they weren't even aware of each others assets unless they had so much money it didn't matter, which doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[ivinsfan]

Thanks for answering my questions. Your wife was riffed and it was a mutual agreement that she stopped working. Even though you have separate accounts, you were a team player and paid the bills out of your wages and didn't ask for household contributions from her personal accounts. I might guess that after 10 years, her money gives her a great deal of security and the idea of starting to spend it might make her anxious.

Maybe if you sit down and look at all the numbers and show her exactly what her money contribution would be and how she would arrange it, this might help her relax a little.This problem won't go away, no matter when you retire, she will have to start spending her personal money. I'm assuming you are not okay with using all of yours, while hers stays untouched.

 

[Calico]

Reading this thread makes me very grateful that DH and I have always been on the same page about this kind of stuff!

Reading this thread makes me very glad I am single, and can retire when I alone decide the time and $$$ are right. The idea of having to get another person's "permission" to retire is completely unfathomable to me.

 

[tmm99]

Even without knowing what each other has, I cannot see how your wife can tell you not to quit working. You say she has more money, yet you say you pay for the living expenses...??

Is she afraid you will spend her money? Did she think you would work for many more years just for the health insurance your company provides you with?

I think it's time to sit down and talk about each others hopes and fears and put together an action that suits you both.

Good luck to you. You have been married for a long time, and seem to have a very good understanding of your wife, so I am sure you can find several options on how to go over this hurdle..

 

[haha]

I'm assuming you are not okay with using all of yours, while hers stays untouched.

My dad did this. In spite of that, because he was wiling to run some investment risks and my mother was not, he left a larger estate.
We children never figured out what his angle was. Likely just trying to placate her.

Ha

 

[W2R]

Reading this thread makes me very glad I am single, and can retire when I alone decide the time and $$$ are right. The idea of having to get another person's "permission" to retire is completely unfathomable to me.

+1 And somebody else spending the money I saved for my old age? I am very happy to be single, too. Emotional commitment does not require jumping off THAT cliff.

 

[easysurfer]

Reading this thread makes me very glad I am single, and can retire when I alone decide the time and $$$ are right. The idea of having to get another person's "permission" to retire is completely unfathomable to me.

I still remember my last day at w*rk. I was typing finishing up a few things when a co-w*rker came up to me saying that she admired what I did (we'll I pretty much said "screw this, I'm outta here!", but more professionally than those words ) and wished that she could do the same but her husband wouldn't let her. Plus, they just had a child about a month prior.

Being single surely may make the decision to say "no mas" easier.

 

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

Ya know, there was a previous discussion on quantifying OMY, that I very much took to heart, and will present to hubby tomorrow on Independence Day. I'm currently covering 70k of expenses with my part time work. Nice, yes!, BUT 70k divided by 30 years or 4% SWR, only returns us an additional 50 bucks a week, which we don't need. So unless I can take those funds and splurge it, I'm done, exit stage left...