Am I The Only Boomer Who Hates This ?

[Amethyst]

I'm 60 and I didn't like the standard office environment you describe one bit. Most of the rules seemed arbitrary and silly. (And let's not even get into the ever-present smoking! )

I wanted to work hard, get stuff done, and not have to worry overmuch about what I looked like doing it, which seat I was allowed to occupy at a meeting table, and so on. And if I was faster than the rest and got my work done early, which was often, I didn't appreciate having to gin up some busy-work just because my time card for the day was not full.

Since the mid-2000's I have worked primarily with people born during the 1980s and now, 1990's; hence, millennials. While I can't speak for every worker from that generation, my observation, from the highly educated milieu in which I work, is that these younger people work hard and don't skimp on the quality. The ones I work with are also very conscientious about saving and investment. Some of them are almost certainly on this forum.

They do seem to get their feelings hurt a little more easily than workers did 40 years ago; in my opinion, this is down to the influence of social media, which gives everyone the sense that they have a crew of supporters. People who feel they have supporters, can be less shy about showing their emotional reactions. It is not because they are actually more sensitive than previous generations.

If they had to do what my parents did - suck it up during WWII rationing and so forth - they'd do it. They'd probably complain more, but they'd get it done.

Just my $.02

Oh, and I liked wearing suits, because they look good on me. But I don't feel like someone who isn't wearing a suit, somehow projects less authority.

Amethyst

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Originally Posted by mcbraemer Greetings, New member here, with retirement (early, I will be 62 1/2) so close I can taste it (plans are to leave in May 2017). After 20 years in my original career (plastics engineering) and 21 in Information Technology, and having started work in the ancient "Bi-Centennial Year of 1976" - I have had it with work ! Being a Boomer myself, I am getting more and more cynical and a bit fed up working in the wonderful world of Information Technology. About 90% of the developers, testers and software folks are Millennials. So are my 3 grown children, whom my wife and I truly adore - but don't necessarily agree with all of their opinions and views. Here is my problem - I find it fairly weird to see the standard "office environment" degrade (my opinion) into relative anarchy, with managers and administration seeming to cater to the young people in many ways, not the least of which are - lax work hour rules; permissive rule about dress code, work hours, office etiquette, etc. Seems to me that when I was young, adults ruled the world, and when I got "old", young people rule the world. My Question: Am I nuts to think this is going in the wrong direction, showing my age, or just a cranky old guy? Your input is appreciated. PS - I bet our parents felt the same way in 1976 about us !!!

[JoeWras]

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Originally Posted by Options IMO, the boomer generation really needs to get out of the way. And I am a boomer.

Agree, and I'm on my way to doing the sidestep. Just OMY. No problem in passing the baton. However, I reserve the right to be a bit cranky while still in that OMY.

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Originally Posted by Amethyst While I can't speak for every worker from that generation, my observation, from the highly educated milieu in which I work, is that these younger people work hard and don't skimp on the quality. The ones I work with are also very conscientious about saving and investment. Some of them are almost certainly on this forum.

Oh I agree. Actually, I am impressed by my millennial co-workers. I've worked with some really great newbies who are smart as tacks and willing to work as a team, as long as the team works at night...

I do expect them to have more cross-over time during the day where we can collaborate. Coming in at 1PM, and then working from home in the evening (and they really do, they do!) doesn't work for me because there isn't enough cross-over time. Many of them want me to answer instant messages at 10PM. It just doesn't work for me. This may be a way to intentionally separate from the older crowd. But I think it has more to do with the "open office" someone mentioned above. Ironically, the business leaders say to us "Millennials want this." But when I speak to my co-workers, they say they don't want it! I think this is what drives them to work from home in the evenings.

In IT and software, there is also a difference between working Silicon Valley compared to anywhere else. Some SV newbies have a pretty unrealistic view of themselves and required salary. I think that is just a current phase of the business cycle which will correct sometime soon.

[BLS53]

I don't have a problem with casual dress. However, I don't think it's too much to ask to wear a shirt with a collar, and trousers other than jeans.

The funny thing is the Millennial t-shirt and jeans has become almost like a required uniform for them. Where you never see a variation thereof. And don't forget the standard issue grey hoodie.

[Montecfo]

I am completely ok with casual dress. Since I have worked in a venture capital-backed tech company for the past 16 years, I have seldom worn a suit, even to board meetings or investor meetings these days.

But what I hear from people in my industry is the youngs lack the work ethic of boomers. I tell my son that it will make it easier for him to stand out-easy to outwork his peers.

But there is an irony to boomer careers: we were expected to work hard to achieve, and we did. Youngs do not want to work hard so we still have to take up the slack. Part of that IMHO is due to the growing wealth of our nation. Our kids do not have the same drive to achieve as prior generations, who grew up in more humble circumstances, on average.

I expect that will begin changing as youngs learn that "work-life balance" is a great goal, it MAY not allow you to achieve the things you wish for.

[sengsational]

I'm also an even split engineer / IT person, a few years behind you, but I don't have an opinion about the stuff you mention.

My beef with the IT world is that there are too many incompetent youngsters in the field. Not naming any countries in particular, but my megacorp hired a half a dozen recent grads that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag. I consistently and easily got more accomplished than all of them together, while at the same time dragging them forward. They simply did not have a knack for the work; all they did was go through the paces to get a degree in said non-US country. So I'm cranky about that, but not about how they look or when they show up for work.

[Options]

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Originally Posted by JoeWras Agree, and I'm on my way to doing the sidestep. Just OMY. No problem in passing the baton. However, I reserve the right to be a bit cranky while still in that OMY. ....

IMHO, anyone in the throes of OMY has earned the right to throw whatever tantrum they like..

[MRG]

So what keeps you from dressing as you desire and ignore/enjoy the loser environment?

Expecially in IT where it's been proven ties stifle creativity.

[RetiredGypsy]

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The counts of the indictment are luxury, bad manners, contempt for authority, disrespect to elders, and a love for chatter in place of exercise. … Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters.

-Socrates, or Plato...maybe

[Options]

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Originally Posted by sengsational I'm also an even split engineer / IT person, a few years behind you, but I don't have an opinion about the stuff you mention. My beef with the IT world is that there are too many incompetent youngsters in the field. Not naming any countries in particular, but my megacorp hired a half a dozen recent grads that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag. I consistently and easily got more accomplished than all of them together, while at the same time dragging them forward. They simply did not have a knack for the work; all they did was go through the paces to get a degree in said non-US country. So I'm cranky about that, but not about how they look or when they show up for work.

Then you've worked around the wrong people. There are a lot of positively brilliant people in their twenties. A sibling, still working in his 60's and in extremely high demand, will only work for what he considers to be the most cutting edge IT companies with very bright people. Many of those people he says are one-third his age.

[sengsational]

^I didn't say I didn't work with some brilliant youngsters. The ones I hired were amazing!

[Bamaman]

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Originally Posted by ttvjef LOL funny thread! I'm winding down my 30 plus year IT career and see all the kids. What I notice about the new young kids is that they are incredibly glued to their smart phones. It's almost as if they are unable to talk face to face and their social skills are very lacking. I remember being the youngest at work, for what felt like years, and got ahead by forging friendships with my elders on the job. That doesn't happen at all now.

Went to the great granddaughter's first birthday party, and there were 25 young adults there. Everything was suddenly quiet, and I noticed all 25 were pecking on their cell phones. Yep, social skills are now lacking by certain generations. It's even worse to be on a long trip with a couple of cell phones in the car--torture.

I was on the phone excessively during work, however when I retired seldom do I even talk on the phone. I dumped my cell phone earlier this year and feel like a bird out of a cage. The wife carries a pay by the minute phone if I absolutely need communications, but she too seldom uses it.

[Yarnstormer]

I'm about to branch out on my own - work at home - you can bet I will keep off hours and dress like a bum that just got off her bike after a long ride! But I will keep some appropriate outfits for the rare occasions when I need to visit corporate customers.

I see all kinds in the workplace. You see young people with overdeveloped work ethics and older people that think it's ok to call in hung over. You have to remember tho that millennials are NOT kids, they are adults. Times have changed to meet new demands. Due to increased use of technology like email and dropbox etc in the workplace my work rarely requires a face to face with anyone. So I don't dress to meet the public because I don't need to.

[bradaz2488]

I'm 53 and have interviewed/hired many millennials when I was a project manager for a high tech Mega-Corp. Yes, it bother me at first that they seemed to have totally different work ethics and priorities then I just realized that it is a generational thing and I'm sure my parents generation felt that same way about us. The bottom line is if they can meet or exceed the expectation of the job with flexible hours and/or working remotely then who am I to say it is wrong. Another observation I saw was that female millennials (in general) seem to have more ambition, confidence and maturity vs. their male counterparts. There are two things that I just never could understand. They do not understand the "pay your dues" to get ahead. They seem to expect everything upfront. The other thing was "loyalty". Being in a high tech profession it could take a couple of years to train people before they actually start to contribute to the level to their peers. The millennials were very comfortable moving to other groups or companies after we had spent the time training them. They seemed to have no loyalty to the group that hired and trained them.

[JoeWras]

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Originally Posted by bradaz2488 They seemed to have no loyalty to the group that hired and trained them.

Ah, but this is where they are smart, smart, smart.

You see, they noticed that The Man (that would be our generation) lost loyalty to their employees and lays them off at a whim.

So, the Millennials are brilliantly mobile with no loyalty. I say all this without sarcasm. We are the dupes who still hold loyalty. And we are the ones who taught them to be this way.

[athena53]

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Originally Posted by Dawg52 Not long ago I dropped by my old employer and the guy that replaced me had jeans on with shirt hanging out. Also had a ball cap on. I know things have become more relaxed, but I'm surprised he gets away with it.

Was it on backwards? That always looks goofy to me.

Someone mentioned the "collaborative" work environment. I know it's partly the employers trying to save on rent but I never got used to Cubicleville. In my last job, my coworker on the other side of the partition had long conference calls and she talked a lot. I'd definitely put her in the hard-working, smart, driven category, but I took to wearing noise-cancelling headphones, which at least deadened the sound so I could focus. I think younger people are more able to work with background noise- I knew some who actually preferred to work with their headphones on listening to music. That would destroy my concentration completely.

[bradaz2488]

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Originally Posted by JoeWras Ah, but this is where they are smart, smart, smart. You see, they noticed that The Man (that would be our generation) lost loyalty to their employees and lays them off at a whim. So, the Millennials are brilliantly mobile with no loyalty. I say all this without sarcasm. We are the dupes who still hold loyalty. And we are the ones who taught them to be this way.

Yep, I can not argue with your point. It was just hard not to take it personally when you invested so much time & money into them...

[MRG]

Look at what has happened to the corporate w*rk place. We loathed cubes, these folks get all of three lineal feet on a table. Write code with someone staring you in the face. No thanks!

[JoeWras]

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Originally Posted by athena53 Was it on backwards? That always looks goofy to me. Someone mentioned the "collaborative" work environment. I know it's partly the employers trying to save on rent but I never got used to Cubicleville. In my last job, my coworker on the other side of the partition had long conference calls and she talked a lot. I'd definitely put her in the rad-working, smart, driven category, but I took to wearing noise-cancelling headphones, which at least deadened the sound so I could focus. I think younger people are more able to work with background noise- I knew some who actually preferred to work with their headphones on listening to music. That would destroy my concentration completely.

Cubicleville? Wait! That's luxury! We're talking OPEN SPACE, the Next Best Thing. Cubes are awesome compared to the new paradigm. You must be retired and missed out.

[38Chevy454]

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Originally Posted by Tree-dweller I guess the old saying "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have" has a different, ahem, "wrinkle" nowadays.

If that was the case, I would be among the most casual worst dress in the office - since the job I want is to be retired.

Back to OP, I am 53 and when I started as an engineer the standard dress attire was wearing a tie. Fridays were typically no tie days. Now almost nobody wears a tie, unless a big meeting with out of town visitors or similar situation. I like the no tie dress code, although I think some of the younger folks can abuse what I think is appropriate for the office. For example, I always wear a regular button shirt and business type shoes. Never catch me in flipflops or an old t-shirt. Also no shorts for me at work. Must be some of that wearing a tie culture has just not let go yet!

As for work hours, I am pretty mixed on that. For salary positions, you are hired to do your job. There is a certain expectation to be available when required. Maybe I am too much of an hourly mindset, but I always put in my full day of time. I do not like being expected to work evenings or weekends, although can do that as part of the job needed. One of my biggest gripes was travel, the unwritten rules were travel off-business hours, which meant on your time. So in this case I think flexible hours and taking time off work during normal work hours is reasonable.

[athena53]

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Originally Posted by JoeWras Cubicleville? Wait! That's luxury! We're talking OPEN SPACE, the Next Best Thing. Cubes are awesome compared to the new paradigm. You must be retired and missed out.

Yes, I am retired. Darn good thing. I had my last real office (like, with a door that opened and closed and views of planes going into and out of Newark Airport) in 1995. Only working from home surpassed that.