Anyone negotiate a "severance" in non-RIF times?

[dadu007]

I introduced myself years back, but I didn't know which sub-forum to post this question. If the admin needs to move it, I thank you in advance.


I turned 63 in January. First child is now out of college with a good job (just got promoted yesterday, as a matter of fact) and he's still living at home. (Fine with us; muliti-generational households have upsides for all parties and are making a comeback.) Second child has one more year of college, and those monies are planned for. He will definitely not return to the nest, LOL. He's a mover and shaker with big dreams! My wife works for the school district; she's 56 1/2. Her job is in question these days due to some unbelievable district admin decisions. It's a year-by-year thing with her (or the district's) decision to stay or leave. We can afford to retire tomorrow if we had to: 2.2 mil in investments, paid off house worth 550k. No debt. Planning on my SS at age 70 ($4k a month).



I am so burned out from work after 23 years with this company!!! I just want it to end. I have turned over many of my duties to my two direct reports. I do feel like I have been marginalized. Not overt ageism; just that my time in the sun in the company is over and people see my lower performance. I'm honestly fine with that. I really do want to hand it off to the younger crowd. Problem is my wife wants me to try to make it to Spring 2025 to exit my job; mainly for her own sense of security. It's true we have "enough" now. We could both exit tomorrow, but her (frankly traumatized) background will never let her sit completely at ease with me retiring (ever). I realize now I have to make the executive decision for when I depart my job and then ask for her forgiveness later. In all other aspects, our marriage is fantastic and we love each other deeply. Been married 27 years!


Finally, my question: My company does not regularly get rid of people through RIFs and I don't see one coming anytime soon. 6 months ago I told my manager that if there were layoffs to please put me at the top of the list. She was little surprised that I would say such a thing. "Really? You want to retire?" "Yes," I said. "I would like at least 10 years of not working before I die. Longevity does not run in my family." She did say that when people who have worked for a company a long time want to retire, she tries to give them a "package" over and above just their last paycheck, as you would get if you just normally "quit". But I'm not sure at all if her "package" aligns at all with my wish list below!


I've been concocting this plan in my mind that I want to present her (my boss) around July. Basically my great idea is to tell her that I want to leave at the end of 2024. And here is my wish list:

- 23 weeks of pay to be paid to me upon retirement (1 week of pay for each year worked for the company)

- Continued healthcare through the end of June 2025, during which time I would pay my normal medical plan contribution out of my "severence" payment and the company would continue their contribution. My wife's medical enrollment is always in May, and the effective date is July 1. So I could hop to her plan in that time frame.



The above is all I would ask of the company.



So my real question is: Is this a weird thing to ask/negotiate with manager? Is my wish list unreasonable? Has anyone here every done this before, and with success? i.e., Negotiated a departure when the company is NOT laying off people? I'll be clear. I am NOT in the C-Suite. I'm just a mid-level manager.



It's all I think about. So much so that I just want on lay all my cards on the table to my boss. I'm sick of the work, sick of managing people (I am ultimately responsible for a team of 25 people, and I touch base with each of them at least once a month). I want her (my boss) to help me leave the company with a little dignity and, honestly, on my own terms. My formal proposal (that I've written up) also shows how they could hire two new people for my department using my old salary.
I guess you get the point. I'm rambling. Any help?

 

[brett]

My first question would be what would motivate the company to give you a package? I would not assume that how you view the benefit to the company may not be how they view the benefit.

Perhaps they would look at your age and your request and make the assumption that is is an employee who will most likely be quiting or retiring within the next two years. IF his job performance is acceptable why not just wait him out?

 

[Yipper]

My first question would be what would motivate the company to give you a package? I would not assume that how you view the benefit to the company may not be how they view the benefit.

Perhaps they would look at your age and your request and make the assumption that is is an employee who will most likely be quiting or retiring within the next two years. IF his job performance is acceptable why not just wait him out?

Exactly. There's nothing stopping the employer from just waiting for your bucket to be completely full and you decide you *really* can't take it any longer. It's probably likely they too have noticed you're not having the same impact you did in earlier years and know you're likely to retire on your own sometime soon and specifically avoid including you in any recent or near future RIFs to save money.

 

[brett]

You need a plan B

 

[38Chevy454]

I agree with the other replies, unless there is something that benefits the company, why would they give you a severance that ultimately costs them money? I totally understand that your BS bucket is full and you want to get out. Try looking at it another way, you are FI and could retire now if you wanted from financial perspective. So let that knowledge help your outlook at work and attitude toward the corp BS, such that you let some of the corp BS just slide on by.

 

[dadu007]

Thanks for all the replies so far.
Yes, I understand the company's perspective.


I guess I'm using the Financial Samurai's concept from several (many?) years ago. He even wrote a book on it:


https://www.financialsamurai.com/how-to-make-money-quitting-your-job-2/


(Or something close to that.)




The fact that there is a book about the general idea made me think I wasn't too crazy, and I was hoping someone here on the forum had tried this strategy.



One can only hope.

 

[MichaelB]

My experience with severance is it is paid at the employer’s initiative, there is a motive, and it can be ringfenced or does not risk setting any precedent.

 

[tutan]

Depends on the company. I got the 1 wk per year of service deal. Other companies are even more generous. See if your employer has handed out similar packages. I did have to pay for COBRA, which was costlier than employee health insurance.

 

[dadu007]

Depends on the company. I got the 1 wk per year of service deal. Other companies are even more generous. See if your employer has handed out similar packages. I did have to pay for COBRA, which was costlier than employee health insurance.

Thanks. But my main question is whether anyone, on their own, initiated a negotiation for a severance package and was successful in that?
I'm not talking about unexpected offers coming the from the company side (out of the blue) or other mass layoffs. IOW, people who asked for a package proactively (outside of an expected RIF or layoff).



What was your circumstance?

 

[Montecfo]

Not without leverage and you do not seem to have any.

Anything they give you would be a bonus though, would it not?

I retired at a time of my choosing and did not receive jack crap for it, though I was an exec and have crafted lots of severance packages.

No regrets whatsoever. You can't retire without leaving money on the table. Just don't leave your life on the table hoping for a few extra dollars which will mean very little in the final analysis.

 

[tutan]

Thanks. But my main question is whether anyone, on their own, initiated a negotiation for a severance package and was successful in that?
I'm not talking about unexpected offers coming the from the company side (out of the blue) or other mass layoffs. IOW, people who asked for a package proactively (outside of an expected RIF or layoff).



What was your circumstance?

I just turned in my resignation and didn’t expect to receive anything but my manager was nice enough to let me know a planned RIF in the near future, so I hung around for a few more months. I didn’t have any leverage for negotiation.

 

[Al18]

In my experience, if you don’t have any leverage, then you won’t get a package. You need to be irreplaceable to get a package, and the package will probably involve you training your replacement.

 

[Aerides]

If you're asking, you're not getting. The package is their incentive to let you go without a risk of a lawsuit. If you want to go, why would they be motivated to give you a package? You are over 60, they just have to wait it out.

My MC had a very specific policy, there was no negotiation. Sure, when RIFs were coming, one could ask their manager for help to get on a list but it was always a risk "Mike doesn't get on the list, he's gonna retire soon anyway, that's another headcount reduced for free..."

Work on getting past your wish list and just retire if you are otherwise ready.

 

[kjpliny]

My MIL received two years of severance pay after retiring, but only because she was privy to highly confidential company information working directly for the CEO and they gave her a special package.

I wouldn't expect any kind of package from your company, but I suppose it couldn't hurt to ask. The only leverage you might have would be if you're in a key role and a standard two week notice would adversely affect the company. In that case they'd usually offer you some kind of retention bonus, but it could also be some sort of severance agreement. If you're not in a key role, expect nothing.

 

[mystang52]

Too late now, but laying your cards out on the table with your boss took away a lot of your leverage. I've had the "pleasure" of being offered 2 severance packages; they were offered in exchange for me to not sue them. One was a generous package that I accepted. I did not accept the other package. But in both cases they initiated the severance. I can't see why a company would give a package along the lines you are seeking when you are voluntarily leaving.

 

[Route246]

I've thought about this a lot, especially recently. I also have a lot of RSU to walk away from so my timing needs to be optimized. If I could retire tomorrow or with a package that includes vesting I would snap it up instantaneously. But, I enjoy my job and the stress it entails. If I did not enjoy my job I would have been gone already in spite of the RSU left on the table.

As everyone has said, you have no negotiating power now. You are only negotiating with yourself and it seems like that negotiation is complete. In my last role I was RIF'ed but I had been asking for it for more than a year and HR told my manager that if he wants a package he can just leave on his own and we will not give it to him.

It was a dream come true because I had already gotten a new gig lined up due to some unique skills I possess so the departure was very enjoyable from that aspect. I and another woman in my group who also wanted a package were finding it challenging to conceal our glee while the others who were RIF'ed were emotionally devastated.

Because you are FI you can also leave with a smile on your face. Enjoy that part of it, regardless of how things turn out.

 

[CardsFan]

Not without leverage and you do not seem to have any.

Anything they give you would be a bonus though, would it not?

I retired at a time of my choosing and did not receive jack crap for it, though I was an exec and have crafted lots of severance packages.

No regrets whatsoever. You can't retire without leaving money on the table. Just don't leave your life on the table hoping for a few extra dollars which will mean very little in the final analysis.

Re: Bold above.
Very wise advise. Go on your terms. Proud of what you have done, and happy to move to the next level.

If 1/2 of a years pay is significant to your plans, you are not FI. If you are FI then just move on. Be nice, be professional. You might be surprised with an offer, but don't expect it.

In my case, I was asked if I could stay on 3 days a week, for 6 months, to wrap things up. 60% pay, full benefits, and my schedule was up to me. This was before WFH was popular, but I could do what I wanted. I could have said no, but it was easy to do, with a defined limit.

I have always suspected I saved someone else's job, since I was gone at the end of the budget year.

FWIW, if I had waited for a package, I would still be waiting 8 years later.

 

[marko]

Do you have any proprietary or inside knowledge that you could negotiate a non compete? If not, I'm stumped.

Your wish list is fairly common for RIFd folks particularly those over a certain age, but not for those who just want to leave. As others have noted, what's their motivation.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

You are not in a strong position, but here is a suggestion …

Lots of companies have hard decisions during budget time. Managers get handed targets they don’t know how to solve. Wait until your manager gets her task to solve this year.

The next day, go in and say that you would be happy to arrange an exit if it were good for you and helped her out. Maybe getting the old guy out gives her room in the budget for those two junior analysts everyone wants to hire. If she can’t arrange a formal severance but she has any creativity, you may reach an agreement where you will leave on July 1 of 2025 but perhaps not work particularly hard from Jan-Jun.

I’ve seen every possible version of this conversation. The trick is to find a way to make it a win for your boss.

 

[dadu007]

You are not in a strong position, but here is a suggestion …

Lots of companies have hard decisions during budget time. Managers get handed targets they don’t know how to solve. Wait until your manager gets her task to solve this year.

The next day, go in and say that you would be happy to arrange an exit if it were good for you and helped her out. Maybe getting the old guy out gives her room in the budget for those two junior analysts everyone wants to hire. If she can’t arrange a formal severance but she has any creativity, you may reach an agreement where you will leave on July 1 of 2025 but perhaps not work particularly hard from Jan-Jun.

I’ve seen every possible version of this conversation. The trick is to find a way to make it a win for your boss.

I like this! It sounds like my best option. Our fiscal year ends Sep 30th, so I'll quiet myself until then.



I appreciate all the other frank and reality-based comments, too.
The consensus seems to be that, as the great George Constanza once said, "I have no hand!"

 

[marko]

I like this! It sounds like my best option. Our fiscal year ends Sep 30th, so I'll quiet myself until then.
]

So that means that the boss might start looking at next year's budget numbers sometime in July.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Good luck. Sounds like they don't want you to leave, so why would they pay you to do just that?

 

[dadu007]

So that means that the boss might start looking at next year's budget numbers sometime in July.

Yeah, it's a little loosy-goosy at my company... Typically everyone just wants to limp over the Sep 30 finish line and then between then and December is when new budgets and KPIs are set, even though theoretically they should be in place by end of October. People are just burnt out in the fall and looking forward to the holidays.

 

[Montecfo]

Well, one other interesting point my old CEO would dust off when, say, we wanted some dispensation from our controlling investor.

Should we request it ?

"Well, we know what the answer will be if we never ask" he liked to point out, accurately.

 

[Aerides]

We can afford to retire tomorrow if we had to: 2.2 mil in investments, paid off house worth 550k. No debt. Planning on my SS at age 70 ($4k a month).

I am so burned out from work after 23 years with this company!!! I just want it to end.

And yet now you want to give them 6 more months for a sliver of a maybe? And even if that maybe becomes a reality, it will come with a requirement to stay a few more months for the carrot.

So, if you want to stay another year for this chance...ok, or you could just retire now quite comfortably by most standards.