Do I need long term care insurance

[gailcaf58]

I am in my late 50's, retired with over $900k saved. I am in excellent health, have no debt, am single, have no kids and no siblings. I do not have a pension so depending on my savings to live and will consider collecting SS at FRA of 66 1/2.

My question, since I have no kids and am all alone, do I need LTC insurance?
I figured I am not saving the money for anyone but myself and when and if the time comes that I may end up in a home, I figure whatever savings I have left can be used at that time. My understanding is that premiums continually go up and at present, I am using my money to live.

Would appreciate hearing anyone's thoughts.

Thank you.

 

[REWahoo]

My question, since I have no kids and am all alone, do I need LTC insurance?

No.

 

[misshathaway]

Same situation. I don't have it for the same reasons you don't.

My father had it but that was before insurers figured out that they were losing money on it. He got dementia and at that point it was a godsend for me as the only family.

I'm still figuring out the dementia-risk part. Hopefully, if I get it, there will be a ramp-up time while I am still lucid. There was about a 2 year ramp-up with my father.

 

[DrRoy]

Probably not. Money magazine has done some reviews on LTC insurance if you want to look into it more.

 

[Senator]

Likely not.

If you go in, and continue to improve, normal healthcare pays. If you go in for the duration, it's likely a 3-year trip. In the final six months, medicare pays hospice.

 

[Walt34]

I would say no also. With no dependents relying on your assets there is no need that I see to pay the insurance premiums to protect the assets. And even if you did, collecting on a claim can be problematic at best for someone with a sound mind.

 

[youbet]

My father had it but that was before insurers figured out that they were losing money on it. He got dementia and at that point it was a godsend for me as the only family.

Just curious mishathaway, why was you dad's LTC insurance a godsend for you? Even if he had run out of his own money while in the NH, he would have been switched to Medicaid. You would not have needed to pay the bill despite being "only family."

We're in a similar situation. MIL (widow) went into a NH as private pay, had only SS as income, eventually ran out of money and now is on Medicaid. (No LTC insurance.) Other than buying her some incidentals, it's costing us nothing other than time visiting and keeping the NH folks on their toes.

 

[youbet]

With no dependents relying on your assets there is no need that I see to pay the insurance premiums to protect the assets.

I agree with your view. If no one needs protection from asset depletion, don't pay to protect the assets.

 

[Dawg52]

I had it through a group rate with my old employer but I eventually dropped it. I'm single as well.

 

[Calico]

I'm single, I don't have it, and won't have it. If I eventually end up in a nursing home, and my assets are depleted, so be it. If not, then whatever's left when I depart will go to my sister's kids.

In the meantime, I just have to make sure my nieces and nephew don't find out I'm worth more (to them) dead than alive. So far so good.

 

[misshathaway]

Just curious mishathaway, why was you dad's LTC insurance a godsend for you? Even if he had run out of his own money while in the NH

He was at home. The help coming in allowed me to keep him at home. If we had to pay for it out of the estate eventually he would have had to go in to a home when the estate ran out.

 

[Marita40]

I'm also late 50s, single, no dependents, not yet retired. I have LTC insurance--have had a policy since I was 55--and mightily conflicted about the whole thing.

 

[Senator]

I'm also late 50s, single, no dependents, not yet retired. I have LTC insurance--have had a policy since I was 55--and mightily conflicted about the whole thing.

That is the problem with LTC insurance. When you turn 70, the premium could be $15K a month. It's not like life insurance, where the premiums are lower for the life of the policy if you buy it when you are younger.

If you do not need the money to increase your lifestyle, go ahead and buy it for the rest of us.

Looking at the statistics, very few people wind up in a nursing home and need LTC insurance. It is likely to be a less than 3-year trip, if you do. (although my father was in the VA nursing home for 5+ years...). The average stay for a NH resident that was dis

3-years, at $10K a month, is $360K. The first few days/months are covered by healthcare, assuming you are getting better with therapy. Medicare covers the first 30 'free', the next ~60 for ~$100 a day. The last few months are also covered by healthcare, in a hospice care setup. Pharmacy is covered, by part D, no different than if you are not in a home. I am not sure if this has changed, but that's what medicare was or my father.

If you have a pension, annuity, SS or investment income, that will offset the LTC costs quite a bit. Collecting $3K a month will take the $360K down to $252K. Combined with any healthcare and medicare benefits, a LTC trip will be $225K or so. You have less than

If you fall in the NH and have to go to the hospital for a day or so, you come back to the NH and get another 90 days from Medicare. At least my father was able to do that.

If you have the money from LTC insurance, you may be able to afford a better setup. Private room, better home, etc. Assuming you are mentally stable to arrange it. If you think a distant relative will do it for you, good luck. They are pulling the plug as soon as they are able to.

I am leaning on taking SS at 70, that will give a bit more for any LTC. Many LTC policies only cover less then $200 a day, for 3-5 years anyway.

• 79: Average age upon admittance to a nursing home.
• 40%: The percentage of individuals who reach age 65 who will enter a nursing home during their lifetimes.
• 892 days (2.44 years): Average length of stay for current nursing-home residents, 1999.
• 272 days (8.94 months): Average length of stay for discharged nursing-home residents, 1999.
• 38%: Percentage of nursing home patients who will eventually be discharged to go home or to another setting.
• 10%: The percentage of people who enter a nursing home who will stay there five or more years.
• 65%: The percentage of people who entered a nursing home who died within one year of admission.
• Five months: The typical length of nursing-home stay for patients who eventually died in the nursing home.

40 Must-Know Statistics About Long-Term Care

 

[big-papa]

Different situation for us. First difference, married + kid. Wife's mom, aunt, uncle, grandmother and great aunt all had alzheimers. Wiffe's mom and twin sister were both in a nursing home for 8+ years, first in an alzhiemers unit then in regular nursing home after the disease progressed to a certain point. Wife's dad had an LTC policy but cancelled it just a few years before she was diagnosed.

We each bought policies, but mine is pretty minimal compared to my wife's, given the family history.

 

[target2019]

Married couple is a different challenge. But, in common is family history of longevity and Alzheimers. This is one area where M-I-L made a tremendous choice, paying off growing LTC premiums over the years.

For a single individual, it is harder to make a case for the premium, IMO.

 

[Dash man]

We bought group LTC policies through our work about 14 years ago, costing about $3,000/year for both of us. It'll cover about 5 years with a pretty good daily rate and we can optionally adjust for inflation every three years. It's close to $500/day for coverage and half that for at home care. I don't see any reason to cancel it since the price has only gone up when we choose inflation increases. My DW's mom has dementia, so we're concerned about DW eventually needing LTC. I'm glad we got it young since we would never qualify for it now.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[VFK57]

If you save the LTC monthly insurance premium within 20 - 30 years, you would have a large amount what you may or may not need to cover help. Also sometimes insurance companies go out of business too. Yet in some cases, when employer / former employer participates in coverage it could be worth keeping it.

 

[Trawler]

I would say no. The only reason we have it is to insure the assets for the survivor and we do not have enough assets to self insure as we are married no kids. we hope when the last one of us is carted off to the home we are broke.

 

[Fedup]

I bought LTC when I was in my early 50s, I pay less than $1000 a year premium for about 3-year of care, $361 per day. I read online to get it while you are young, not sure if I will need it but for me it was before tax so it was peanuts. But eventually I will have a minimum pension that will cover this premium. I only have to pay from now to when I'm 62. It's reasonable to me. I do have assets for self-insured but I rather get some form of insurance. My husband didn't get it when he was first eligible, but I think I will be sane enough to hire someone to take care of him. But I wish he did buy LTC. I'm in the category of over insured crowd. Heck, I buy earthquake insurance for nearly 20 years and not have to use it.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[audreyh1]

We would only consider it to protect a surviving spouse, although some folks buy it to protect their heirs too. And IMO if you have an "extra" $250,000 to $400,000 "sitting around" that the surviving spouse would do OK without, you've already got the padding that an LTC insurance policy would provide. You can't buy an unlimited LTC policy today - payouts are finite.

 

[youbet]

Lots of anecdotal stories from folks who purchased LTC through a group or employer long ago and got an apparently great deal. But the question is, would you buy LTC as an individual in today's market and at today's rates?

 

[youbet]

He was at home. The help coming in allowed me to keep him at home. If we had to pay for it out of the estate eventually he would have had to go in to a home when the estate ran out.

OK, thanks for the info. To be sure I understand: the LTC paid for home care whereas Medicaid in your state would not have. Once on Medicaid he would have had to go into a NH for Medicaid to pay.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that angle. I'll have to check on the policy in Illinois regarding Medicaid paying for home care for dementia.

 

[rodi]

MIL does not have LTC and is in a memory unit. She's in spend-down mode right now - but once her house sells (should go on the market this week) she'll have enough cash to pay for several years... She turns 90 this year - so odds are she'll have enough... if not, medicaid will kick in 5 or so years from now.

We don't have it - despite being married/having kids. The quotes we received were pretty pricey. Our plan is to self insure... with the very big plan B of having the community spouse downsize and using the home equity to cover. It helps that we have a paid for overpriced California home... If the community spouse bought a condo for 1/2 the price... the other half of the equity would still pay for 5-10 years of very nice nursing home.

 

[Fedup]

MIL does not have LTC and is in a memory unit. She's in spend-down mode right now - but once her house sells (should go on the market this week) she'll have enough cash to pay for several years... She turns 90 this year - so odds are she'll have enough... if not, medicaid will kick in 5 or so years from now.

We don't have it - despite being married/having kids. The quotes we received were pretty pricey. Our plan is to self insure... with the very big plan B of having the community spouse downsize and using the home equity to cover. It helps that we have a paid for overpriced California home... If the community spouse bought a condo for 1/2 the price... the other half of the equity would still pay for 5-10 years of very nice nursing home.

Is your MIL in San Diego? I was wondering what's the average cost for NH in my area, southern Cal.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Marita40]

What's a "community spouse"?