Don't know what to do

[amy]

I'm not comfortable with psychiatry as a science and I think our understanding of what causes and how to alleviate "depression" is about as shaky as our ability to define the word.

I'm sure psychiatry has had its measure of successes and you have to applaud and encourage our progress in mental health but I'll bet their success rate with anti-depressants long term isn't much better than placebo.

Two years ago I saw the most horrific psychiatrist/patient thing play out with a co-worker. His wife divorced him, got custody of the kids, he fell into a depressoin, saw a shrink. Over a period of months he went from being unmedicated to being on 9 different medications. He stopped showing up for work, slept 18 hours a day and was finally fired.

Two years later he's still struggling with various medications, new doctors and lives back home with the parents.

Just another biased opinion for you.

"Well doctor it's my arm it hurts when I move it like this."
"Don't move it like that."
*canned laughter*

Yeah I like that sketch....I miss the Carol Burnett show too.

[retire@40]

I know lots of people in many different areas of the medical profession.* They all tell me to a person that people these days are way over-medicated.*

Doctors are prescribing more than they know they should because of the push/pull effect.* The drug companies are pushing them to sell, people are pulling for the meds.*

Many times people ask for meds just because they happened to see a commercial on TV.* Try counting how many Rx commercials you see during the 1/2 hour evening news.* Have you ever asked yourself why they are advertising to the public instead of just the medical profession?* It's a big dirty business.

[Caroline]

If your business is so competitive I wonder if you could sell it to the competition (who might pay handsomely to get you out of the fray).* Maybe they'd even take the business and / or you as a skilled consultant, part time?* That could add to your retirement stash and / or bring in part-time income afterwards.

The only other thing I'd add is that if I had your stash and Canadian medical care, I'd have left skid-marks on the way out already.*

Regarding the kids and college and wedding (huh!!!!!!!!!) costs, they would not be an issue.* My dad quit a stressful job at 55.* I paid for my own college and grad school, and I turned out just fine.* He's still with us at 76, and I wouldn't change any of it for the world. In fact, I would have HATED to have him stay at his job to pay for my college, only to die prematurely or live in misery. That's a hell of a burden to lay on a kid - are you sure you want to do that?* Have you asked them what they think?

Whatever your situation, there are always reasons NOT to do a thing. What would it be like to say "I AM WITHOUT a DOUBT going to retire on (date within the next year), and between then and now my wife and I are going to work together to MAKE that happen?* Go at it from a positive, instead of a negative point of view.

Whatever you do, best of luck to you.

[Meadbh]

Greetings from Somewhere in Canada!

First of all, as a physician, you do sound quite depressed to me. I'm hearing sleeping problems and lack of motivation. I suggest you Google "depression screening test" to find an online tool that you can use to determine how your mood rates. If the results suggest that you are, indeed, signficantly depressed, and ESPECIALLY if you have suicidal thoughts, PLEASE, PLEASE do tell your wife about it and see your primary care provider as soon as possible.

Your business is installing institutional kitchens. If it's burning you out, could you use your skills in a way that would leave you with some time to refresh? e.g. installing home kitchens perhaps? The real estate market is still hot in western Canada and so is renovation.

Now that that's out of the way, on Canadian investment funds......
Brewer is right; you need a diversified portfolio. The right mix for you is one that meets your risk tolerance. Your financial advisor should review this with you every few years as part of the Know Your Client process.

You would be wise to get out of Investors Group. IG has some good funds (I used to hold their Dividend Fund some years ago when it was doing very well), BUT their MERs (management expense ratios) are much too high. For example, Investors Dividend A has an MER of 2.76%. So if the fund earned 5% this year, your net earnings would be only 2.24%. MERs may be higher in Canada than in the US, but this is too much. An IG fund has to outperform the markets to give you an average real return.

In contrast, my MD Management funds have MERs of approximately 1%. (These funds are restricted to members of the Canadian Medical Association or their families).

Take a look at the Morningstar Canada site; you can compare and contrast funds to your heart's content. Also read the books by Ranga Chand and Gordon Pape.

Another idea, since you appear to have a portfolio in the high six figures, is to consider private client services. This is certainly a serious consideration if you have more than $1m to invest. I have had a very favourable experience with Scotia Private Client. Not only are the MERs quite reasonable, but I have a highly qualified financial advisor nurturing my segregated portfolio, which is beating the markets. The customer service is great too.

In contrast to what Nords said, you do have some discretion about whether you buy health insurance. Canadian medicare is not perfect (the principal problem is waiting times) but at least if you develop a catastrophic illness your hospital expenses will be covered and you will not lose your life savings. You have paid for this in your taxes and with four people in your household it is worth approximately $10K per annum to you. Supplementary health insurance is good to have in case you need lots of physiotherapy, vision care, massage, etc, but is icing on the cake.

Above all, take care of yourself.

Meadbh

[My Dream]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline If your business is so competitive I wonder if you could sell it to the competition (who might pay handsomely to get you out of the fray).* Maybe they'd even take the business and / or you as a skilled consultant, part time? * That could add to your retirement stash and / or bring in part-time income afterwards. The only other thing I'd add is that if I had your stash and Canadian medical care, I'd have left skid-marks on the way out already.* Regarding the kids and college and wedding (huh!!!!!!!!!) costs, they would not be an issue. * My dad quit a stressful job at 55.* I paid for my own college and grad school, and I turned out just fine.* He's still with us at 76, and I wouldn't change any of it for the world.* In fact, I would have HATED to have him stay at his job to pay for my college, only to die prematurely or live in misery.* That's a hell of a burden to lay on a kid - are you sure you want to do that?* Have you asked them what they think? Whatever your situation, there are always reasons NOT to do a thing.* What would it be like to say "I AM WITHOUT a DOUBT going to retire on (date within the next year), and between then and now my wife and I are going to work together to MAKE that happen?* Go at it from a positive, instead of a negative point of view. Whatever you do, best of luck to you.

I install institutional kitchens for a living, e.g., Casino's, Hospitals, Schools etc. I don't supply any material, I only charge for my labor. I can't sell the business since if I'm gone, my experience and skill is gone. I can’t sell my goodwill. I tried training 12 people and they all failed before the second year of my 5 year training schedule. The work load is very high and the stress level is unbelievable. For e.g. if I don't complete the contract on time, a $750,000,000 Casino won't get there occupancy, regardless whether the rest of the contract is complete. Therefore I have to pay a $1,000,000 per day penalty, even if I was delayed for any reason.

As for my kid’s education, I feel that this is a present I want to give or help them with since I wasn't there for them when I was a workaholic.

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Well, not to be harsh, but...

all I'm hearing from you are reasons and excuses for why you are not breaking out of your rut. I wouldn't presume to make specific suggestions about what to do and when, but until you start thinking creatively, positively and quantitatively you will get nowhere. Tried this, can't do that, can't ever make up for my guilt, blah blah blah.

Really can't sell the business? Then screw it - wrap it up and find another job. Not depressed (really?), then get over it and think about your plans and get to it -- by the way, I agree with Meadh's impression that several cardinal signs of depression are present. Maybe that is just situational but all the more reason to get moving. If you truly have clinical depression, that needs to be taken care of NOW. Then move on.

So, since Santa Claus or the genie in the lamp are probably not going to rescue you, get a plan, get advice about it wherever you can, and get on with it.

Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but it reflects my gut reaction to your posts. Sounds like you are a hard worker, have a strong skill set, have managed to save some real money and have all he basic ingredients. You are now officially your own worst enemy.

[Jane_Doe]

My Dream,

For what it's worth:

My husband was a contractor with his own business for almost 25 years. His stress level and blood pressure were just getting higher and higher as time went on. We had some money set aside so a couple years ago when things started to point towards pulling the plug, we JUST DID IT. We have used some of that money to live on (I run asmall business myself that he now helps with - our kids are off to college - another story). Anyway, spend some of that money, take some time to get your head staright and you may be very surprised at what is out there in life - opportunities and experieneces that you couldn't see before. Stop feeling guilty about what is past. Change what you can change about the NOW, now.

I believe we all get nudges and pushes from above trying to get us to move in a certain direction in our lives. Often we are too busy and don't notice these "signs" or chose to ignore them. Don't wait till you end up getting what I call a "shove" from above - something you can't ignore that drastically changes your life FOR you.

I also must agree with the two doctors as well as the other posters who are concerned for your mental health (aren't we lucky to have such a diverse group here). Suicide is NOT an option - if you are thinking of it - let someone know and make sure that you get help right away. Suicide never helps and it can truly DEVASTATE your family. Speaking from experience.

We all wish you the best. Let us know how you are doing.

Jane

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Quote:

The real estate market is still hot in western Canada and so is renovation.

(I tink Taranna is still in eastern Canada. )

But, oh, yes! Renovation is a very good business out here in Alberta, but I would not advise our friend to make any major life changes for now except drop the job ASAP.

I suggest:
1) Quit the job.
2) Take a rest, at least until spring.
3) Don't make any hasty financial decisions under stress, but do minimize your spending for a while. No point in digging yourself into a hole.
4) Count your blessings again. This should help with your feelings of depression.
5) Do see a doctor about your feelings.

There are a few Canadian-specific web sites that may help you sort out what you want to do money-wise:
http://forums.canadianbusiness.com/index.jspa
http://www.financialwebring.com/
(Many good sites. 'gummy's' web site has a ton of good stuff, but well-buried and I can't follow much of his math, but you don't need to.)

Derek Foster is a neighbor of yours who got famous for retiring early. Read about him here:
http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/stopwork.html and
http://forums.canadianbusiness.com/t...26937&tstart=0

Best of luck. Take care of your health.

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers,

Ed

[virginia]

I agree with Jane Doe - just DO it. It's what you know personally that you really need, you're just worried about the future. Many peope have found themselves simply out of work with no savings, no prospects, blah, blah, blah.
You're saying now that you just want to quit and not go back to work - who could blame you? You are under such an incredible amount of stress - it must be hard to think about working at all.
If you just do it - who knows, in a year or two - you may feel completely different. Another poster said something about doing home kitchen installations and such. Can you IMAGINE how easy for you that would be? You'd just be dealing with different tools, but the same concept, and it would be a BREEZE for you. I think that you're not able to see this clearly because of the complete and total burnout that you're under right now. Life is too short - do what is best for you. If you do that, things will fall into place as far as taking care of your family.

[Brat]

"Kitchen Consultant" is a real profession, at least on the west coast. It seem that everyone wants to have a kitchen that makes them look like they really know what they are doing. You know the commercial end, leverage that knowledge to cater to the consumer want-to-be. You really do have skills that are marketable. Try developing a website aimed at the home-owner and see what happens.

[AltaRed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy There are a few Canadian-specific web sites that may help you sort out what you want to do money-wise: http://forums.canadianbusiness.com/index.jspa http://www.financialwebring.com/ (Many good sites. 'gummy's' web site has a ton of good stuff, but well-buried and I can't follow much of his math, but you don't need to.) Derek Foster is a neighbor of yours who got famous for retiring early. Read about him here: http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/stopwork.html and http://forums.canadianbusiness.com/t...26937&tstart=0

Was away for a few days and just read this thread. Will only add a few comments on the financial side as regards being a DIY investor. I would specifically suggest you read the Financial Planning thread here.

http://financialwebring.com/forum/vi...c.php?t=101652

There is a wealth of information in the Investing and Implementation sections of that thread. Putting all your eggs in GICs is not the right answer for reasons already cited (inflation), but an asset allocation that includes a mix of equities and fixed income probably is. It can be done as simply as ~5 ETFs via a discount broker like TD Waterhouse, BMO Investorline, or E*Trade. IG is NOT where you want to be....very expensive and very vested interests.

I would consider Barclay's XIU ETF for broad TSX60 market, or if you want to have a bit more dividend, try XDV instead. I would also add some XSP to catch the S&P500 and it is currency hedged to the C$. I would also include some XIN for International exposure, also currency hedged to the C$. I would include XSB for Short term bond index for some of your fixed income component and also a similar amount of laddered GICs to assure yourself of capital preservation.

Income trusts are going through a bit of a shakedown right now on energy prices and would not suggest entering them at this time. If you do decide on a few income trusts, stick with a few of the largest ones that are also being bought by money managers and institutions... not the small ones only being bought and sold by the retail market.

A good REIT like RioCan is also a potential add. The RE market in Canada, particularly on the commercial/retail side like RioCan, is not in a shakedown mode as it is in various places in the US.

[Caroline]

Quote:

As for my kid’s education, I feel that this is a present I want to give or help them with since I wasn't there for them when I was a workaholic.

Well... it's your life, of course.

That said, this is a CHOICE you are making -- you are not being forced to support your children through college OR to pay for their weddings.

If you're not going to make any changes to what you have CHOSEN to do, it might help to reframe your view of them -- they are options YOU have selected, and not decisions that were foisted upon you by others.

Slavery has been outlawed in these United States.

[My Dream]

Sorry for being away from the forum for a couple of days.
Now back to the matter at hand. In reading some of the responses, I believe that this thread has gone a bit off topic, and I must get one thing straight, in no way have I mentioned the word suicide let alone thought about it. I did see where the work was used but it wasn't by me. Suicide in NOT an option for me and we don't even need to go there. I'm a bit depressed but as was mentioned, if depressed remove yourself from what's making you depressed. That's exactly what I want to do.
The bottom line is have I generated enough capital to be able to obtain "My Dream" of being in a position to retire early. That dream was supposed to happen in 3 years, but I'm at a point in my life where I feel my work has overwhelmed me and I need to leave and retire now. By doing so, I can regain my marriage which has already started, become a better father to my kids, by being there every day, and stop being depressed due to my work situation. Based on my actions during the last year, I believe I may have already retired since I don't have any more work lined up.
My question always remained, based on the information already given and any other question you may want to ask, can I retire now at age 50?

Again I appreciate any help and please feel free to make some comment since some of you have no problems being brutally honest…lol After all, I did ask for it.


Thanks

[FinanceDude]

I would do this:

Make a list of the things that are IMPORTANT to you.

Rank them in order, most important first.

Keep that list with you everyday.

Bottom line, is money or your health important to you? Is money more important than your marriage, or not? These are tough questions you need to answer yourself.

Most people find that the simple things in life are MORE important than a standard of living supported by income gained my working in a stressful job backed by unhealthy choices.

I think you CAN retire, but the income you are making now would be far greater than the 4% withdrawal......... Many people on here get by on less after they retire, but not sure if that's your mantra.

I think most people who ER'd found that the "stress: of living on their investments was FAR LESS than the STRESS of working like a dog to make money.............

The day I can't stand coming to work is the day I pull the plug.................

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Dream My question always remained, based on the information already given and any other question you may want to ask, can I retire now at age 50?

OK, you want a straight answer, I will give you one (or at least my opinion).

You beat around the bush a bit, but I will make the assumtion that you have a $950k CAD portfolio out of which you need to generate $30k CAD to retire. Yo are in Canada, so I will assume that you have healthcare taken care of (a major issue to US retirees) and you will eventually have some sort of gov't pension coming (analagous to SS in the US). So given all these assumptions, I'd say yes, you can afford to retire now. But I will give you three caveats:

1. Make darned sure your spouse is on board before you declare yourself fully retired. I can imagine a scenario where you do a little work in the future, maybe doing some high end residential installations, but make the assumption that you are bailing out completely and that your spouse is OK with that.
2. Make sure you know that expense number is solid. If you are off by a lot, it will be a problem.
3. An all GIC portfolio won't cut it. You don't have to do anything drastic in the next 6 months, but within a year you should expect to spend some time educating yourself on investing and make a big change in your portfolio. People here on the forun can give you suggestions on how to learn what you need to know, and you can get lots of criticism advice on re-making your portfolio after you have done the reading.

[My Dream]

FinanceDude


Bottom line, is money or your health important to you? Is money more important than your marriage, or not?

I never really put much thought into it, but I would have to say that marriage and health come first, then money. Heck, if I have my family and health, I can pump gas for a living.

I think you CAN retire, but the income you are making now would be far greater than the 4% withdrawal......... Many people on here get by on less after they retire, but not sure if that's your mantra.

We're eliminated a lot of expenses and found that we can break even on around $45,000 per year, and that's not including taking vacations. Keep in mind that we still have 2 kids that we are raising. I'm sure I could reduce by eliminating internet and cable and I'm sure a few other things but that would only save us a few more thousand a year more.

The day I can't stand coming to work is the day I pull the plug.................

That day came to me several years ago.


brewer12345

OK, you want a straight answer, I will give you one (or at least my opinion).

Please do!

I will make the assumption that you have a $950k CAD portfolio

Then no more beating around the bush........Yes I do.! that includes RRSP's not including all items we own e.g. home car's etc. which are paid for.

Make darned sure your spouse is on board before you declare yourself fully retired.

We've been married over 21 years, so I believe her when she says she is.

I will assume that you have healthcare taken care of (a major issue to US retirees) and you will eventually have some sort of gov't pension coming

Basic health care is, but I allowed a for a little more coverage in my retirement budget. Gov't pension is very minimal so I have to rely on our portfolio.

I can imagine a scenario where you do a little work in the future, maybe doing some high end residential installations, but make the assumption that you are bailing out completely and that your spouse is OK with that.

I want to make the assumption that I'm bailing out and she knows that also. I also know the she believes that I wouldn't let my family starve and would go out and get a job to feed them if our portfolio fell apart.

Make sure you know that expense number is solid. If you are off by a lot, it will be a problem.

We need $45,000 per year, to break even, she works part time making $15,000 so our portfolio needs to bring in $30,000. Then when the kids move out, we could probably live on maybe $35,000. Cad.

You don't have to do anything drastic in the next 6 months, but within a year you should expect to spend some time educating yourself on investing and make a big change in your portfolio.

I've have many a sleepless night thinking about retiring that I've already made changes, such as lived even more below my means, am in the process of moving most of my money out of Investors Group, (which is not very pleasant) changing part of the portfolio around.

People here on the forum can give you suggestions on how to learn what you need to know, and you can get lots of criticism advice on re-making your portfolio after you have done the reading.

Thank you so very much, and am looking forward to it.

[Brat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Dream ...Keep in mind that we still have 2 kids that we are raising. I'm sure I could reduce by eliminating internet and cable and I'm sure a few other things but that would only save us a few more thousand a year more. ...

Oh the kids will kick up a storm!!! The reality is that most of us didn't have those services when we were kids and spent more time in the library as a result. When you are retired you will have an opportunity to plug into their lives and take up some of that TV and internet time. You don't need to completely disconnect from internet.. there is a lot of cheap dial-up available today. This would be a good example of saving to be able to do things later, whether it is saving to buy their first car or college.

However, YOU may miss cable service.

Depending on the age of the children, after you and your wife have worked out a plan together, you could have a family meeting to discuss the change in your lives and the budget. I wouldn't tell them how much you have saved, but you could tell them that you have saved and will be using some of those savings.

[Coach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Dream My question always remained, based on the information already given and any other question you may want to ask, can I retire now at age 50?

My Dream, the answer is yes. Will you be able to retire, live the lifestyle you want, and fund college educations and weddings? If you're looking for an absolute yes or no, I don't think you'll get that from anyone here.

But with every year that goes by you'll have a better idea. So, keep working now in case the answer is no? Or retire now, and maybe have to go back to work in one, two, five, 10 years?

Retire now.

Coach

[My Dream]

Coach

keep working now in case the answer is no? Or retire now, and maybe have to go back to work in one, two, five, 10 years?

I've pretty well already stopped working, if I do eventually go back into the workforce, I will only make approximatly 30% of what I made before. It's complicated but that's what the figure would be. If I wanted to make more then I would have to give up to much, it wouldn't be worth it.

[Corporateburnout]

Dream,

I am new to this board. I can tell you that I have decided this past weekend to quit my middle management position that pays me about 150k/year because I have been miserable the last few months. Working extremely long hours with no end in sight. I am fed up with corporate america and want a change. I came to the conclusion that my health, my family and my sanity are much more important that money. I know that I can't afford to retire unless if I move to a cheaper area of the country where I can realize the profit from selling my house and buying a cheaper one there but my wife is not ready yet. I plan to take a few months off since my DW increased her work hours to qualify for health benefits then look for less stressfull work knowing well that I will take a substantial pay cut.

My advice to you is to get out and don't look back. If your health and your family is more important to you then it should be an easy decision............