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Old 12-28-2019, 11:50 PM   #41
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Excellent point!

Even more, with unlimited free energy and food production, and with all the work done by robots, we will all get free housing, food, healthcare... The only thing to worry about is how to entertain ourselves, because life will be so safe it may become boring.

Didn't some places already experiment with universal income? Even the people who are broke will get plenty of support when every item of necessities becomes so abundant. Nothing to worry about.
I'm not sue about the living to 140 part, but I'm onboard with robots and self sufficient living. Maybe I'll live in a3D printed $4K home some day, with inexpensive solar power and a permaculture yard -https://www.businessinsider.com/3d-h...o-print-2018-9
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Old 12-28-2019, 11:58 PM   #42
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Wow!

If I will not be too broke, I prefer the 2,000-sf home for $20,000 instead of the 350-sf for $4,000.

If energy will be so cheap or even free, I should be able to cool and heat the larger home.
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Old 12-29-2019, 04:23 AM   #43
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@pb4uski I thought this was suppose to be a friendly group (per the terms I agreed to)
You may be sincere and legit but you need to understand that this group has been burned quite often by sincere and legit sounding new posters who turn out to be trolls. So forgive our wariness.

I've advocated a policy where new posters must wait in 'lurk' mode a week or two before being allowed to post which, at the least would give new members a chance to get a feel for the tone, cadence and decorum of this forum.
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Old 12-29-2019, 04:37 AM   #44
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We aren't afraid of anything, just want to keep this forum free from salescritters pitching the latest snake oil to make us all rich.
Yes, your "infinite banking" scam has been discussed many times on this forum over the years (as a simple search shows). Not worth going through it again.
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Old 12-29-2019, 04:52 AM   #45
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I guess I would live in a 120+ community playing Pickleball with 8 people on each side.
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:02 AM   #46
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@jazz4cash ...your comment sounds like the sarcasm they asked us not to express on this site. If you want to put down the Infinite Banking Concept which is designed to assist folks reaching their goals of Financial Independence, you need to be able to convey the FULL benefits of it and then explain to everyone why those things are not important. Otherwise, you are not serving this community with unbiased support and advice.
No, he doesn't "need" to do that. Folks are free to express opinions as fully or as sparsely as they wish. You've brought in a new concept and are a new member, so if anything the burden is on you to provide a little more data if you really want to push this "concept". (and probably...not the best idea anyway)

I'll start. The average life expectancy of someone born today in the US isn't 140 (as you waved at in your first post), not even close. The SSA calculator puts a female born this month at an average of 87. Average lifespan ticks up on average about 1 year every 5 years. So, 50 years from now, someone born in 2069 can expect to live to 97. Still not close to 140.

Most folks here are using numbers north of 90 to plan their retirement. 95 or 100 are common inputs in firecalc.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:36 AM   #47
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@pb4uski job well done on the work and the discipline to put yourself in a position to retire at 56 in 2012. I want you and others in similar positions to continue to thrive in retirement, though I want to make note of a couple things that you could consider. “Average rate of return” is not real rate of return, and within various windows of time the “average” is typically lower. Another consideration is, how does one adjust their “prudent 4%” annual withdrawal when their portfolio drops by the “26.6%” noted in this article? https://www.financialsamurai.com/his...io-weightings/.
Lastly, so far I have been reading commentary from folks on here that believe I am a scum salesperson of life insurance policies. My goal is for everyone that wants financial independence to have it. Whole life policies are not just a financial windfall for dead people’s heirs. They provide financial certainty and freedom within the owner of the policy’s lifetime. A question (of many) for everyone to ponder that desires FI is, “is each dollar you utilize doing more than one job when put into whatever portfolio split you choose?”
The answer is “no”. Becoming Your Own Banker utilizing a whole life policy is the only vehicle that provides your hard earned dollars to perform multiple jobs...and tax-free, at that.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:48 AM   #48
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@harley I never said the market was a scam ...it is a business and stated what its “job” is.
Not even close to being the first to recognize this.

Btw, don’t “good manners” go for everyone...including you?
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:52 AM   #49
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It starts with not being deceitful about life expectancy. You either lied about that or are clueless, neither of which makes the rest of what you say very trustworthy.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:56 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by IBC_FriendOfNelsons View Post
... Becoming Your Own Banker utilizing a whole life policy is the only vehicle that provides your hard earned dollars to perform multiple jobs...and tax-free, at that.
Same as many others here, I am my own banker to manage my stash. Our chance for financial survival can exceed that of many insurers, when things get really bad.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:58 AM   #51
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@Aerides I agree everyone is and always should be entitled to their “opinions”, though they should not convey them as something factual unless they can back them up. I am happy to engagement in respectful discourse if folks want to learn from one another. In fact, I am looking to be factual debunked on my understandings, if someone would intelligently articulate where my blind spot is. I’m open minded...I was looking for that kind of discussion here...not to be called out for “BS” or as a “salescritter” or that my work of choice is some sort of “scam”, etc. None of that helps us all learn and evolve.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:02 AM   #52
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In fact, I am looking to be factual debunked on my understandings, if someone would intelligently articulate where my blind spot is. I’m open minded...
Well, you might start by providing a credible source your your assertion that new avg life expectancy is 140 years.
Quote:
I was looking for that kind of discussion here...not to be called out for “BS” or as a “salescritter” or that my work of choice is some sort of “scam”, etc. None of that helps us all learn and evolve.
I would suggest you stop taking selective offense at other’s posts and stick to making simple points with substantive support.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:03 AM   #53
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@RunningBum Wow, deceitful seems too harsh. Truthfully, no one truly knows what potential advancements in human longevity could be coming down the pike. I was wrong not to put a link behind the words “I heard”.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:04 AM   #54
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Here is a look at "infinite banking", what it is and for whom the author says it might be a good fit (hint: you need a nest egg of $10M or be on the receiving end of the sales commission for it to be worthwhile).


UNDERSTANDING INFINITE BANKING: DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR YOU?

Quote:
At first blush, infinite banking sounds like a somewhat inefficient way to save money first and then spend it. In fact, until you have very strong cash flow, that’s exactly what it is.

If you want to “bank on yourself” and escape the tyranny of modern banking, an easy way to do it is to save money by earning more and spending less than you earn. That way, when you need to make a big purchase, you’ll have the cash you need to do it.

That said, for the mega-high income and mega-wealthy person, infinite banking could make some sense. Whole life insurance policies have certain advantages (cannot be garnished in a lawsuit for example), and could make sense for estate planning purposes (if you're looking at estate tax liability). The ability to draw down the cash value for investment or consumption is basically an added benefit.

Are you mega-wealthy ($10m plus in liquid assets)? If so, ask your financial advisor about infinite banking. If you’re not, skip the infinite banking for now, and work on saving cash for you next purchase and making long term investments.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:07 AM   #55
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@pb4uski I thought this was suppose to be a friendly group (per the terms I agreed to)
The group is friendly, but very intolerant of preposterous statements like your assertion about markets.

I think it's beyond the group's scope to try to educate you at such a basic level. I suggest that you spend some quality time with "The Instant Economist" by Tim Taylor. (https://www.amazon.com/Instant-Econo.../dp/0452297524)
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:14 AM   #56
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If I had $10 milion in liquid assets, why would I ever need to borrow money at all? And, if I really needed to, I'm pretty sure I could borrow at a good rate with a HELOC from one of my banks. Also, if I had $10 million in liquid assets, why would I need life insurance? Surely my widow could survive on that. You know, having been frugal enough that we could accumulate that much in the first place.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:16 AM   #57
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So, does this mean that if you had a $100K policy, you could borrow, say $50K even if you had only paid into it for a few months?

Or would you need to have paid $50K into it first and have some sort of balance to that amount?

If the latter, I'm stumped as to how this could possibly be a good idea.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:18 AM   #58
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... Whole life policies are not just a financial windfall for dead people’s heirs. They provide financial certainty and freedom within the owner of the policy’s lifetime. ...
Actually you're right. The certainty and freedom, however, are provided to the insurance salesman and the insurance company, not to the mark.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:28 AM   #59
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So, does this mean that if you had a $100K policy, you could borrow, say $50K even if you had only paid into it for a few months?

Or would you need to have paid $50K into it first and have some sort of balance to that amount?

If the latter, I'm stumped as to how this could possibly be a good idea.
I'm surely no expert, but my experience with whole life policies is that you can borrow only a portion of the cash value, which cash value only accumulates as you pay premiums. You can't put a bunch of money all in at the beginning because that would violate the modified endowment contract rules and you would lose the beneficial tax treatment of the cash value investment growth. https://www.investopedia.com/article...ract-traps.asp

So it is a very long term strategy at best.
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Old 12-29-2019, 09:40 AM   #60
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@Aerides I agree everyone is and always should be entitled to their “opinions”, though they should not convey them as something factual unless they can back them up. I am happy to engagement in respectful discourse if folks want to learn from one another. In fact, I am looking to be factual debunked on my understandings, if someone would intelligently articulate where my blind spot is. I’m open minded...I was looking for that kind of discussion here...not to be called out for “BS” or as a “salescritter” or that my work of choice is some sort of “scam”, etc. None of that helps us all learn and evolve.
Really what you should say is that you are here to sell whole life etc. You're here to share only one thing i.e., infinite banking. You're not here to learn about anything else, no matter what you might say.
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