Ensuring enough money if live to be super old

[ERD50]

+1

I suggest the deleted thread file.

Please no. I'm going to bed, and I want to "play" here tomorrow!

-ERD50

 

[pb4uski]

....what if you (or someone else reading this) could have recaptured the average American’s 34.5 percent of every dollar going towards interest charges of their creditors.... I am surprised this site is not more about educating...

Ok, in the spirit of educating, it is time for you to put up (or shut up) on your statement that 34.5% of every dollar goes to interest. What is your citation for that statement?

The Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis indicates that household debt service as a percent of disposable personal income is currently less than 10% and has never been more than 13.5%. And debt service would include both interest and principal, so those percentages are on the high side if just interest was included.

Source: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TDSP

This source suggests that the average American family pays about $8,037 in interest each year.

So, let’s put it all together: If you’re an average American family with a mortgage on a median-priced home, at least one car payment, an average student loan burden, and just one credit card with an average balance, you could be paying $8,037 or more just in interest each year. Source: https://www.thesimpledollar.com/loa...-average-american-pays-in-interest-each-year/

In 2019, average household income in the United States was $89,930.70. Source: https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

So $8,037 of interest is 8.9% of $89,930.70.... very consistent with the St. Louis Fed result or less than 10%.

In any event, reality is less than 1/3 of your outrageous 34.5% and impairs the credibility of anything that you post. You'll find that this group prefers facts to speculation and expects posters to provide sources for their assertions.

 

[Chuckanut]

This may seem naive, but my understanding of the stock market’s return history is that the longer the time period the more assured one is of good over-all returns. So, if one lives to 140 the chances are much better of getting a good solid positive return than if one didn’t make it much past 70.
Therefore, there is very little possibility of a long life problem with a good investment plan.

Or did I miss something?

Did I mention I am buying a great COLA’d annuity from my Uncle Sam that starts when I am 70? Another way to ensure funds if I really beat the mortality tables.

 

[Niuatoputapu]

Here's a nice article about the "Be Your Own Banker" concept that explains things in a bit more detail.

https://kahlerfinancial.com/financial-awakenings/insurance/byob-dont-join-this-party

Walt34 - thanks for posting the informative link at Post #73. I understand IBC a little better. The OP has not provided any argument that persuasively disputes that critique. This site does educate.

IBC_FriendOfNelsons - I realize I could learn more by reading "Be your own Banker" and "The Case for IBC", but nothing you have posted suggests such reading would be anything but a waste of time. You have not presented IBC as a better alternative to anything. That criticism is not unfriendly or a challenge of your right to free speech. It is just advice that you have not made a persuasive argument for IBC. I suspect it is because it is difficult to justify the concept/product - especially to this informed group.

 

[Gumby]

@REWahoo...so much for your support of Americans right to free speech. Collectively, we are spoiled and unappreciative. It is very disheartening.

The First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States provides, in part, that "Congress shall make no law .... abridging the freedom of speech...." The first thing to notice about this language is that it restricts "Congress". Subsequent Supreme Court case law has held that the 14th Amendment implicitly applies this guarantee to the state government as well.

What it means is that the "government" cannot (in most circumstances) forbid you to speak or punish you if you do. It most certainly does not control a private forum or a private individual. Nor does it mean that your speech will be entirely free of consequences. People may disagree with you and manifest that disagreement in various ways - among others, they can simply argue. They could also shun or boycott you.

 

[Bryan Barnfellow]

+1 Gumby. Free speech is so often bandied about as including "restricted listening"...you MUST listen to me; I have the right to speak and you do not have the right to ignore me or contest my content.

-BB

 

[Gumby]

@Gumby I appreciate the good spirit of your message, though I do believe you are misleading folks here in a couple of ways. One is that what I have been referencing is the Infinite Banking Concept and I have not been trying to sell or write a policy. In your earlier post you stated that you thought I was being “somewhat misleading” regarding cash value being tax-free. The IBC is not about “surrendering” the policy. Surrendering is the equivalent of “going out of business” and liquidating all assets. With a IBC-focused business entity, this surrender is meant to only occur at death and this “bank” is closed and its assets go directly to insured’s estate and (hopefully) passed to insured’s benefactors through an up-to-date trust. I would go into much greater depth with a prospective client than what we have all shared over the passed 24 hours.
Two, it is also misleading to say owning your own WL policy and borrowing against the cash value means that you have been practicing the Infinite Banking Concept and the true value of it. There is much greater value to the IBC than just borrowing against your policy.
Lastly, I believe you are for some undisclosed reason trying to scare folks (and mostly me) that I have stepped over some compliance and/or disclosure laws during this thread, I am confident that I haven’t, and I also take it seriously that people buy into this concept if they are going to start it. In fact, I give my prospective clients one or two books to read before agreeing to assist them in creating this new entity. Becoming Your Own Banker and The Case For IBC. Both written (at least in part) by R. Nelson Nash.

Well, I'm glad you are so confident that all your representations will pass legal muster when the time comes. I am not your regulator. I am just a guy who wants to ensure that forum members receive complete and correct information.

It is, in my opinion, misleading to say, as you did to aerides, that "cash for those last 2 cars in your personal Retire Early (RE) bank growing 5-6% tax free annually", without also pointing out that the growth is only tax free if you do not surrender the policy and it pays out on death. It is misleading to call it a "bank" or a "bank account", as you did with me (post 108) and others. It is an insurance policy, not a bank account, which has specific legal protections, among them FDIC insurance. It is misleading to say "WL which gets less expensive over time (and can/does become basically free for many owners)," when the mortality charges come from your cash value growth. It is also just incorrect to say that a baby born today has a life expectancy at birth of 140 years and that 34.5% of every dollar goes to interest charges. Finally, it is incorrect to say that the proceeds of a life insurance policy go into my estate when I die. They don't. They go straight to the contractually specified beneficiary (not benefactor) and there isn't a need for a trust to make that happen.

You do yourself no favors by omitting important information that would allow people to properly evaluate your product or by providing incorrect information. Heck, I know these things and still decided to purchase a whole life policy, for my own specific reasons.

Finally, as I suspected, you can point to no factual inaccuracy in any of the things I said earlier, only some vague handwaving about the fact that I just don't fully understand the infinite banking concept or haven't been doing it right. You'll have to do better than that.

 

[FIREd]

Well, that was entertaining. Thanks all!