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11-05-2016, 07:53 AM
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#21
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 617
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I'm surprised that this side of retirement does not come up more in the forum. I suspect that there is a closet contingent, including me, who are struggling with finding new ways to experience fulfillment. I've been at it a year. Activities that simply fill time seem like a waste of these hard-won years. I have not yet found another passion.
Don't have much to offer for advice. Just wanted to let you know that you aren't the only one.
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11-05-2016, 08:12 AM
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#22
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
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Perhaps many people are chasing a Chimera, with the expectation that 'life' is something that it's not.......life is what it is, 'you' adjust to it, it doesn't adjust to you.......grab what you can when you can.
I just turned 74, I discontinued employment three months after I turned 46.....had some easy times, had some hard times...I enjoy what I have while I have it.
__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
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11-05-2016, 08:44 AM
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#23
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 8,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogaigh
...
I am sad because looming large over all of these things is a sort of emptiness. Retiring early has brought into focus the fact that life is essentially without meaning or ultimate purpose. The things I do are enjoyable, but this is different than being meaningful. I guess the thought of just filling my days with activities, enjoyable as they may be, until I die, just seems absurd. Of course, it was always absurd, but earlier in my life I was too busy to notice. Early retirement forced me to look at the absurdity of existence, and I still have not come to terms with it. ...
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Some here say you might be depressed and to see a professional. They could be right.
On the other hand, maybe life has no higher purpose then to reproduce itself. This goes on in cycles until eventually the sun exhausts it's fuel and all this goes away. Life ends on Earth. But that will be billions of years from now. Maybe just celebrate the little things that living offers. Our personal time to contemplate and enjoy is short.
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11-05-2016, 08:49 AM
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#24
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 8,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misshathaway
I'm surprised that this side of retirement does not come up more in the forum.
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Me too.
Quote:
I suspect that there is a closet contingent, including me, who are struggling with finding new ways to experience fulfillment. I've been at it a year. Activities that simply fill time seem like a waste of these hard-won years. I have not yet found another passion.
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Sometimes I feel this way. Being retired doesn't end the struggle to enjoy the day. And when it seems hopeless, it's usually bedtime.
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11-05-2016, 09:05 AM
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#25
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogaigh
I am sad because looming large over all of these things is a sort of emptiness. Retiring early has brought into focus the fact that life is essentially without meaning or ultimate purpose. The things I do are enjoyable, but this is different than being meaningful. I guess the thought of just filling my days with activities, enjoyable as they may be, until I die, just seems absurd. Of course, it was always absurd, but earlier in my life I was too busy to notice. Early retirement forced me to look at the absurdity of existence, and I still have not come to terms with it.
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I could easily have written this exact post about a year ago, and in fact I did start a thread titled "Coping with excessive solitude" that touched on some vaguely similar themes.
What you are dealing with in a very stark way in your life right now is something known as "philosophical pessimism". This is a philosophy that was explored and written about primarily by Arthur Schopenhauer, Albert Camus, and Friedrich Nietzsche in the 19th and 20th centuries. It is a fairly bleak view of the condition of human existence, but I can assure you it is not incompatible with finding happiness and peace in one's life.
I'm living proof of this. I find Schopenhauer's philosophical pessimism quite compelling, yet I have been able to reconcile this with an optimism in my own life based on a number of different concepts. First, although I do recognize that all human endeavors ultimately have no intrinsic "meaning", I also recognize that we have to create that sense of meaning and purpose for ourselves somehow. For me, that means staying busy doing things that I know provide both short-term and long-term enjoyment and fulfillment. For example, planning trips. The planning process takes awhile (for longer or more exotic trips) and then the trip itself provides excitement and adventure, etc. Also, I actively seek out and spend time with other people who share my worldview. I have done this over the past year by joining various Meetup groups that have a scientific, skeptical, rational, philosophical theme to them. This way, I can have very interesting, friendly, and fulfilling discussions with people about topics like philosophical pessimism (and lots of other stuff) and can hear their insights about how they are making their way through life.
Ultimately, you have to find a way to make peace with the absurdity of life and just enjoy it moment to moment as best you can. Reading more about philosophical pessimism would be a great place to start, so that you can see there have been some brilliant people who have struggled with and articulated this philosophy over the centuries. That in itself can be very reassuring. Check out the writings of Nietzsche, especially, since his take on the matter was more optimistic than some others.
Philosophical_pessimism (Wikipedia)
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11-05-2016, 09:10 AM
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#26
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,019
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You may be going through a transition that's not unusual for retirees. You've been retired about 3 years. Those years have been filled with doing things you wished you could have done while you were w*rking, like house projects and going for walks during the day. Now that has run its course, and it's time to find your passion. For some, it's making a differences in others' lives. For others, it's making a difference in one's own life, for example learning a new skill or improving an existing one.
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11-05-2016, 09:53 AM
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#27
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Utrecht
Posts: 2,650
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Sounds like you are in suffering. Take it seriously, but also don't despair. You are handed a new set of cards and have to learn how to play them, that's all.
Could be many things triggering you: loss of identity, status, purpose. Or just a disease (literally) dragging you down. Even a hormonal imbalance.
Being without external pressures also can be very disconcerting, especially if you never had that before. For the first time it's about you. Being handed a blank piece of paper and a pencil with the assignment being: "draw what you want" is a life skill few of us need, and certainly aren't prepared for. "What's the point" is a natural first reaction. And there isn't one. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
My brother was without job for two months and it started driving him nuts. He can't do it. Needs something to run towards. I can easily stare in the abyss, see the blackness ahead and not freak out. It's actually comforting, and makes me laugh sometimes. The upside of the silliness and lightness of being. Brother is now starting up a company, first time ever. He's very happy and driven now. Small change, big effect.
Also, early retirement it seems is sometimes experienced like relocating to paradise for introverts, and to a living hell for extroverts. The former arrive home, the latter feel outcasts in a desert and easily drop into depression.
Anyway, beyond the obvious "go get some counseling" and "do lots of exercise", here are some ideas to get you moving forward:
That last link: ignore the buddhism wrapping. Try and recognize the basic message: you can train baseline happiness to some degree. It works in my own personal experience. I had mild depression on and off.
You have been given a great gift: Time. What you haven't been given is the manual on how to use it effectively and for maximum happiness.
Keep posting your thoughts here.
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11-05-2016, 09:53 AM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 35,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner
I could easily have written this exact post about a year ago, and in fact I did start a thread titled "Coping with excessive solitude" that touched on some vaguely similar themes.
What you are dealing with in a very stark way in your life right now is something known as "philosophical pessimism". This is a philosophy that was explored and written about primarily by Arthur Schopenhauer, Albert Camus, and Friedrich Nietzsche in the 19th and 20th centuries. It is a fairly bleak view of the condition of human existence, but I can assure you it is not incompatible with finding happiness and peace in one's life.
I'm living proof of this. I find Schopenhauer's philosophical pessimism quite compelling, yet I have been able to reconcile this with an optimism in my own life based on a number of different concepts. First, although I do recognize that all human endeavors ultimately have no intrinsic "meaning", I also recognize that we have to create that sense of meaning and purpose for ourselves somehow. For me, that means staying busy doing things that I know provide both short-term and long-term enjoyment and fulfillment. For example, planning trips. The planning process takes awhile (for longer or more exotic trips) and then the trip itself provides excitement and adventure, etc. Also, I actively seek out and spend time with other people who share my worldview. I have done this over the past year by joining various Meetup groups that have a scientific, skeptical, rational, philosophical theme to them. This way, I can have very interesting, friendly, and fulfilling discussions with people about topics like philosophical pessimism (and lots of other stuff) and can hear their insights about how they are making their way through life.
Ultimately, you have to find a way to make peace with the absurdity of life and just enjoy it moment to moment as best you can. Reading more about philosophical pessimism would be a great place to start, so that you can see there have been some brilliant people who have struggled with and articulated this philosophy over the centuries. That in itself can be very reassuring. Check out the writings of Nietzsche, especially, since his take on the matter was more optimistic than some others.
Philosophical_pessimism (Wikipedia)
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I just got myself some reading material. Thank you.
As much as I liked philosophy in college, it was one of the very few classes where I earned a C. Now, I have more time to go back to study this subject.
__________________
"Old age is the most unexpected of all things that happen to a man" -- Leon Trotsky (1879-1940)
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
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11-05-2016, 09:58 AM
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#29
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Little Trailer Down By The River
Posts: 190
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I am not a physician and decline to offer medical advice. That said, there is depression in the clinical sense which is devastating and which should be treated and there is simply an awareness that in point of fact there is nothing out there. This will sound weird, but after being certain that you are not in the clinical camp, perhaps a rigorous series of courses in philosophy would fill the bill. Whatever you do, do not get tied up with the religious.
__________________
"Here's to them who would read,
Here's to them that would write.
There's none ever feared that the Truth would be heard,
But those whom the Truth would indict."
Robert Burns
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11-05-2016, 10:01 AM
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#30
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 862
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I have been a volunteer business counselor with SCORE for about 8 years now ( www.score.org ). It's a nonprofit organization under the US SBA, of retired senior executives, who provide counseling to aspiring entrepreneurs.
We guide them through business planning, cash flow projection, licensing, insurance, staffing, inventory, marketing and many other areas associated with what they hope to do.
There are chapters all over the country, and this might be an stimulating environment for you, if you like to teach and mentor others to start and run a business.
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11-05-2016, 10:56 AM
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#31
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,654
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For me, I decided when I was around 19 that although life has no "meaning," it is there to be lived as best you can according to your own lights and without harming other people. No use making anything more out of it than that. I did have a bit of religious education, but hadn't read any philosophers - that came later and did nothing to change my view, in fact it confirmed it.
This will sound like a joke, but I honestly think that growing up with cats had a big influence on my personal philosophy.
I had, and have, lots of interests, many of them frivolous, but they're mine and I like 'em, and will pursue them as long as I'm able. Just like a cat.
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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11-05-2016, 11:09 AM
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#32
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Austria
Posts: 111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogaigh
But I still live in the same 3/2 bungalow that I have lived in for the past 10 years, have the same friends, and life hasn't changed that much, except of course that I do not go into work.
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Maybe it is time for a change? use some of those tens of millions? build an amazing house? You may need to find a project!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogaigh
Retiring early has brought into focus the fact that life is essentially without meaning or ultimate purpose.
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You must have done something pretty well to retire when you have with so much money. So how about teaching others how you did what you do?
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11-05-2016, 11:15 AM
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#33
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2006
Location: west coast, hi there!
Posts: 8,809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
...
This will sound like a joke, but I honestly think that growing up with cats had a big influence on my personal philosophy.
I had, and have, lots of interests, many of them frivolous, but they're mine and I like 'em, and will pursue them as long as I'm able. Just like a cat.
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Cats and dogs can teach us a lot about what's important in life.
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11-05-2016, 11:22 AM
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#34
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bernalillo, NM
Posts: 2,717
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I've had some serious bouts of medically defined depression over my life. The OP should at least speak with a professional to get a third party view of what's going on. It could be an actual medical condition, instead of an existential crisis.
__________________
"We live the lives we lead because of the thoughts we think" ...Michael O’Neill
"We can cannot compel others to do our will" ....Norman Goldman
"There never is shortage of the gullible to accept the illogical"...Anonymous
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11-05-2016, 11:36 AM
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#35
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 284
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As someone who has not yet retired, but plans to do so some time within the next several years, I appreciate this thread.
Naturally, this forum is populated primarily by people who express happiness with their decision to ER and describe the many good things about ER, how they enjoy it, etc. And yet, I know there are also many people who are unhappy after they retire and either go back to work or just live with the unhappiness.
In making my decision to ER, it is helpful to hear from -- in addition to the many who are happy -- people who are not enjoying retirement and are not finding it fulfilling, and to understand their struggle. It is also helpful to read about those who initially found retirement challenging but managed to overcome the challenges. So thanks to all for the insights.
I hope people on this forum who find retirement challenging or have struggles that they did not anticipate after leaving work feel free to express those on this forum. There are many of us who can learn from your experiences, and at the same time you may receive useful advice from others, as some of the posts on this thread demonstrate.
To me, the best advice given to the OP has been (1) talk with a therapist; I don't know whether you have a clinical depression or not, but regardless it could be helpful to discuss your feelings with someone who has expertise in helping people think through their condition and learn how to improve the quality of their lives -- I am not talking here about psychoanalysis, but instead a focused, practical therapy that could help you improve your level of satisfaction with life; and (2) find a way to help others, which has been shown to improve the quality of life and satisfaction. I am quite sure you have a lot to offer.
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11-05-2016, 11:39 AM
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#36
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,654
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It's true. They don't concern themselves with existential worry. They only "worry" when they are in danger or lonely or in pain, and the rest of the time they seem to be content doing whatever Nature impels them to do.
The big difference, as I see it, is that people have lots more choices of what to do, when we are not in danger/lonely/in pain. When I have been in those bad situations, it has really brought home to me how grateful I would be to have a regular, ordinary life again.
Not trying to find a "lesson" in here for OP or tell him what to do, but I imagine he wouldn't have posted, if he didn't want to hear various points of view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsbcal
Cats and dogs can teach us a lot about what's important in life.
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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11-05-2016, 11:59 AM
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#37
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,899
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Most of us who have FIREd have done so primarily via a life of accomplishment from skilled work combined with frugality. Upon reaching FIRE, the need for both of those goes away. That's a major change in life. You need to either enjoy that changed life, or mimic the old. If the latter, find something to do, anything, that gives you a sense of accomplishment. Many suggestions appear in this thread.
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11-05-2016, 12:12 PM
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#38
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
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There have been many good suggestions so far. My two cents would be as other have suggested would be to rule out organic issues - get a check up, have a healthy diet, get enough sunshine / vitamin D, exercise for the endorphins, and ensure adequate sleep. Then try some tips from positive psychology like keeping a gratitude journal, meditate, adopt a rescue pet, volunteer, set goals, build a social network, use your money to help others and get out in nature regularly.
Here's a good staring point:
"We all want to be happy. But how, exactly, do you go about it? The answers in these TED Talks on happiness -- from psychologists, journalists and monks -- may surprise you."
https://www.ted.com/topics/happiness
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
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11-05-2016, 12:30 PM
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#39
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,368
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Down at the waterfront this evening, saw this in a gallery, seemed kinda apropos for the thread:
La angustia por alcanzar un futuro prometedor no nos permite disfrutar el presente
The quest for a promised future causes an agony that prevents us from enjoying our present
__________________
"Exit, pursued by a bear."
The Winter's Tale, William Shakespeare
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11-05-2016, 12:57 PM
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#40
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
For me, I decided when I was around 19 that although life has no "meaning," it is there to be lived as best you can according to your own lights and without harming other people. No use making anything more out of it than that. I did have a bit of religious education, but hadn't read any philosophers - that came later and did nothing to change my view, in fact it confirmed it.
This will sound like a joke, but I honestly think that growing up with cats had a big influence on my personal philosophy.
I had, and have, lots of interests, many of them frivolous, but they're mine and I like 'em, and will pursue them as long as I'm able. Just like a cat.
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I know that cat feeling, I like to watch the birds, nap and eat a bunch.
__________________
For me experiences are not good or bad, just different
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