First year of retirement in Germany -- Seems to be Working..

[Alan]

Do you by any chance know how the UK treats gains within an IRA or within a ROTH? Do they use the same treatment as the US or do they consider it regular capital gains taxable each year at whatever tax rate the UK has for capital gains?

Same treatment as the US in that while inside the “pension wrapper” no tax on gains or reinvested dividends but once distributions are taken the distributions are taxed as regular income.

The Roth is totally tax free including distributions. The UK has the ISA which can hold cash, stock funds, bond funds, individual stocks and bonds. Each person can put up to £20k per year after tax money and all growth plus all distributions are tax free (no age limit on when distributions can be taken). However because it is a savings tool and not a pension tool then the IRS does not recognize the tax free status and taxes interest and dividends as they arise and treat stock and bond funds in the ISA as PFIC’s.

ETA
The UK equivalent of a 401k is a SIPP and the IRS does treat that the same as a 401k or IRA since it is a retirement vehicle with age restrictions on withdrawals.

 

[george76]

Same treatment as the US in that while inside the “pension wrapper” no tax on gains or reinvested dividends but once distributions are taken the distributions are taxed as regular income.

The Roth is totally tax free including distributions. The UK has the ISA which can hold cash, stock funds, bond funds, individual stocks and bonds. Each person can put up to £20k per year after tax money and all growth plus all distributions are tax free (no age limit on when distributions can be taken). However because it is a savings tool and not a pension tool then the IRS does not recognize the tax free status and taxes interest and dividends as they arise and treat stock and bond funds in the ISA as PFIC’s.

Thanks Alan. Very helpful!

 

[Retch The Grate]

I don't have much of a safety net but so far things are working in Germany. If anybody has any advice to offer -- or questions about moving to Europe, feel free. I appreciate all the honesty on this site.

sounds exciting. My wife loves germany, and speaks german (though she's a bit out of practice these days), and given the relative prices of tiny houses in the bay are to literal castles in germany, I'd say there is a non-zero chance we end up moving there.

How hard do you think it would be to live there if one speaks no German (I basically speak English and a tiny amount of high school french that was barely enough to get around in France)? I've only visited Berlin, which was really cool, but fairly friendly to being a tourist. Culturally is it easy to make friends?

 

[Freedom56]

Am reading this forum with interest. Retired in 2017 at 55 after 28 years federal service. I'd done everything my career had to offer and I wasn't happy with the politics of the moment as well as where my agency was heading. Retirement was well-timed: I have two 94 year-old parents, both with serious health issues, living in rural US and I spent six months helping them get squared away while a sibling moved closer to help them. During that time I finished up a long and costly divorce from my wife of thirty years, ran through a lot of money, and decided to move abroad. My parents are squared away now. I visit when I can and there are other siblings who stepped up.

Things are going better now. I have moved with my new German partner to her homeland of Germany, where the cost of living is considerably less than in the U.S. I have a large house out in the country which I rent for €1300 a month (+another €100 in water and heat charges). I own a used car, have about $275,000 in the bank or in an IRA, and get a small pension of $2600 a month. (Half of my federal pension.) I have good health care, plan to start drawing social security when I can, and found that the red-tape to get a German residence permit was minimal. (It basically took a day at the government office. It's renewable annually. I don't have the right to work but don't want to do so.)

I am still adjusting with the challenge of going from a very high-paced, high-action job to my new rural life. I ride my bicycle a lot, swim at the outstandingly good local swimming pools (cost = €2.50 per entry) and eat and drink way better here in Germany than in the US. To my shock my grocery bill is probably less than a third of what it was in the U.S. I am increasingly of the opinion that it's as cheap here in Germany (my area of Germany, a lower cost area) as the more expensive areas of Mexico.

We travel a bit. (Just got back from a week in Portugal. The tickets to get there were €75 each roundtrip, and Portugal is cheap.) Also go to France and elsewhere; we travel based upon what's cheap at the moment, and usually use AirBnB which is fabulous.)

I don't have much of a safety net but so far things are working in Germany. If anybody has any advice to offer -- or questions about moving to Europe, feel free. I appreciate all the honesty on this site.

Congrats on your retirement... If you plan to stay in Europe, I would look at ways of hedging your US dollars. We have a home in Switzerland and my perspective on cost of living there has changed from a bargain in the early 90's to extremely expensive around 2008 (it was 1.62 USD to 1 Euro and 1.42 USD to 1 CHF) and to just expensive now. I agree with you and others that costs in other countries such as England and Germany are more reasonable now, especially if you stay away from the large cities. But that can change for you if you earn in USD and the dollar starts to fall again versus the Euro.

Do you speak German? The reason I ask is that over a 27+ year period I was immersed in three languages (French, Italian, and Swiss German). My in-laws don't speak English. To establish social contacts and converse with my wife's family and friends, I ended up learning those languages. Otherwise it becomes awkward especially at social events or even just having dinner with your in-laws.

I agree with you that air travel within Europe is inexpensive with airlines like Easyjet and others. There is no point in taking trains when a one hour hop on a plane can get you to many destination in Europe.

Good luck!

 

[Retirement_Rookie]

sounds exciting. My wife loves germany, and speaks german (though she's a bit out of practice these days), and given the relative prices of tiny houses in the bay are to literal castles in germany, I'd say there is a non-zero chance we end up moving there.

How hard do you think it would be to live there if one speaks no German (I basically speak English and a tiny amount of high school french that was barely enough to get around in France)? I've only visited Berlin, which was really cool, but fairly friendly to being a tourist. Culturally is it easy to make friends?

I am too early in to know about the "making friends" part of this, but I understand that this will likely be time-consuming here in Germany. I am told that people in this region join clubs around their hobbies and interests: there are biking clubs, tennis clubs, cooking clubs, etc. Social lives revolve around this and to a certain extent around churches, as every town has a Catholic and Lutheran Church.

The German Government authorized an "integration course" for me when I got my residence permit. I pay €199 a quarter and the government pays the rest; it goes on for just under a year. It's Four hours a day/four days a week of intensive German with other migrants and refugees. This is fascinating. I am in a class of fifteen people. One day we estimated that amongst us there are like twenty-five languages. We have Kurdish Turkish housewives, Syrians, Bulgarians, Moldavians, a Brazilian and a Filipina (both married to German men), Afghans, an Eritrean, two Spaniards, you get the picture.. (Most of them are multi-lingual which explains why we have more languages than students.) It's slow going but I am learning German, a lot harder for me at 55+ than it was when I learned other languages at a younger age. I think I will emerge from this course with passable German; the class is excellent in any event, very German, very well-organized and thought-out. Often more interesting than the class are the life stories of the other participants, and one learns German just to be able to understand one's classmates!

 

[Retirement_Rookie]

Congrats on your retirement... If you plan to stay in Europe, I would look at ways of hedging your US dollars. We have a home in Switzerland and my perspective on cost of living there has changed from a bargain in the early 90's to extremely expensive around 2008 (it was 1.62 USD to 1 Euro and 1.42 USD to 1 CHF) and to just expensive now. I agree with you and others that costs in other countries such as England and Germany are more reasonable now, especially if you stay away from the large cities. But that can change for you if you earn in USD and the dollar starts to fall again versus the Euro.

Do you speak German? The reason I ask is that over a 27+ year period I was immersed in three languages (French, Italian, and Swiss German). My in-laws don't speak English. To establish social contacts and converse with my wife's family and friends, I ended up learning those languages. Otherwise it becomes awkward especially at social events or even just having dinner with your in-laws.

I agree with you that air travel within Europe is inexpensive with airlines like Easyjet and others. There is no point in taking trains when a one hour hop on a plane can get you to many destination in Europe.

Good luck!

Agree I need to hedge the dollar risk. I too have lived in Switzerland (the French-speaking part) for four years back in the nineties. I have experienced the ravages of dollar depreciation and don't want to go through that again.

 

[Retirement_Rookie]

sounds exciting. My wife loves germany, and speaks german (though she's a bit out of practice these days), and given the relative prices of tiny houses in the bay are to literal castles in germany, I'd say there is a non-zero chance we end up moving there.

How hard do you think it would be to live there if one speaks no German (I basically speak English and a tiny amount of high school french that was barely enough to get around in France)? I've only visited Berlin, which was really cool, but fairly friendly to being a tourist. Culturally is it easy to make friends?

By the way, on German Netflix there's a British TV show from 2013 called "Escape to the Continent" which tries to match British retirees to various European retirement destinations: Various areas of Spain, Portugal, and France as well as Germany, Austria, Italy and elsewhere. Each episode takes a retiring couple to the area they want to live , in the European country, and tries to show them houses and how to buy one. It's interesting for an evening of binge watching if you're unfamiliar with some of the areas.

 

[Retirement_Rookie]

This link might help. BTW, the SOFA agreement (along with numerous subsequent addenda) btwn US/Germany is the controlling document for these sorts of things, and there are differences btwn the SOFAs the US has with “Allied” countries and countries on the other side during WWII.

Looking forward to hearing how you settle in.

https://www.howtogermany.com/files/German_Compliance_Matrix.pdf

Interesting I have seen the SOFA but given that I am not military I didn't think it applied to me. I was looking at the tax treaty.

 

[Onward]

If cost of living in Germany is cheaper than in a typical place in the U.S., then things have really, really changed since I lived in Frankfurt, Stuttgart, and Munich in the mid-90s.

My impression then was Germany (real estate, food, just about everything) was more expensive than anywhere in the U.S., except maybe New York.

I was earning dollars and spending Deutschmarks. (It was pre-Euro.)

I'm surprised to hear Germany is cheap in any sense now.

 

[Cricky]

If cost of living in Germany is cheaper than in a typical place in the U.S., then things have really, really changed since I lived in Frankfurt, Stuttgart, and Munich in the mid-90s.

My impression then was Germany (real estate, food, just about everything) was more expensive than anywhere in the U.S., except maybe New York.

I was earning dollars and spending Deutschmarks. (It was pre-Euro.)

I'm surprised to hear Germany is cheap in any sense now.

I was curious about this too, and was surprised to see that numbeo thinks the cost of living for renters is essentially the same in Munich and Atlanta (where I live), and Stuttgart and even Frankfurt are considerably lower than Atlanta. Of course you can argue about numbeo’s methodology, but at least it looks like data.

 

[Huston55]

I was curious about this too, and was surprised to see that numbeo thinks the cost of living for renters is essentially the same in Munich and Atlanta (where I live), and Stuttgart and even Frankfurt are considerably lower than Atlanta. Of course you can argue about numbeo’s methodology, but at least it looks like data.

+2

Lived on Germany in the 80s & early 90s and found things more expensive than the US when comparing median cost locations in each country.

 

[DFDubb]

I lived in Spain 2011-2013 during the height of the recession and rapid devaluation of the Euro. One thing to remember is that most EU countries have still not recovered from the economic crisis, much less had a strong 10 year bull market run. There were countries on the brink of financial collapse. While it may be cheaper to live in EU countries right now, this is not true historically speaking and who knows what the future will hold.

We will be FIREd by 50 (~10 years) and I would love to move somewhere in the EU. Would need access to medical though and that is the very tricky part.

 

[Retirement_Rookie]

If cost of living in Germany is cheaper than in a typical place in the U.S., then things have really, really changed since I lived in Frankfurt, Stuttgart, and Munich in the mid-90s.

My impression then was Germany (real estate, food, just about everything) was more expensive than anywhere in the U.S., except maybe New York.

I was earning dollars and spending Deutschmarks. (It was pre-Euro.)

I'm surprised to hear Germany is cheap in any sense now.

The low cost of living has been my biggest surprise. The last couple of years I was working I lived in a cheapish area of Baltimore. But my cost of living has tumbled since I live in Germany (with the exception of for gasoline!!). I have some advantages:

-- I live in a rural area (I am literally writing these words looking out at wheat fields) albeit close to a well-preserved medieval city that is reasonably sophisticated. (a few bookstores, lots of restaurants, one Michelin restaurant, a decent hospital). I take the fast train to Frankfurt airport when I travel. That's fast, but it's expensive (€19 each way); it takes me 14 minutes from town to the airport, and it take me fifteen minutes to drive to the train station and park. Because my area is served by a well, my water is cheap (usually in Germany it is expensive) and I have natural gas, also inexpensive for heating. (But this can be replicated.) My house is 2,000 to 3,000 square feet, costs €1300 a month. I have a pond in the backyard and a quite large lot. This would cost me way more in America. Because I rent I have no out-of-pocket costs. If I owned I think the equation would be different.

-- Big savings in eating out (a good meal for two with wine can easily be had for under €50), grocery-shopping, (literally a fraction of what I spent in the US), beer and wine (and, frankly, much better quality). Clothing for me, and I am not at all brand conscious, is about the same.

-- I travel to Berlin (a lot more expensive), Hamburg and Frankfurt, (ditto), and Munich (to my mind the most expensive place in Germany). But these are splurges. When we travel we either get good off-season rates on booking.com or we use airbnb.

-- I have netflix for movies, buy books from Amazon UK which delivers here in Germany and although it's marginally more expensive than in Baltimore, not that much more.

There is no way I could live my current lifestyle in New England or Maryland on my tight budget here. I also remember Germany from the pre-Euro days and I struggle to decide if my impressions were warped because I was in Berlin and Munich back then (more expensive places) or whether it's because the Euro has made Germany cheaper. (Oh, and German reunification, which I think brought prices down also.) But when my partner convinced me to move here I was very skeptical that we were going to be able to do this. I am changing my mind.

I was considering retiring to San Miguel de Allende (Mexico) before we moved here. Although if you're buying in SMA it's likely cheaper, I think the combination of amazing German infrastructure, everything first-world quality, good hospitals, and the ability to drive to so many fantastic places is tough to beat. We drive to Paris for the weekend, to Strassbourg, Berlin, etc.. These trips can be expensive but nonetheless they're a lot cheaper than to travel from the US.

 

[Freedom56]

The low cost of living has been my biggest surprise. The last couple of years I was working I lived in a cheapish area of Baltimore. But my cost of living has tumbled since I live in Germany (with the exception of for gasoline!!). I have some advantages:

-- I live in a rural area (I am literally writing these words looking out at wheat fields) albeit close to a well-preserved medieval city that is reasonably sophisticated. (a few bookstores, lots of restaurants, one Michelin restaurant, a decent hospital). I take the fast train to Frankfurt airport when I travel. That's fast, but it's expensive (€19 each way); it takes me 14 minutes from town to the airport, and it take me fifteen minutes to drive to the train station and park. Because my area is served by a well, my water is cheap (usually in Germany it is expensive) and I have natural gas, also inexpensive for heating. (But this can be replicated.) My house is 2,000 to 3,000 square feet, costs €1300 a month. I have a pond in the backyard and a quite large lot. This would cost me way more in America. Because I rent I have no out-of-pocket costs. If I owned I think the equation would be different.

-- Big savings in eating out (a good meal for two with wine can easily be had for under €50), grocery-shopping, (literally a fraction of what I spent in the US), beer and wine (and, frankly, much better quality). Clothing for me, and I am not at all brand conscious, is about the same.

-- I travel to Berlin (a lot more expensive), Hamburg and Frankfurt, (ditto), and Munich (to my mind the most expensive place in Germany). But these are splurges. When we travel we either get good off-season rates on booking.com or we use airbnb.

-- I have netflix for movies, buy books from Amazon UK which delivers here in Germany and although it's marginally more expensive than in Baltimore, not that much more.

There is no way I could live my current lifestyle in New England or Maryland on my tight budget here. I also remember Germany from the pre-Euro days and I struggle to decide if my impressions were warped because I was in Berlin and Munich back then (more expensive places) or whether it's because the Euro has made Germany cheaper. (Oh, and German reunification, which I think brought prices down also.) But when my partner convinced me to move here I was very skeptical that we were going to be able to do this. I am changing my mind.

I was considering retiring to San Miguel de Allende (Mexico) before we moved here. Although if you're buying in SMA it's likely cheaper, I think the combination of amazing German infrastructure, everything first-world quality, good hospitals, and the ability to drive to so many fantastic places is tough to beat. We drive to Paris for the weekend, to Strassbourg, Berlin, etc.. These trips can be expensive but nonetheless they're a lot cheaper than to travel from the US.

I can see where you are coming from with the cost of living comparison in rural areas in Germany versus urban areas in the U.S.. But a lot of (and I was astonished at how many) Germans, Swiss, Norwegians, and French have a tough time living on their pensions (I guess they were in the larger cities) and move to Thailand and live like kings.

 

[Retirement_Rookie]

I can see where you are coming from with the cost of living comparison in rural areas in Germany versus urban areas in the U.S.. But a lot of (and I was astonished at how many) Germans, Swiss, Norwegians, and French have a tough time living on their pensions (I guess they were in the larger cities) and move to Thailand and live like kings.

Freedom 56 that's an interesting insight. (rural vs. urban.) And I think I realize what's going on. In the US I had a second home in rural New England and have many relatives and friends up the New England coast and inland. (New Hampshire, Ri, and Maine.) The difference between my rural life here and my and my family's rural lives in New England is that in New England rural means RURAL -- my family home in New England was a two and a half hour drive from the nearest decent hospital. And prices were still higher, but we didn't have nearly the options I have in Germany. We were down to Walmarts and very basic supermarkets in rural New England, whereas in Germany rural areas are both close to sophisticated urban areas (I can get to a very nice city just about an hour in every direction, here in Germany) and the rural areas themselves (I guess because of their proximity to urban areas) are more sophisticated. I'd also looked at Paso Robles in California for retirement. But when you live in Paso Robles you're in the middle of nowhere. This is the difference.

I realize it's not for anybody. SMA (in Mexico) Paso Robles (in California) have way better weather than where I am. New England has the coast (but horrible weather and high prices). I think one reason Europeans may have a tough time living well retiring to their own big cities is because their salaries generally are lower than white collar Americans' salaries -- which may make their pensions lower. Not sure. Just a thought.

One other plus in favor of Mexico: In Mexico it's easy and cheap to have domestic help. Here in Germany that's just not possible unless you have a lot of money.

 

[Freedom56]

Freedom 56 that's an interesting insight. (rural vs. urban.) And I think I realize what's going on. In the US I had a second home in rural New England and have many relatives and friends up the New England coast and inland. (New Hampshire, Ri, and Maine.) The difference between my rural life here and my and my family's rural lives in New England is that in New England rural means RURAL -- my family home in New England was a two and a half hour drive from the nearest decent hospital. And prices were still higher, but we didn't have nearly the options I have in Germany. We were down to Walmarts and very basic supermarkets in rural New England, whereas in Germany rural areas are both close to sophisticated urban areas (I can get to a very nice city just about an hour in every direction, here in Germany) and the rural areas themselves (I guess because of their proximity to urban areas) are more sophisticated. I'd also looked at Paso Robles in California for retirement. But when you live in Paso Robles you're in the middle of nowhere. This is the difference.

I realize it's not for anybody. SMA (in Mexico) Paso Robles (in California) have way better weather than where I am. New England has the coast (but horrible weather and high prices). I think one reason Europeans may have a tough time living well retiring to their own big cities is because their salaries generally are lower than white collar Americans' salaries -- which may make their pensions lower. Not sure. Just a thought.

One other plus in favor of Mexico: In Mexico it's easy and cheap to have domestic help. Here in Germany that's just not possible unless you have a lot of money.

You are correct on the rural area comparison. They can film episodes The Walking Dead in some of these rural areas without making too many changes and find extras for the cast too. Where you live, you can cover a lot of interesting places with some easy driving by car (Amsterdam, Munich, Baden Baden, Brussels, Hamburg, etc...). The roads in Germany are amazing. I would make a good effort to learn the language. Have your partner speak to you in German as much as possible. Within a year you should be pretty fluent. Within 2-3 years you will be able to identify the different German dialects and accents (north vs South). I had to learn 3 more languages just to be able to communicate with my wife's family and friends. After 27+ years it's second nature. I have a good friend from school who moved to Singapore. He speaks fluent Mandarin Chinese and Malay. You should see the look on people's faces when they see and hear him speak Chinese when he is in Los Angeles.

We spend 2 -3 months every year in Switzerland since my retirement 3 years ago. Our home is in Lausanne. There a lot of interesting places to visit just by car within Switzerland, France, and Northern Italy. Many places most tourist never visit. It's also a short and cheap 60-90 minute hop using Easyjet to places like Venice, Nice, Barcelona, Paris, and London. You can't really do that here. However, Switzerland is expensive and you don't have the food choices that you can find in France, Germany, and Italy in the grocery stores. But salaries are higher in Switzerland and taxes are low. But the private health insurance system is expensive also.

Our home base is Southern California. I really can't complain. There are a lot of nice places to visit just by car. LAX is a nice hub to fly to places all over the world.

 

[omni550]

I was curious about this too, and was surprised to see that numbeo thinks the cost of living for renters is essentially the same in Munich and Atlanta (where I live), and Stuttgart and even Frankfurt are considerably lower than Atlanta. Of course you can argue about numbeo’s methodology, but at least it looks like data.

My German cousin says that Munich is the most expensive place in Germany for housing expense at the moment.

Her granddaughter (whose parents live in Cologne) is attending a dental college there. Trying to find housing is both difficult and pricey.

omni

 

[ncbill]

Am reading this forum with interest. Retired in 2017 at 55 after 28 years federal service...

Things are going better now. I have moved with my new German partner to her homeland of Germany, where the cost of living is considerably less than in the U.S. I have a large house out in the country which I rent for €1300 a month (+another €100 in water and heat charges). I own a used car, have about $275,000 in the bank or in an IRA, and get a small pension of $2600 a month. (Half of my federal pension.) I have good health care, plan to start drawing social security when I can, and found that the red-tape to get a German residence permit was minimal. (It basically took a day at the government office. It's renewable annually. I don't have the right to work but don't want to do so.)

Through your partner, reciprocal agreement based on FEHB, or do you pay out of pocket for insurance? (maybe cheaper because you have resident status as a pensioner vs. resident on a work visa?)

 

[Huston55]

I can see where you are coming from with the cost of living comparison in rural areas in Germany versus urban areas in the U.S.. But a lot of (and I was astonished at how many) Germans, Swiss, Norwegians, and French have a tough time living on their pensions (I guess they were in the larger cities) and move to Thailand and live like kings.

Well, that’s it right? And even when you compare rural to rural, Germany is so much smaller & more densely populated that it’s not really like to like. Personally, I prefer the more densely populated regions with direct access to more services and sophistication.

This is readily apparent when flying into Germany and looking out the airplane window. I still remember how amazed I was by the view the first time I landed in Frankfurt years ago; almost no such thing as ‘wide open spaces’ in Germany.

 

[Mexpet]

Interesting and Lots to to think about

Great Posts.
German here who has lived in Mexico for almost 20 years, now living in the US.
I agree with most of your comments:
-Weather way better here in the US, food and infrastructure much better in Germany.
- People and daily Living: probably a mixed bag. When I came to the US as a student 30 plus years ago, the US was THE BEST. Immigration officers used to welcome me as a poor student, now whenever I come here they look at me as if I were to rob them. (I am exaggerating, but not too much).
- Germans love Americans , so you can probably make friends relatively easily, just try to speak some German.
- Club life (Vereinsleben) ) is probably a must.
- Getting good medical care is very difficult in the US. Germany and Mexico much easier, maybe not as advanced at the highest level but much better on average. when I speak to people here, this is the most mis-understood. Americans believe best health care is in the US. That is NOT true, for middlke class health care is much better and much more affordable in Mexico or in germany. I prefer Mexican doctors.
- I am surprised by your comments about German bureaucracy. I remember German bureaucracy as a nightmare. Good to hear it has gotten better, probably due to you being American, or maybe you were just lucky.
- Our plan is to split life between Munich in summer, and Mexico (not sure if Puerto Vallarta, San Miguel or something else) in Winter. I can only take so much bad weather. Service is also so much better in Mex.
- Pre Chrismas is an exception in Germany: Xmas markets (Gluehwein , sausages, etc..) are amazing and carry you through December. Cold
- Agree with you on biking. Best way to get around in Germany.
- Germans are environmentally much more conscious. Food, waste, etc.. Americans are years behind but are catching up fast.
- Germans are NOT entrepreneurs, think about starting a business. As an American you have an edge.
- Take advantage of the travel, outside high season.
- some of my kids are studying here in the US. Colleges (private education) are much better than in Germany, but ridiculously expensive.
- You still cannot get a decent steak in Germany. Love my medium-rare USD prime rib eye here . One thing I miss most is getting fresh bread every morning.

 

[FIREd]

I spend part of the year in France, just over the border from downtown Geneva, Switzerland (my condo is less than 5 miles away from the famous Jet d'Eau). I maintain a primary residence in a low-tax, LCOL US state and, as a whole, everyday expenses are not that different between the two locations (including food, insurance, and housing). In our case, it really comes down mostly to taxes and healthcare. Low taxes and high healthcare costs in the US, high taxes and low healthcare costs in France. Each location also has more subjective pros and cons (like quality of life) which may help to tilt the balance one way or the other in the future.

 

[Red Badger]

Great Posts.
German here who has lived in Mexico for almost 20 years, now living in the US.
I agree with most of your comments:
-Weather way better here in the US, food and infrastructure much better in Germany.
- People and daily Living: probably a mixed bag. When I came to the US as a student 30 plus years ago, the US was THE BEST. Immigration officers used to welcome me as a poor student, now whenever I come here they look at me as if I were to rob them. (I am exaggerating, but not too much).
- Germans love Americans , so you can probably make friends relatively easily, just try to speak some German.
- Club life (Vereinsleben) ) is probably a must.
- Getting good medical care is very difficult in the US. Germany and Mexico much easier, maybe not as advanced at the highest level but much better on average. when I speak to people here, this is the most mis-understood. Americans believe best health care is in the US. That is NOT true, for middlke class health care is much better and much more affordable in Mexico or in germany. I prefer Mexican doctors.
- I am surprised by your comments about German bureaucracy. I remember German bureaucracy as a nightmare. Good to hear it has gotten better, probably due to you being American, or maybe you were just lucky.
- Our plan is to split life between Munich in summer, and Mexico (not sure if Puerto Vallarta, San Miguel or something else) in Winter. I can only take so much bad weather. Service is also so much better in Mex.
- Pre Chrismas is an exception in Germany: Xmas markets (Gluehwein , sausages, etc..) are amazing and carry you through December. Cold
- Agree with you on biking. Best way to get around in Germany.
- Germans are environmentally much more conscious. Food, waste, etc.. Americans are years behind but are catching up fast.
- Germans are NOT entrepreneurs, think about starting a business. As an American you have an edge.
- Take advantage of the travel, outside high season.
- some of my kids are studying here in the US. Colleges (private education) are much better than in Germany, but ridiculously expensive.
- You still cannot get a decent steak in Germany. Love my medium-rare USD prime rib eye here . One thing I miss most is getting fresh bread every morning.

Maybe. I was stationed in northern Germany (Bremerhaven area) in the 80's. On a weekend rip to Hamburg, we stumbled across an Argentine steak house. For someone who had gone 2 years without a good steak, it was life changing.

 

[REWahoo]

On a weekend rip...

I did some of those when I was in the service, too.

 

[Retirement_Rookie]

My German cousin says that Munich is the most expensive place in Germany for housing expense at the moment.

Her granddaughter (whose parents live in Cologne) is attending a dental college there. Trying to find housing is both difficult and pricey.

omni

Yes, Munich is unaffordable for me to live in. I see what you mean on Cologne. One bedroom apartments there rent for around $600, high for much of Germany. According to a student website there: "Rent in Cologne similar to other German big cities runs fairly high and varies greatly depending on the area. An average rent for an unfurnished one bedroom apartment (about 40 m2) is around 500 Euros per month, and for a room in a shared apartment (“Wohngemeinschaft” or "WG") around 350 Euros.Jun 9, 2015"

 

[Retirement_Rookie]

Thanks for all the great advice and comments from people. Here is what I put together out of all of this:

-- We all know that choice of where we live is just that: a choice. There are lots of places with better weather than Germany. I am in Germany because it fits my needs even if the weather isn't so great.

-- Some people have noted that they do similar things based in Germany/Mexico or Switzerland/USA. (My own experience with Switzerland was that it was a lot more expensive than my part of Germany, but I know the Alps are great.)

-- I need to hedge my dollar/euro risk somehow to protect myself from fluctuations in the dollar/euro rate. I need to work on this.

-- German urban areas can be expensive, so my strategy of a rural area is giving me the best bang for the buck, and given that rural and urban areas are so close, there's not much of a negative lifestyle impact living in rural Germany (because it's so close to urban Germany). German rural areas are better served with infrastructure, shops, and services than many U.S. rural areas.

-- Because of this strategy, Germany is a pretty inexpensive place for me to live.

-- In my area, food and drink are generally better quality than at comparable price points in the US (and I'd argue dramatically better at any price point in the beer and wine category!) HOWEVER, don't look for good steak in Germany.

-- Medical care is on an average basis better in Germany. (I've got my own health insurance so haven't needed to go on the German public system, but there might be ways to do this.)

-- German bureaucracy, in terms of getting a permit to live in Germany, is not nearly as horrifying as one would imagine.

-- I still need to get to know more Germans.

I'd add, finally, two things: the first is that I've been able to find quite good workarounds for consumer good purchases in Germany. While I was still active duty I used the PX system at U.S. bases in Germany. I have to say to my surprise that now I no longer have base access, there's absolutely nothing I can't get at comparable prices locally -- it's all here nowadays. The second is that one of my grown children is visiting for a week, this week. She wanted to visit Luxembourg for the day. We hoped on a train and took the 167 kilometer trip along the Moselle for €35 for both of us round trip. The train left from the center of town here and deposited us in the heart of Luxembourg. It was a fantastic train, spotless, filled with bikers and hikers most of whom got out along the way. We had great fun wandering Luxembourg all day, seeing the fairytale sights, drinking beer, going out to lunch there -- expensive €100 for the two of us, but copious, with a bottle of wine and other drinks, seafood and meat. Nothing like this in New England. Quebec or Montreal are a lot further away; nothing in America comes close to Luxembourg's fairy tale scenery.

Thanks for all the great advice. If anybody is interested in exploring doing something similar, feel free to reach out if you'd like to discuss it.