Hello from Bay Area CA

[Irishgirlyc58]

But, Fairfield isn’t comparable to Davis. Davis has all of the attributes (mostly good, some bad) of a college town and is just a Yolo Causeway outside of Sacramento. Fairfield has an Air Force base and is still at least an hour from San Francisco with no traffic. And another 30 miles or more from Sacramento than Davis.

Your definition of no traffic must be much different than mine.

 

[Alex The Great]

We had a Blue Shield Bronze plan for $2 a month for premiums when we kept our income under the pre-pandemic ACA cliff. Our local hospital and doctor network associated with it were all in network.

Hmm, this is interesting. Because the cheapest I can get on coveredca.com for zip code 95118 and low income $20K for one person 56 years old is $152 per month (Blue California Bronze 60 HDHP Plan). It looks like I live in wrong zip code.

 

[FIREd_2015]

Hmm, this is interesting. Because the cheapest I can get on coveredca.com for zip code 95118 and low income $20K for one person 56 years old is $152 per month (Blue California Bronze 60 HDHP Plan). It looks like I live in wrong zip code.

You piqued my curiosity. I went to the coveredca.com website and entered $20k with different Bay Area zip codes and was surprised to see the Blue Shield Bronze 60 PPO price was either $0 or $199. Didn't realize pricing varied that much. An interesting zip code is 94303 (East Palo Alto). This zip code covers both Santa Clara and San Mateo Counties. The price for San Mateo County was $0 but $199 for Santa Clara County. The price using a random zip code in Alameda County was also $0.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

But, Fairfield isn’t comparable to Davis. Davis has all of the attributes (mostly good, some bad) of a college town and is just a Yolo Causeway outside of Sacramento. Fairfield has an Air Force base and is still at least an hour from San Francisco with no traffic. And another 30 miles or more from Sacramento than Davis.

I believe the two of us who commented on Davis said the prices were higher because it is a college town.

If I had to pick between the two on where to live in retirement, personally I'd probably move to Fairfield. It is less expensive, a half hour drive from Napa, a half hour from the nearest Bart station and only an hour's drive into the city in non rush hour traffic.

 

[luckydude]

The main expense of living in the Bay Area, and many other HCOL areas, is really all about housing. If you have a paid for home, or a strategic, arbitrage mortgage with a low fixed rate loan, I don't see it costing much more to live here than other locations.

+1

We live in SoCal and our experience is the same. With a paid off house, a retiree in SoCal should be able to live very well on a middle-class income with a standard of living very similar to so-called MCOL areas.

In OP's case, his $4 million stash is more than enough for a great retirement in SF.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I was a California girl for 40 years. We moved in the late 90s partly because my son wasn’t learning anything in school and he was miserable, and I was miserable and had no life outside of work, not because of COL.

All the folks who talk about better places to live in California have forgotten about Prop 13. Real estate tax on a house you bought 20 years ago are thousands lower than your next door neighbor who bought last year.

So suggesting moving to a lower COL in California ironically substantially raises the COL. Davis and Fairfield are much less pleasant than any area around the bay. Hot, dry, and not beautiful. DH and I grew up in the east bay, and we lived in SF, the peninsula, and Sunnyvale. My cousins who live there frequently “play tourist” visiting Angel Island, visiting the redwoods, spending a couple of days in wine country. It can be a great place to retire.

Gas prices are high, but the cost of heating and air conditioning in the Bay Area can be generally low because of the amazing agreeable climate most of the year. It can be 70 degrees in February and 70 degrees in July. Income tax can be high, but much lower in retirement, because income is lower.

$4M should be plenty for retirement.

 

[Alex The Great]

You piqued my curiosity. I went to the coveredca.com website and entered $20k with different Bay Area zip codes and was surprised to see the Blue Shield Bronze 60 PPO price was either $0 or $199. Didn't realize pricing varied that much. An interesting zip code is 94303 (East Palo Alto). This zip code covers both Santa Clara and San Mateo Counties. The price for San Mateo County was $0 but $199 for Santa Clara County. The price using a random zip code in Alameda County was also $0.

Thanks this is an interesting observation. I'm not sure why it can happen this way. May be because they have more people from one zip code compared to other signed up for particular plan?

 

[FIREd_2015]

Thanks this is an interesting observation. I'm not sure why it can happen this way. May be because they have more people from one zip code compared to other signed up for particular plan?

I tried other random zip codes in both Santa Clara and San Mateo Counties and the price for the Blue Shield Bronze PPO 60 was $199 for all the Santa Clara County zip codes I entered and $0 for all the San Mateo County zip codes. I live in San Mateo County and for some reason I get a break on health insurance. I guess it makes up for the higher cost of everything else in San Mateo County (housing, sales tax, gas, etc.)

 

[daylatedollarshort]

All the folks who talk about better places to live in California have forgotten about Prop 13. Real estate tax on a house you bought 20 years ago are thousands lower than your next door neighbor who bought last year.

So suggesting moving to a lower COL in California ironically substantially raises the COL. Davis and Fairfield are much less pleasant than any area around the bay.

55+ can take their low property taxes with them when they move to any county now (previously only certain counties allowed that), even if they move to a more expensive home, though then they would get an upward assessment on the difference.

Our older neighbors pay .05% property tax rates!

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Health insurance companies have done this for years. Different rates for different counties. Usually by region. For some reason my county that is 2 hours away from S.F. and certainly not anything like the Bay Area is in the Bay Area rate region for health insurance.
The county just south of me and closer to the Bay Area is in the Sacramento region with cheaper rates.
It’s weird and I’ve never understood why it’s allowed to be this way.

 

[Vacation4us]

We lived in East Bay for several years before retirement. The only nice thing I have to say about it was it was a great place to go through menopause, due to the mild climate.

I call our time there doing penance. Yuck, Yuck, Yuck. The crime, the homelessness and the people who blindly bellow “ fake news narratives “ while they live in s***.

To each there own.

I think 4 mil is plenty.

PS I worked at Sutter, Eden MC to be exact. From what I saw it’s a good hospital with good providers.

The 880 is a killer and I mean that literally. DH used to tell me of the almost daily deaths on that freeway .The way people drive up there is nuts. I have only seen gutter drivers in East Bay and Thailand go figure.

 

[bmcgonig]

We lived in East Bay for several years before retirement. The only nice thing I have to say about it was it was a great place to go through menopause, due to the mild climate.

I call our time there doing penance. Yuck, Yuck, Yuck. The crime, the homelessness and the people who blindly bellow “ fake news narratives “ while they live in s***.

To each there own.

I think 4 mil is plenty.

PS I worked at Sutter, Eden MC to be exact. From what I saw it’s a good hospital with good providers.

The 880 is a killer and I mean that literally. DH used to tell me of the almost daily deaths on that freeway .The way people drive up there is nuts. I have only seen gutter drivers in East Bay and Thailand go figure.

The East Bay is huge. Might be 3-4million people depending on how you define it. Lots of lovely places there (Eg Lafayette) and lots of not so lovely places (eg East Oakland), and lots of places in between.

Bay Area is definitely a great place to live, and as said before its high cost is all about housing ( ok..and gas prices ). If you move here when you’re young you’ll probably get a higher salary than elsewhere so that you can afford to buy a house. At least that was the case before the latest Work From Home effort. Then when you’re at retirement age you will have a high priced house to sell and move elsewhere, if you choose. In the meantime you have some of the best weather in the US.

 

[Major Tom]

The East Bay is huge. Might be 3-4million people depending on how you define it. Lots of lovely places there (Eg Lafayette) and lots of not so lovely places (eg East Oakland), and lots of places in between.

Bay Area is definitely a great place to live, and as said before its high cost is all about housing ( ok..and gas prices ). If you move here when you’re young you’ll probably get a higher salary than elsewhere so that you can afford to buy a house. At least that was the case before the latest Work From Home effort. Then when you’re at retirement age you will have a high priced house to sell and move elsewhere, if you choose. In the meantime you have some of the best weather in the US.

Large metro areas are not for everyone, and I'm completely fine with that. Big cities have always been more crowded and dirtier than small towns and communities. In their defense though, they seem to have been a lot dirtier and more dangerous in the past than they are now. The thing about large cities, is that that they have more of everything. The key to living successfully in them, in my opinion, is finding your niche - your neighborhoods, the places you like to go, and the crowd you like to hang with. Any city can be a miserable place if you're not able to do this. Also, of course, if you just happen to much prefer small towns, you're never going to like living in a big city, no matter what you do. I like the wide variety of people, and things to do in big cities. Even though I only occasionally take advantage of all the good stuff, I like having it going on around me. On a whim, last night I bought a ticket to see Roger Waters* in SF the week after next. A quick hop on BART and I'll be there. I couldn't do that in Panguitch, Utah!

*I'd rather see him with David Gilmour and Nick Mason, but that's not going to happen.

 

[oiseux]

55+ can take their low property taxes with them when they move to any county now (previously only certain counties allowed that), even if they move to a more expensive home, though then they would get an upward assessment on the difference.

Our older neighbors pay .05% property tax rates!

(removing incorrect reference to transfer value)

My cousins live in the heart of the South Bay and they have really adapted around the traffic (which can be horrible throughout the area, almost 24/7, but say if you live in SF itself, you really don't notice the concept - at least from my experience). They do fine on a much reduced income level as their homes are paid off. (Their kids have moved out and are located in the greater Sacramento area, where they can buy a house)

I think Davis is mostly elevated by UC Davis, but also their local schools are quite strong as well. Some people like a college town feel and the surrounding support services in town.

As an aside, rates are higher for the more rural areas because costs of service delivery is higher in less populated areas. (Spouse works in health care administration)

BTW, congrats to the OP from a fellow NorCaler (in OMY)

 

[Huston55]

Hello Folks,

I would like to share my early retirement story and get your comments and feedback on our plan.

We took early retirement this year.

We are in our early fifties. We were both employed in the tech industry in the Bay area, California.

We have been fortunate to have good retirement plans from our employers, which currently stand at 1.5M+ combined. Most of it is in traditional 401k, remaining in Roth. We also have a 2.5M+ in taxable accounts (brokerages, bank/CD/savings bonds).

We have 2 mortgages, one for our current home and the other for a rental property. The rental is almost net cash flow neutral (rental income almost equals rental expenses). Recently we refinanced both mortgages for 30 years.

We have some dividend income that we no longer reinvest. We also have a bank savings/CD and I bonds portfolio. These should cover expenses for the next 4 years, then we will pull some LT capital gains from stocks. During the first 5-8 retirement years we plan to do some Roth conversions while minimizing the tax impact. We do not plan to touch Roth accounts for as long as possible.

For medical insurance, we signed up for COBRA. Insurance under ACA is an option after COBRA expires. At age 55, one of our employer's Retirement Health Insurance Plans becomes available as bridge insurance until we become eligible for Medicare at 65. We are looking into Long Term Care Insurance, not sure if it is worth it.

We hope to live comfortably in the Bay area for the foreseeable future.

Congrats! You've won the game! Well, mostly. Since you're retiring into what could be a protracted bad 'sequence of returns' period, I'd recommend reading/rereading Jim Otar's "Unveiling the Retirement Myth" and be sure you're ready for bad times if they happen.

My 2 cents as another SF Bay resident who's lived in the East Bay, The City, the South Bay & now in Marin:

-Be sure where you live in the SF Bay Area is where you want to stay for the next 30+ yrs. Moving to another Cali location later will be financially painful; either a little or a lot.

-Nice job of building a solid Health Care bridge to get you to Medicare!

-Before you go merrily down the 'Roth Conversion' path, use some tools to confirm what your best "decumulation" strategy is. The link below is to a great discussion started by @Midpack on the "Income Strategy" tool, which will help you determine what's optimum for your situation. I've used this tool, and it caused me to alter my decumulation approach.

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/retirement-tax-planning-income-optimization-99854.html

-Do not buy LTC insurance. It's typically not a good financial move and, it's not really "insurance" per se but, a return of your premium up to a prescribed 'cap'. If you're worried about LTC, consider a "Life Care" contract at a CCRC; there are lots of good ones in Cali. There's some good info here:

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f47/ccrc-reference-material-faqs-86124.html

Best of luck in your Early Retirement!

 

[Vacation4us]

The East Bay is huge. Might be 3-4million people depending on how you define it. Lots of lovely places there (Eg Lafayette) and lots of not so lovely places (eg East Oakland), and lots of places in between.

Bay Area is definitely a great place to live, and as said before its high cost is all about housing ( ok..and gas prices ). If you move here when you’re young you’ll probably get a higher salary than elsewhere so that you can afford to buy a house. At least that was the case before the latest Work From Home effort. Then when you’re at retirement age you will have a high priced house to sell and move elsewhere, if you choose. In the meantime you have some of the best weather in the US.

Fully admit I never thought I would make as much as I did as a Bay Area nurse. Mind blowing $106/ hour.

Yes the area you live in matters. Oakland,Hayward, Castro Valley,San Leandro et el don’t plan on feeling safe.
Dublin, Pleasanton, and Livermore definitely nicer but from what I experienced not for long. Crime and homelessness are acceptable in East Bay until that changes (doubtful) it will only spread as time goes on.

I liken it to the movie The Field of Dreams. “If you build it they will come”

I still live in California and due to prop 13 I never plan on leaving get rid of prop 13 and Boise here we come. For now Orange County is still a nice place to live although much warmer.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

The traffic is an issue if you have to be out in commute times. But we are retired so we do our errands midday, and for going out for the night usually the commute traffic is over by 7 pm when we leave the house for 8 pm shows. Gas prices are high but being retired and living in an urban area with a good train system, with most of what we need close by, we don't put a lot of miles on the cars. We only spend around $30 a month on gas even at current prices. Energy is also high here, but with a fairly mild climate and energy efficient appliances, our energy bills are also not a huge budget item.

Now that we don't have to worry about the ACA cliff, we will likely invest in solar panels, electric cars, xeriscape, heat pump, etc. so our utility and gas bills should be even lower in the near future.

 

[bmcgonig]

It is even broader than that -- you get $1M above your current value. You pay only incremental assessments above that number. If you owned a home worth $1.5M in the Bay Area you could buy up to $2.5M in a new home or construct a new one and retain the same tax basis (of course there is the CG issue). This probably has reinforced some of the outward gray migration you see from the Bay Area and LA.

My cousins live in the heart of the South Bay and they have really adapted around the traffic (which can be horrible throughout the area, almost 24/7, but say if you live in SF itself, you really don't notice the concept - at least from my experience). They do fine on a much reduced income level as their homes are paid off. (Their kids have moved out and are located in the greater Sacramento area, where they can buy a house)

I think Davis is mostly elevated by UC Davis, but also their local schools are quite strong as well. Some people like a college town feel and the surrounding support services in town.

As an aside, rates are higher for the more rural areas because costs of service delivery is higher in less populated areas. (Spouse works in health care administration)

BTW, congrats to the OP from a fellow NorCaler (in OMY)

Don’t thinks that the case regarding extra million.

https://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/lta21019.pdf



“However, if the transfer of taxable value is to a replacement primary residence that has a full cash value that is of greater value than the full cash value of the original primary residence, then the taxable value of the replacement primary residence is deemed to be the taxable value of the original primary residence plus the difference between the full cash value of the original primary residence and the full cash value of the replacement primary residence.”

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Fully admit I never thought I would make as much as I did as a Bay Area nurse. Mind blowing $106/ hour.

Yes the area you live in matters. Oakland,Hayward, Castro Valley,San Leandro et el don’t plan on feeling safe.
Dublin, Pleasanton, and Livermore definitely nicer but from what I experienced not for long. Crime and homelessness are acceptable in East Bay until that changes (doubtful) it will only spread as time goes on.

I liken it to the movie The Field of Dreams. “If you build it they will come”

I still live in California and due to prop 13 I never plan on leaving get rid of prop 13 and Boise here we come. For now Orange County is still a nice place to live although much warmer.

I like Orange County, it seems like a great place to live. We have friends and family in that area. But aren't traffic and homelessness just as big of issues there as they are in the Bay Area?

Here's How L.A.-Orange County Ranks Among Traffic Congestion | Orange County, CA Patch - "The urban area of Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim took home the dubious honor of worst overall congestion in the United States...Drivers in Orange County and L.A. spend on average 119 hours each year in traffic delays, the highest amount in the country."

As Deaths Mount, OC Must Confront Hard Conversations on Homelessness "Homeless deaths continue to spike to record levels and countless families are living on the edge out of cars, motels and hotels.....Last month, 51 homeless people died in Orange County, a record setting pace of 287 for the year, according to Coroner data – which often doesn’t include deaths in hospitals."

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Don’t thinks that the case regarding extra million.

https://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/lta21019.pdf

“However, if the transfer of taxable value is to a replacement primary residence that has a full cash value that is of greater value than the full cash value of the original primary residence, then the taxable value of the replacement primary residence is deemed to be the taxable value of the original primary residence plus the difference between the full cash value of the original primary residence and the full cash value of the replacement primary residence.”

The million comes in if you are leaving a house to one of the kids, not moving and taking your property tax with you. One of the kids can get the parents' property tax on house values up to $1M, if they live in the house, but for more expensive houses they have to pay property tax at the going rate above the $1M. I haven't read about any $1M exclusion for anything else.

 

[oiseux]

Don’t thinks that the case regarding extra million.

https://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/lta21019.pdf



“However, if the transfer of taxable value is to a replacement primary residence that has a full cash value that is of greater value than the full cash value of the original primary residence, then the taxable value of the replacement primary residence is deemed to be the taxable value of the original primary residence plus the difference between the full cash value of the original primary residence and the full cash value of the replacement primary residence.”

Yes, you are right, I completely conflated it with the transfer value case (and that even is a limit). The transfer case for 55+ is capped at 100% to 110% (new build, year 2). And 3x.



Although rush hour traffic is impenetrable, things can still be amazingly crowded on 101 and 880 late and night. But yes, things do lighten up on the various roads after a certain hour and people learn work around it. As I mentioned, if you stay in SF, although you can see a surge of people (especially on Muni/Bart) at rush hour, you really don't feel traffic per say. You just see the cars backed up on 101 and 280.

 

[Vacation4us]

LA and Orange County are comparing apples to oranges. I live in South Orange County much further away from LA.

There are some homeless here but no where near East Bay levels. It’s not acceptable here and thank goodness our police still engage and move along any who decide to camp in public places.

Our freeways are clean. When DH and I moved to East Bay the first thing I asked him was what the heck does Cal Trans do up here? His response was “well one of them got killed on the freeway and now non of them have to keep the freeways clean anymore”. The dirt, filth, derelicts, thieves, and drug addicts I personally encountered in my short few years in the area will forever paint my view of the area.

The ER at Eden is constantly filled with homeless drug addicts, ( except during Covid, then the ER was empty).

I was robbed while just off work, my DH wouldn’t let me walk the neighborhood, as a nurse I was hit, cursed at , and spat on. PS I am (was) a labor and delivery nurse literally the happiest unit in the hospital.

To me My time in East Bay was unforgettable. We visited many places while there. Marin is beautiful no homeless but we didn’t have 3 million for a house there and the commute back to Hayward and Castro Valley would have been a killer. My DH once took 2 hours to travel from his office to home a mere 12 miles.

I feel for every super commuter who drives 2 plus hours each way just to get those higher wages. I am incredibly grateful my commute wasn’t even 2 miles. We met some great friends while there ( only one still lives there ). You couldn’t pay me to go back.

Traffic is getting worse here they have way overbuilt without adding freeway lanes, but like other retired people I rarely get on the freeway during commute hours. It’s clean with plenty of attractions close by in one so desires. I grew up in the San Fernando Valley. It was nice back then too. I am sure as time passes our little piece of paradise will erode too. Votes matter but I have no faith that California will not continue on its current trajectory. I may not understand why people choose to accept the blight but we have enough $$ to leave if it comes to that.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

LA and Orange County are comparing apples to oranges. I live in South Orange County much further away from LA.

There are some homeless here but no where near East Bay levels. It’s not acceptable here and thank goodness our police still engage and move along any who decide to camp in public places.

I'm pretty sure the articles in the previous post aren't making up the traffic and homeless issues for LA and Orange County as a whole. If you lived in Blackhawk in the East Bay you wouldn't see a lot of traffic or homeless issues, either, and you wouldn't need to ever drive on 880. Following your same logic, isn't comparing where you lived in the East Bay like comparing apples to oranges to someone who lives in Blackhawk? If so, it seems perhaps there are more and less desirable areas in both locations, since they are both huge metro areas with around 10 million people in each one.

 

[zippy2020]

>>Yes the area you live in matters. Oakland,Hayward, Castro Valley,San Leandro et el don’t plan on feeling safe.>>

Sorry, can't agree. I grew up in the ghettoes of Chicago, moved to NorCA in 1969, and bought a home in Oakland in 1989.

The only place I was ever mugged was in San Francisco!

Just FYI:
As of February 2022, according to CBS News website, the murder capitols of the US were:

1 St. Louis, MO
2 Baltimore, MD
3 Birmingham, AL
4 Detroit, MI
5 Dayton, OH
6 Baton Rouge, LA
7 New Orleans, LA
8 Kansas City, MO
9 Memphis, TN
10 Cleveland, OH

The highest CA city on the list is San Bernardino, CA in Southern CA

 

[JJpop]

Isn't this the first positive post regarding living in the Bay area ever ?
Daylatedollarshort was correct on all counts based on my personal experience living in the Bay area.

We need all the negative posts about the Bay Area to keep more people out.
If you are fortunate to have a paid off home in my opinion there is no better place to live unless you want snow, and even snow is only about 3 hours drive away.