A 2007 poll* on the forum indicated more than 75% of the 267 who responded had net worths in the seven figure range. Add the fact that many also have very nice pension benefits, and I think it shows you are attempting to make a "case-in-point" where the evidence does not offer support.
*http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/net-worth-2007-a-24852.html
There was actually a more recent one. Still, the results are from those members who specifically chose to answer the question, meaning not a "representative sample."A 2007 poll* on the forum indicated more than 75% of the 267 who responded had net worths in the seven figure range. Add the fact that many also have very nice pension benefits, and I think it shows you are attempting to make a "case-in-point" where the evidence does not offer support.
*http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/net-worth-2007-a-24852.html
Why not? That's what I've done...I suppose I should just get used to the fact that some posts are going to be lengthy, yet entirely fact free.
I'm not allowed to make conclusions from reading the forum but you are. I think I see a disconnect here.
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If you want to spend and not work, please tell me how (no illegal, nor immoral answers please)
Why not? That's what I've done...
I spent all morning at the beach with my 3 year old and the afternoon at our farm share picking up our vegetables. My son told me all about his wife Angelica who drives an SUV and will go to the fire station with him to help him put out the fires when they call him up. She has black hair by the way.
Priceless.
Now, I could have spent the day in a conference room arguing with people over what name we should call a program, or having some VP tell me I have to do a project in half the time it'll take to do a decent job, with half the money and half the people needed.
Tell ya what, I think I'm going to have to think it over a while. I'm just going to sink into the couch, suck up the air conditioning and take a little nap in my mcmansion in one of Fortune magazines 50 best places to live and wait for my wife to drive her Lexus home from her shopping trip and wake me up in time for dinner.
Ahhh...poverty...
Exceptionally well.
IIRC the guy who thinks we all live in poverty wants to spend a quarter million a year, have a house full of hired help and so forth. Anything less is grovelling in the dirt looking for bugs to eat.
And he's most welcome to the associated long work hours to pay for that, and its probably unsustainable without working.
I spent all morning at the beach with my 3 year old and the afternoon at our farm share picking up our vegetables. My son told me all about his wife Angelica who drives an SUV and will go to the fire station with him to help him put out the fires when they call him up. She has black hair by the way.
Priceless.
Now, I could have spent the day in a conference room arguing with people over what name we should call a program, or having some VP tell me I have to do a project in half the time it'll take to do a decent job, with half the money and half the people needed.
Tell ya what, I think I'm going to have to think it over a while. I'm just going to sink into the couch, suck up the air conditioning and take a little nap in my mcmansion in one of Fortune magazines 50 best places to live and wait for my wife to drive her Lexus home from her shopping trip and wake me up in time for dinner.
Ahhh...poverty...
In response to eridanus, yes, a lot of my expenses related to my car would go down in retirement; however, the car expense of $250/mo for two German made vehicles, both over 5 years old (one is over 5 years and the other is over 8 years) is about right. Last December, I paid about $3,800 for some major work on my car (as it has two turbos, it heats up a lot and can cause issues that cars without two turbos would never happen). Between tires, brakes, oil changes, etc., every 5000 miles for two vehicles out of warranty, every time you take it in, it's about $250-$1,000, depending on what is the problem. If there is something really wrong, it can be much more, as in last December. I am waiting until after I retire to buy a new car as my car sits in a parking lot and gets tons of door dings, etc. However, I'm going to be more sensible and probably buy a Toyota.
In response to laurencewill, driving in Los Angeles, for me, is much more fun because you can drive fast. About 12 years ago, I used to race cars as a hobby...was officially licensed and raced for the SCCA in Southern California. Boy, was that amazing, having fun with the boys. Yes, I know, people try to run you off the road for kicks, you can the finger all of the time, but driving in those diamond lanes at 90-100 mph is great, as long as there is not too much traffic, about 2:00 am in the morning!!! I'm actually a very safe driver, don't cut in and out of lanes (like people in San Diego do) and I don't drive 40 mph in the fast lane (like people in San Diego do)...and use my blinker, a foreign concept for San Diego drivers...
Regarding retirement, yes, I'm going to be one who does not want to work and am willing to cut my expenses for not having to put up with the BS and complaining and unrealistic expectations. I'm tired and I want to go out and play, my way...as I said before, if I need to work part time to fund my fun, then so be it!!! I looooovvvvvveeeeee fun and hate BS, so fun wins everytime.
Susan
Like I said, I didn't really notice the race track of death feeling of L.A. freeways when I lived there (Northridge specifically), but after living in slower, more polite San Diego for the last decade, driving up there makes my teeth grit!? heh? Well, they keep you guessing, just to make sure you're awake!!! Yes, I am your nightmare in your rear view mirror...just keep going faster or slow down really fast, because I'm going to pass you, either on my terms or on my terms; it's your choice...lollawrencewill: did I say that LA drivers use their blinkers
Just kidding...yes, I know a lot of LA drivers are fast but inpolite and San Diego drivers are slow and polite, but if you have a fast car like mine...it doesn't matter!!!
You know the best thing I ever did was learn how to race cars because it taught me to be a very defensive driver and patient, which a lot of people, no matter where you drive, never learn. And to be quite honest, the traffic in San Diego is getting bad (not as bad as LA, I agree), but I'm not getting so many speeding tickets as I used to because I can't drive as fast (and be safe). And, I don't drive 90-100 miles per hour in San Diego because I would probably kill myself. If you drive less than 90 mph in the diamond lanes in LA, you will get killed for sure.
Susan
I'm green with envy that CFB spent the day at the beach with his 3 year old while I did exactly what he described about office life above today.
NW-Bound,Going back to read the OP, then the reply by CaseInPoint, I saw that I missed something the first time.
The issue here is that some people are trying to see
a) If it would be possible to retire early, YET also keep their spending levels the same as when they still draw a salary.
b) If there has to be cutback, then it appears to the same people that it may be a miserable life in poverty.
Am I correct?
To answer the question a) one has to differentiate one's income level, and one's expenses. Most of people who ER limit their expenses, so that 1) they can save, and 2) to limit their spending level so that ER becomes feasible.
Many of younger members here, for example Firedreamer and Marquette, have told us how they have been able to save much of their income. But I will take myself as an example. In a previous good year, my main salary at a megacorp plus some outside moon lighting work earned me close to $200K that year. Ignore my wife salary for now. If we conditioned ourselves to spend all that money (or what was left after tax), we would need $5M in order to retire (at 4% withdrawal rate). But if we spend all of what we make, how do we save up $5M?
So, obviously, reducing expenses serves two purposes: a) allows you to save and b) reduces your expenses so that ER becomes feasible.
As for the feeling that the reduced expenses will make you feel miserable, that is a very personal thing. I do not feel deprived. Most of the members do not think so, either.
So, to answer the OP and CaseInPoint, it is true that it is VERY tough to be able to retire early, AND have income (read expenses) level same as when you work. Short of winning the lottery, or being able to hit the jackpot on the stock market roulette, or inherit a lot of money, I do not see how.
If you want to maintain high expenses as if you were working, in most cases you would have to work. It's that simple.
What I have learned is this: some people want to work and spend, and some people do not want to work and are willing to cut their expenses as the price to pay. Neither group should pick on the other. If you want to spend and not work, please tell me how (no illegal, nor immoral answers please)
PS. Forget about ER. How about just R? Does any pension plan pay 100% COLA of full-time pay?
And I found myself in a subgroup that is willing to work if it is part-time, interesting, well-paid and no BS. In bad economic times, that may be non-existent, so I am preparing myself to join the ER group in a moment's notice.
