Help me get over my ER anxiety!

[Texas Proud]

Its easy, no kids - so no college $$. Cheap house (380K), cheap car (2016 CX5 16k) mean only 3k in taxes/insurance. Cheap vacations - we mostly drive, camp and hike. Cheap eats - I cook most meals from scratch and base what we eat on what is on sale.
Health Insurance is number one on my list of problems and not included in my $15k.
I definitely want more time with loved ones. Working from home does assist in that endeavor.
I guess healthcare and future uncertainty (market crashes, interest rates going lower) are what are really slowing down my decision. Assuring I can keep 30 years of solid income is keeping from taking the plunge.

I have a nice house, but it is only worth $270K (it is cheap down here)... taxes are over $4K and insurance is about the same (maybe not so cheap)...

 

[TimeMeasure]

My wife retired last year - she was hit by a drunk driver while biking and has some memory issues, that make work not fun, and I figured we didn't need her income.

So should I stay or should I go?

My sympathies on your wife’s situation, and for you in trying to help her.

If you’d like to look at the thought process of someone in a similar situation, take a look at my original post in this forum. There are some similarities between our situations. I received similar advice to what you’ve received so far: If the calculations indicate that you have a high probability of success, then swing for the fences and do what is best for you and your wife. Although I haven’t pulled the final trigger yet, I’ve made arrangements to go part time, with the understanding that that will very likely lead to early retirement early next year.

The one thing you might want to take a deeper look at is the actual analysis of your financial situation. You seem to have marshaled all the facts about your assets, but there seem to be some discrepancies - e.g. you mentioned yearly expenses of $15k, which seems unrealistically low, but then I believe in another post you mentioned $40k. It can’t be both, and the details matter. You also mentioned that you were not sure how to get a health care estimate since you didn’t know what your income would be - understandable, but it’s important to make at least some estimate rather than leaving it to the side. Even a worst-case estimate is better than nothing.

So, realistically estimating all expenses, and then doing the analysis (whether using FIREcalc, a spreadsheet, or the back of a napkin) to assess how likely your assets will be to cover those expenses for a reasonable timeframe, seems to be key. You’re getting responses here indicating that you’re likely good to go, and there is a lot of friendly wisdom in this group, but it’s good to supplement that with your own detailed analysis.

Best of luck to both you and your wife. It sounds like a difficult and unexpected situation - but you have the good fortune to have some options for how to deal with that situation.

 

[exnavynuke]

15k is the average over the past 9 years. I have added some lumpy type expenses - new car, roof... So I do figure we need about $40k.
Healthcare is something I cannot wrap my head around.
To get a quote (assuming the ACA is still around), i need to now my income, which I really don't know!

With your current assets, you can afford to withdraw/spend $99,050/year at a 3.5% withdraw rate (quite conservative). Being that is almost 2.5x what you plan to spend (including one time items etc), I can see absolutely no financial reason for you to continue working. You're more than set for life already.

 

[Music Lover]

My health insurance is over $15K per year before credit...

My costs of DS in college is more than $15K per year..

My cost of vacations is more than $15K per year.... (DW spends way too much)

My property tax + house insurance + car insurance is more than $15K per year...

Heck, my grocery bill is close to $10K per year... and this does not include eating out....

I do not see how someone can live on $15K a year without living in poverty....

Well, to be fair, what you spend would look ridiculous to many people. No offense meant...

I eat extremely well on $3000 a year, including eating out.

My property taxes, house and auto insurance are $4000 a year.

I could easily get by on $20k a year with no sacrifices at all.

 

[SAtoUS]

You are crazy to still work mate... Life is short and you only have one. Go on a long trip with your wife. Leave work now, don't even finish the day

 

[Texas Proud]

Well, to be fair, what you spend would look ridiculous to many people. No offense meant...

I eat extremely well on $3000 a year, including eating out.

My property taxes, house and auto insurance are $4000 a year.

I could easily get by on $20k a year with no sacrifices at all.

Are you single? I could get by much cheaper when single...

I had a cheaper house, fewer cars and fewer mouths to feed...

A son on auto insurance more than doubles the cost... DW buys fresh food all the time.. we have very little from the inside aisles, so that is expensive....

Yes, I think what I pay is ridiculous, but with a number of these expenses it requires a life change to do which DW is not willing to do...

 

[GravitySucks]

+1



I had a wife. She passed away very suddenly before I retired. It sure would have been nice to have had some time with her in retirement. You only get one chance in life, so I say make the most of it.



.

+3

At close to $3M plus the annuity you have no chance of going broke even if you double up your discretionary spending at your spend rate.

At least consider a sabbatical. Your IT skills won't be that irrelevant in one year.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

My health insurance is over $15K per year before credit...

My costs of DS in college is more than $15K per year..

My cost of vacations is more than $15K per year.... (DW spends way too much)

My property tax + house insurance + car insurance is more than $15K per year...

Heck, my grocery bill is close to $10K per year... and this does not include eating out....

I do not see how someone can live on $15K a year without living in poverty....

Because people are different in how they spend...as an example, our expenses are...

My costs of [-]DS in college[/-] is more than $[-]15K per year[/-]..we have no kids, so this is 0.

My cost of vacations is more than $[-]15K per year.[/-]... (DW spends way too much). We take between 3 and 4 nice trips a year, this year, we spent less than 6K.

My property tax + house insurance + car insurance is more than $[-]15K per year[/-]...all in (including an umbrella policy) is more than $4K per year.

Heck, my grocery bill is close to $[-]10K per year[/-]... and this does not include eating out......our groceries (and other sundries from Costco) is more than $7K per year.

As a matter of fact, our "all in" spending this year will be around $19K (or 26K with the trips and eating out added in) and we don't want for much of anything.

This month, I have been retired for 3 years. It has been, by far, the fastest time has gone by, and the BEST TIME OF MY LIFE. So...DO IT!!! There doesn't seem to be a good reason to NOT do so!

 

[Elbata]

I understand. Holding someone's hand and helping them is part of what the ER community and this forum is all about.

[mod edit] how much hand-holding do you need? Come on man, grow some GD balls.

(To Forum Watchdogs: Please don't ban me from posting. I'll go back to my regularly scheduled PC comments.)

 

[MichaelB]

Just because it’s not against forum rules does not mean it is in good taste.

 

[travelover]

Just because it’s not against forum rules does not mean it is in good taste.

+1

 

[Oma_here]

Will you be able to get the needed health insurance for your wife if the ACA does not survive and pre-existing conditions come roaring back?

 

[candrew]

This month, I have been retired for 3 years. It has been, by far, the fastest time has gone by, and the BEST TIME OF MY LIFE. So...DO IT!!!

+1

It has been 12 months for DW since our ER and the time has passed for us at a blurring rate. No one should w*rk a minute longer than they absolutely have to or want to. Get while the gettin' is good!!

 

[CaliKid]

I am impressed by your spending. That's amazing. If I spent that far below by means I would get out today. Good luck to you!

 

[ivanl3]

$15k/yr. you mean per month, right?

 

[cbslc]

All right, I think I'm going to do it, but hoping to put off till March as I can defer 100% of my salary, get my 6% match into my 401k and get some extra funds into my HSA. Just for clarification, 15k is my average per year spend since 2011. This doesn't include income taxes or health insurance. So I figure, I will have 30-40k annual expenses in retirement, this will include taxes and health insurance (hopefully).
I did run firecalc, it shows 0 times of me ending with 0 before 85. I also used the optimal retirement calculator with a few more parameters and it has me spending $89k/yr and running out of money at 98.
The pre-existing condition may hamper my insurability if ACA is killed.
I was running some #'s and starting to wonder if its cheaper to self insure. For example, if my annual expense is 10K for a 5k deductible plan, that's 15k/yr. If we are diligent and put that 15k into savings, in 7 yrs we have another 100k for expenses. Neither my wife or I have been to a doctor in a few years, we prefer hitting the gym/trail/healthy eats for preventative care. We have 26k in our HSA already, so I have a little buffer.
Anyway, are there things aside from healthcare that I am not thinking about?
I pretty well dismissed SS, if its around, great... Will my working a part year next year impact my SS?
Will working a part year, if I keep my taxable income low (max 401k), hurt any subsidy I get from ACA?

 

[Hermit]

All right, I think I'm going to do it, but hoping to put off till March as I can defer 100% of my salary, get my 6% match into my 401k and get some extra funds into my HSA. Just for clarification, 15k is my average per year spend since 2011. This doesn't include income taxes or health insurance. So I figure, I will have 30-40k annual expenses in retirement, this will include taxes and health insurance (hopefully).
I did run firecalc, it shows 0 times of me ending with 0 before 85. I also used the optimal retirement calculator with a few more parameters and it has me spending $89k/yr and running out of money at 98.
The pre-existing condition may hamper my insurability if ACA is killed.
I was running some #'s and starting to wonder if its cheaper to self insure. For example, if my annual expense is 10K for a 5k deductible plan, that's 15k/yr. If we are diligent and put that 15k into savings, in 7 yrs we have another 100k for expenses. Neither my wife or I have been to a doctor in a few years, we prefer hitting the gym/trail/healthy eats for preventative care. We have 26k in our HSA already, so I have a little buffer.
Anyway, are there things aside from healthcare that I am not thinking about?
I pretty well dismissed SS, if its around, great... Will my working a part year next year impact my SS?
Will working a part year, if I keep my taxable income low (max 401k), hurt any subsidy I get from ACA?

Way bad idea. Get a Bronze plan. Something with a high deductible would work for you. You cannot plan on getting or not getting the sudden brain tumor my friend had a couple of years ago. Nor can you be so careful as to never have an accident. Insurance will keep your finances in tact with sudden major medical issues.

 

[Souschef]

Way bad idea. Get a Bronze plan. Something with a high deductible would work for you. You cannot plan on getting or not getting the sudden brain tumor my friend had a couple of years ago. Nor can you be so careful as to never have an accident. Insurance will keep your finances in tact with sudden major medical issues.

I agree- Out of nowhere, my DW suffered a subarachnoid aneurysm at the age of 56!

 

[Livefree]

All right, I think I'm going to do it, but hoping to put off till March as I can defer 100% of my salary, get my 6% match into my 401k and get some extra funds into my HSA. Just for clarification, 15k is my average per year spend since 2011. This doesn't include income taxes or health insurance. So I figure, I will have 30-40k annual expenses in retirement, this will include taxes and health insurance (hopefully).
I did run firecalc, it shows 0 times of me ending with 0 before 85. I also used the optimal retirement calculator with a few more parameters and it has me spending $89k/yr and running out of money at 98.
The pre-existing condition may hamper my insurability if ACA is killed.
I was running some #'s and starting to wonder if its cheaper to self insure. For example, if my annual expense is 10K for a 5k deductible plan, that's 15k/yr. If we are diligent and put that 15k into savings, in 7 yrs we have another 100k for expenses. Neither my wife or I have been to a doctor in a few years, we prefer hitting the gym/trail/healthy eats for preventative care. We have 26k in our HSA already, so I have a little buffer.
Anyway, are there things aside from healthcare that I am not thinking about?
I pretty well dismissed SS, if its around, great... Will my working a part year next year impact my SS?
Will working a part year, if I keep my taxable income low (max 401k), hurt any subsidy I get from ACA?

Working part of the year should not impact your ACA Subsidy. You stated you'll max out your 401k and also any Medical payments come off of taxable income

 

[rodi]

I have to agree on the bad idea to self insure. I looked at our past healthcare usage and thought we were gravy and went with one of the cheapest HDHP w/HSAs. We hit our Max OOP 2 years in a row, my first two years of retirement.. (Too early to say for this year.)

What I discovered is that insurance is not as much about coverage... it's about NEGOTIATED RATES. First year older son was hospitalized for 3 days and our negotiated rate was $845/day... Rack rate was $1800/day. 2nd year older son had a fast growing ameloblastoma (non cancerous tumor) on his jaw... needed some pretty specialized surgery (2 maxilofacial surgeons both with full DDS and MD and buckets full of board certifications.) It was outpatient - but it still hit $6k. EOB said it *would* have been $14k.

Just having insurance gets you that negotiated rate... since I was on a HDHP - I was paying OOP - but I was paying that much reduced rate.

 

[Scout]

I have to agree on the bad idea to self insure. I looked at our past healthcare usage and thought we were gravy and went with one of the cheapest HDHP w/HSAs. We hit our Max OOP 2 years in a row, my first two years of retirement.. (Too early to say for this year.)

What I discovered is that insurance is not as much about coverage... it's about NEGOTIATED RATES. First year older son was hospitalized for 3 days and our negotiated rate was $845/day... Rack rate was $1800/day. 2nd year older son had a fast growing ameloblastoma (non cancerous tumor) on his jaw... needed some pretty specialized surgery (2 maxilofacial surgeons both with full DDS and MD and buckets full of board certifications.) It was outpatient - but it still hit $6k. EOB said it *would* have been $14k.

Just having insurance gets you that negotiated rate... since I was on a HDHP - I was paying OOP - but I was paying that much reduced rate.

Excellent point

 

[DrBrisket]

....
What I discovered is that insurance is not as much about coverage... it's about NEGOTIATED RATES. First year older son was hospitalized for 3 days and our negotiated rate was $845/day... Rack rate was $1800/day. 2nd year older son had a fast growing ameloblastoma (non cancerous tumor) on his jaw... needed some pretty specialized surgery (2 maxilofacial surgeons both with full DDS and MD and buckets full of board certifications.) It was outpatient - but it still hit $6k. EOB said it *would* have been $14k.
....

Bingo!!!

I was just reviewing an EOB for an outpatient procedure for MrsBrisket. It's kinda surreal:

Amount billed to insurance = $42k
Plan discounts = $34k

Stated differently, for ER folks, "health insurance" is actually "wealth insurance".

 

[FargoI]

I concur with Rodi, Dr B., and others. Anyone with hard earned accumulated wealth can not afford to self-insure for HC (auto comp and collision, perhaps).

Here's why-

$3mm, at non- negotiated HC billing rates can disappear quickly, very, very quickly. Many, if not most HC organizations will not be the least bit sympathetic to a guarantor who has $2-3mm in accumulated wealth.

...seemingly simply procedures, such as emergency gallbladder surgery, bill at rack rates can result in >$100k OOP expense. The surgery will likely be preceded by a ER visit, a "battery" of expensive, stat, invasive diagnostic testing, clinical such as endoscopy and a minimal two hospital day stay. Granted, an elective gallbladder removal is less expensive and less complicated in many regards...but not everything in life is elective. Beyond a Surgeon's fee is a little know, but costly, "Facility" fee. Facility fees are the hidden abyss in HC, meaning they rarely show up on self pay cost estimators. Truly these are the $600-1500 room fees, $20 Tylenols, $5.00 single gauze pads, and everything in between. Each time the hospital staff scans a bar code, that's a billable charge. In aggregate, it's not unusual for Facility fees to quickly dwarf Provider's charges (e.g. surgeon's fees).

Switch gears to contemporary Cancer treatments, with tailored diagnostic testing and treatments. These procedures can consume $100k in first year alone. Injections following each chemo session (to promote blood cell growth) are list price $14k/injection. Ongoing medications and regular checkups, without a HC plan will bill at $150-250 per physician visit. Ancillary testing ( lab and rad) are akin to paying msrp for tangible products in life. And in today's CYA environment, clinicians tend to over order and sometimes duplicate ancillary tests. MRIs, biopsy...lifetime costs attributable to BC treatment, OOP, one can be looking a $1mm.

Suffice to say, I know HC like the back of my hand (insider) *and* as a result of DW's plethora of medical conditions. I also know first hand, HC IT is grueling and unforgiving.

Before anyone jumps to ER, they owe it to them-self to create a budget that reasonably estimates HC insurance expenses to age Medicare eligibility.

Remember these principles :


1. 'it's not your circus and you really are not responsible for (all) the animals'


2: ' it's not about the plan, it's all about the activity of (ER) planning'

Best wishes to you and your wife.

 

[StephieJean]

ER Anxiety

Having read all of your threads, you have all helped my ER anxiety tremendously. Thank you. I got dis'.