Hi! Ameriprise client needing advice...

[cucumber]

If you have any more comparison of Amerprise vs Vanguard fund to make I am sure we can help provide a different view.

The one and only comparison that she sent to me so far is MFS International Value C (MGICX) vs Vanguard International Value Inv (VTRIX).

 

[2B]

I'm so excited for this whole ordeal to be over!!!!

Just do it!

 

[ERD50]

... She didn't provide all the info that I asked for though. We did multiple comparisons but she only sent one of them. She said the file was too big. Really?!?! It was maybe 20 pieces of paper at most. Anyway, the comparison she sent was MFS International Value C (MGICX) vs the Vanguard International Value Inv (VTRIX). The MFS fund which she has me invested in appears to be performing better than the Vanguard fund. I'm guessing this is why she chose to send this one and not the other ones that we compared. ...

I'd say that's a pretty good guess! Funny one, 'the file's too big, the dog ate my homework, and the sun was in my eyes, I spilled coffee on my keyboard,.... but I'll manage to send you this one that did better!'.

Gotta wonder if that was the only one 'worth' sending to you out of twenty? And did it reflect her 1% fee, or just the fund performance itself?

Here's a chart of those two including divs (drag the slider to adjust time frame to full history).

PerfCharts - StockCharts.com - Free Charts

Depending on the time frame, they track fairly close and trade top position back-forth. MGICX has done better since about 2011 though. Kind of a mixed bag overall, but really pretty decent. Whether that recent performance holds going forward is anyone's guess. And that was likely the 'best' of 20 - not very impressive, luck should provide at least a few hot picks.

If you are curious, devious, or just might be entertained (I'm all three!), you might want to call her back and say thanks for that chart, it really was very impressive, maybe I was hasty, can you send me the other 19, one at a time since that file was not 'too big'?

At this point, I suspect she will ignore you and move to greener pastures. You now know too much to be of value to her. Congrats!

-ERD50

 

[target2019]

The one and only comparison that she sent to me so far is MFS International Value C (MGICX) vs Vanguard International Value Inv (VTRIX).

Keep in mind that the results vary over different time periods. Then subtract your AUM fee, and any loads you paid. Those are not on the chart, I assume.

 

[easysurfer]

... She actually got back to me tonight. She didn't provide all the info that I asked for though. We did multiple comparisons but she only sent one of them. She said the file was too big. Really?!?! ... I'll probably be calling Vanguard by the end of the week.

I'm so excited for this whole ordeal to be over!!!!

I think that not having ready access to all the info is reason enough to look elsewhere. As you can tell by that, you are just one client of many that she has and the "help" that you pay for isn't really so personalized.

You'll have a huge load off your shoulders when you move to Vanguard. Consider the fees you paid to her an investment and learning experience. Many of us have been there before we saw the light. Congrats!

 

[pb4uski]

....Haven't decided on if I want to just suck it up and pay the back-end fee or leave it at Ameriprise until the back-end fee expires. This whole thing is a mess but on the bright side, I learned my lesson and I learned to save. .....

While it may be obvious, assuming the performance of the underlying fund investments is similar, take the back end fee and divide it by the difference in the annual expense ratios to get the number of years that before you would break even. If there are account maintenance charges on top of expense ratios be sure to take that into account as well.

 

[pb4uski]

It is really easy to compare tickers you own to the Vanguard alternative you are considering (you'll have to research and decide that yourself) for 3, 5 and 10 year periods on M*.

 

[cucumber]

Even after a reminder to send the comparisons, my FA still hasn't done so and sent some other info instead. So I started the process to move the funds. Unfortunately it will take 42 days because Ameriprise takes so long with all their requirements. So I won't be able to move my funds out by the end of the quarter which I'm bummed about. But I am moving on and going with Vanguard!!! I decided to just put it in the target retirement fund for now until I figure out where I want it. I figured its a safe place to put it until I learn more and decide how to invest it. I just want to thank everyone for their feedback and support!!! I'm almost Ameriprise-free!!!!!

 

[Ready]

Congratulations! I know that was a big step for you. I think the target retirement fund is just fine. In fact, I suspect the worst Vanguard fund is still better than the best Ameriprise fund, so I don't think you can go wrong with whatever you do with Vanguard. Good luck with everything!

 

[samclem]

But I am moving on and going with Vanguard!!! I decided to just put it in the target retirement fund for now until I figure out where I want it.

Good job. Let Vanguard handle the transfer as a "pull" rather than trying to "push" from the Ameriprise end.
Congratualtions on getting started. Expect a call or two from your FA or (possibly) a "new" one. Expect hiccup's with the paperwork and foot-dragging by Ameriprise. You can bet it wouldn't take this long to set up an account, it's inexplicable (right!) that it takes this long for them to close one.

 

[2B]

Good for you. Now read Millionaire Teacher; and if that's too simple, read Investor's Manifesto. Reading Scott Burns' column is always a good idea too. Don't feel like you need to overwork the education process. I think that knowing too much actually works against some people.

 

[ERD50]

I just want to thank everyone for their feedback and support!!! I'm almost Ameriprise-free!!!!!

Sounds good!

Funny how these threads all seem to end the same?

I have yet to see one end with "OK, thanks everyone for enlightening me on how to properly bench-mark my Ameriprise account against a simple, DIY portfolio of low cost, (mostly) index funds. I found my Ameriprise FA has me at an appropriate risk level, and is significantly outperforming the relevant DIY benchmarks after fees/expenses. So I will stay with them. Thanks, this was a valuable exercise. I feel so much better now."

I decided to just put it in the target retirement fund for now until I figure out where I want it. I figured its a safe place to put it until I learn more and decide how to invest it.

Sounds good to me. I wouldn't be in any big rush to move it. Take your time to read up, and you very well may decide that the target fund is just fine after that reading.

You are on a great path! Congrats!

-ERD50

 

[Animorph]

According to its Fidelity listing, MGICX has a 1% 12b-1 fee (distribution and/or service fee). 1.89% total fees (normal fund management plus that 1%). And the 1% back-end load. The back end load usually goes to the fund share holders and is used to keep people from trading quickly in and out of the fund and raising its management expenses, so that is not a bad thing. The 1% 12b-1 fee however is humongous, and some of it goes to your FA each year, if I understand it correctly.

There are a ton of different share classes for this fund. The A shares (MGIAX) have only 1.14% total expenses, but have the bad old 5.75% front load. The I shares (MINIX) list your 0.89% expense ratio without the 12b-1 fee or loads. But I don't see a minimum investment amount.

The performance comparison is valid, and it is Vanguard's best fund in that class, though it is not an index fund and a total international index fund is more their style. MGICX's 10 year annualized return is 8.83%. (The class A shares return is 9.59%, all due to the extra expenses you pay.) VTRIX's return is 6.99%, even with its 0.43% expense ratio. MFS has been doing a good job, so far. But they have to have investment gains of 1.46% above whatever Vanguard makes just to stay even with them. That is actually fairly difficult to do. So future results are not guaranteed to be this good. It is really easy to pick the fund with the best past performance (and this is one of them). It is really difficult to pick the fund with the best future performance.

I use DODFX and ARTKX as my foreign value funds, though they are currently listed as blend instead of value. Both have done better than the MFS fund and have reasonable expenses.

 

[cucumber]

Update: My funds are transferring from Ameriprise to Vanguard today. I'm very upset though because Ameriprise charged me $100 per transfer type!! So in total I'll probably be charged $600. $100 for 3 of the Roth IRA's that our advisor set up separately which I don't understand why and $100 for 2 of my other traditional IRA's which she did separately as well and $100 for our taxable account. It makes me sooo mad!! I think it's ridiculous especially since I just rolled over my IRA accounts and Fidelity didn't charge me anything. If I knew about the fee, I wouldn't have rolled it over to Ameriprise. Good riddance Ameriprise!!!!!!!

 

[aja8888]

Update: My funds are transferring from Ameriprise to Vanguard today. I'm very upset though because Ameriprise charged me $100 per transfer type!! So in total I'll probably be charged $600. $100 for 3 of the Roth IRA's that our advisor set up separately which I don't understand why and $100 for 2 of my other traditional IRA's which she did separately as well and $100 for our taxable account. It makes me sooo mad!! I think it's ridiculous especially since I just rolled over my IRA accounts and Fidelity didn't charge me anything. If I knew about the fee, I wouldn't have rolled it over to Ameriprise. Good riddance Ameriprise!!!!!!!

Nice folks, aren't they.

 

[powerplay]

Update: My funds are transferring from Ameriprise to Vanguard today. I'm very upset though because Ameriprise charged me $100 per transfer type!! So in total I'll probably be charged $600. $100 for 3 of the Roth IRA's that our advisor set up separately which I don't understand why and $100 for 2 of my other traditional IRA's which she did separately as well and $100 for our taxable account. It makes me sooo mad!! I think it's ridiculous especially since I just rolled over my IRA accounts and Fidelity didn't charge me anything. If I knew about the fee, I wouldn't have rolled it over to Ameriprise. Good riddance Ameriprise!!!!!!!

Congratulations! It is frustrating to see the fees they are charging you, however this should be the LAST time. I hope you are happy with Vanguard. I have a couple of IRA accounts with Vanguard and am happy with them and the help they gave to move the accounts. I recently had to pay quite a bit to move an inherited IRA from EJ to Vanguard (annual IRA fee, fees to sell stocks). They get their money, but not any longer.

 

[braumeister]

On the bright side, you've had a valuable lesson in investment management.
And since you paid $600 for that lesson, it will stick with you forever.

 

[travelover]

.......... Ameriprise charged me $100 per transfer type!! So in total I'll probably be charged $600.......

Very classy of Ameriprise. Be sure to post this on their Facebook site, Yelp and anywhere elsewhere they might have a presence.

 

[cucumber]

Very classy of Ameriprise. Be sure to post this on their Facebook site, Yelp and anywhere elsewhere they might have a presence.

Great idea!!!!!

 

[easysurfer]

Update: My funds are transferring from Ameriprise to Vanguard today. I'm very upset though because Ameriprise charged me $100 per transfer type!! So in total I'll probably be charged $600. $100 for 3 of the Roth IRA's that our advisor set up separately which I don't understand why and $100 for 2 of my other traditional IRA's which she did separately as well and $100 for our taxable account. It makes me sooo mad!! I think it's ridiculous especially since I just rolled over my IRA accounts and Fidelity didn't charge me anything. If I knew about the fee, I wouldn't have rolled it over to Ameriprise. Good riddance Ameriprise!!!!!!!

Consider the $600 very well spent for your freedom.

Another way to look at it, in the future when someone has the same question to stick with Ameriprise or DIY, when you tell them to RUN, by them listening to you will cost Ameriprise more than the $600 .

Congrats on your independence day!

 

[karluk]

A blood sucking leech doesn't stop being a blood sucking leech just because you spot it and remove it from your skin. This sort of outrageous transfer fee is only to be expected from a sleazy operator like Ameriprise. The good news is that you're now free of the leech and it won't be feeding on you any longer.

 

[Chuckanut]

Update: My funds are transferring from Ameriprise to Vanguard today. I'm very upset though because Ameriprise charged me $100 per transfer type!! So in total I'll probably be charged $600.

I am sorry you have to go through this, but, like most bad things, it will pass and you will be much happier two years from now.

Consider yourself the opposite of the Flash Boys Chiselers. They spend their money so they can cheat people a little bit here and a little bit there. That's the way Chiselers work.

You on the other hand have spent $600 of your hard earned cash, not to cheat anybody, but, instead you turned it into an educational opportunity for others. No doubt your loss will help others many times over. I hope that helps.

 

[pb4uski]

Unless there was a good reason for three separate Roths to be set up and two IRAs I would object and make a stink just for the fun of it and to harass them. Slimy bastards!!!

 

[Coolius]

Congrats on the transfer. A good lesson learned, adding to your experience, which will probably benefit your kids, relatives and friends in the long run.

I have been with Vanguard for many years and am satisfied.

 

[Rothman]

Congrats on making the move, don't let this last rip off distract your positive focus on managing your investing. You will make up for this many times over. Have you set your AA and fund choices?