Hi, I am Amazed

[Carol1862]

Actually, I am Carol, but I'm also amazed at the portfolios you have amassed. I stumbled onto this site and have been doing a lot of reading.

Firecalc and Fidelity say we'll be ok, but compared to all of you we're in trouble.

So, give me your opinions.

65& 62
Budget, including taxes and HI. $60-65K
No pensions. SS: DH @FRA 30K, I get half at my FRA or about $12K if I take it a little earlier at 63 (when he starts his)

No debt, own home and car. Will need new car in year or two

What is minimum we should have?

I should preface that we live our lives, eat out, travel a little, nothing extravagant but we don't feel deprived.

If needed to determine your answer, we have 3/4 of our retirement money in 40/60 tIRA. We will convert to Roths up to 15% limit each year. Some in index fund, rest cash reserves.

Thank you

 

[broadway]

$65K - $42K = $23K
Rounding up to $25K and a withdrawal rate of 3.5%, you would need $714,286
Staying at $23K and a withdrawal rate of 3.5%, you would need $657,143

 

[stepford]

The retirement calculators you mentioned can give a much better answer than I can, but a quick guesstimate for how much you need would be somewhere in the:

($65K - $42K)/.4 = $575K to ($65K - $42K)/.025 = $920K assuming a range of 2.5% to 4% annual withdrawal rates. This doesn't leave you with any pad for unexpected expenses (assuming you didn't factor that into your $65K/yr). Given that you might want to take whatever figure you come up with and add a few 10's of percent to it, but this - like the choice of withdrawal rate to use in your model - depends on your personal risk tolerance.

 

[MBAustin]

If you've run the calculators, I'd go with that answer rather than folks' back of the envelope calculations. YMMV

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

If you've run the calculators, I'd go with that answer rather than folks' back of the envelope calculations. YMMV

hahaha. you need 1 dollar and a winning lottery ticket. Other wise i would do what he said

 

[Carol1862]

Yes, those calculators do give me a good sense of security. However, it certainly seems like we are quite behind the typical poster on this site. I do enjoy reading all the posts. Again, highly impressive group here.

 

[broadway]

Yes, those calculators do give me a good sense of security. However, it certainly seems like we are quite behind the typical poster on this site. I do enjoy reading all the posts. Again, highly impressive group here.

Some in the group are younger than you. They need more savings to cover the 10+ years until Medicare.

The calculators tells me I can retire now, but I am very nervous especially about the cost of medical insurance, so I am still looking for work.

 

[evilanne]

Carol1862,

Don't worry about all the others, you are ahead of most of the US population in being debt free. As long as you LBYM, you should be good

How much the average family has saved for retirement at every age

 

[clifp]

At age 65, I think its pretty safe to use the 4% rule or alternatively for every dollar you want to spend above SS you need 25x in retirement savings. I discount stuff in a IRA by 15% to account for taxes, although that's probably too conservative given your moderate income.

So if you can get by on $60K- $42K in SS that is $450K. If the real budget is 65K than $575K. Sure it would be nice to have an extra $100K for things like a nursing home at the end or new car in a couple of years.

This group does tend to be more conservative like using a 3.5% withdrawal rate because most of us plan to or have retired in the 45-60 range and those extra years matter. But odds are both of you won't live until 95 so you probably don't need the money for a full 30 years.

Finally, Evilanne is right, with no debt and paid off home, unless you are currently bringing home $120K a year, spending all of it and living in high cost place you are probably ok just on social security benefits of $42,000/year.

 

[audreyh1]

Yes, those calculators do give me a good sense of security. However, it certainly seems like we are quite behind the typical poster on this site. I do enjoy reading all the posts. Again, highly impressive group here.

Remember that a lot of posters here on the site are trying to retire earlier, well before they draw SS or have Medicare, so that makes a big difference.

I would also be comfortable with higher withdrawal rates at 65.

 

[CaptTom]

...it certainly seems like we are quite behind the typical poster on this site. I do enjoy reading all the posts. Again, highly impressive group here.

I was struck by the same feeling. I largely avoid the threads about the finer details on how best to invest one's vast wealth, and stick with the dryer-sheet-recycling crowd.

The big picture is there's no right or wrong. Only what works for you.

Like you, my first goal was to get debt-free. Then it was a simple question of whether I'd rather live the next xx years getting up and going to w*rk every day, in the hopes of retiring in luxury, or retiring on a shoestring while I still had the health to enjoy those years.

One year in, I don't regret my decision yet. I try not to feel TOO inadequate when I read some of the posts here. I just recall people I've known who chose the other path, and died never having had a chance to enjoy the fine homes and yachts they w*rked so hard for.

But I will agree that we have many very smart people here who have managed to achieve some impressive successes in life. It's hard not to learn something here every day.

 

[pj.mask]

Everyone here talks about dryer sheet recycling.. we did buy some wool balls at Home Goods that supposedly do the same thing for a one time purchase of $13.

That being said, I don't like a lot of consumables because you pay money and pollute the earth to (in the case of dryer sheets) add fragrance to your clothes that probably isn't good for you.

Back to the topic - 4% would be fine at your age range but I think the best defence is to be cognizant of a market downturn and reduce spending where you can during.

I would seriously evaluate if it is better to take your retirement (FRA) early vs spend down your savings! If you are taking a 6% discount for life, maybe better to use savings for that year. You might be able to beat the return but not everyone enjoys working the markets and might prefer a defined benefit plan they dont have to worry about.

 

[Danmar]

Yes, those calculators do give me a good sense of security. However, it certainly seems like we are quite behind the typical poster on this site. I do enjoy reading all the posts. Again, highly impressive group here.

Never really thought that way but yes it is a"self selected" group who are really into FI and ER. This implies some reasonable portfolio sizes? Don't despair this is very far off the norm.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

Take me for instance, I am not too far from 500k, and it's not that much compared to most on here. But this is a good group and if you ask questions you will get answers. When I look back in 2014 I only had maybe 150k. But I sold my condo and saved like crazy at the same time and the numbers are getting bigger. A poster a few years ago said that 500k may not be when compounding takes over, but it gives it a serious tailwind. That is what keeps me motivated.

 

[kcowan]

As a self-selected group, I think we are overly concerned about planning. I update the plan once a year. Never run FIRECALC anymore.

 

[pb4uski]

.....What is minimum we should have? ...

Run your numbers through Firecalc, but I'm thinking around $550,000. After you have your situation input, check out the Investigate tab and the starting portfolio for a given success rate.

 

[steadystate]

Here's an idea. Maybe a couple new forums would be useful ... leanFIRE and fatFIRE, that would cater to the two ends of the ER spectrum. That would give a sense of community for those of relatively limited financial means.

 

[Cassius King]

Comparing oneself to this group is never good. I stopped doing that right after I started here. I have my own plan and life and it is very different than some here.

Just being here and asking questions means you've already done the hard work and are in company with the right crowd.

 

[RE2Boys]

Here's an idea. Maybe a couple new forums would be useful ... leanFIRE and fatFIRE, that would cater to the two ends of the ER spectrum. That would give a sense of community for those of relatively limited financial means.

It would be hard to define, and all relative. I retired with young kids in 2000 with just less than a million but a decent pension that just about covered our day to day expenses.

Fast forward 17 years, a little part time work, always living LBYM (in hindsight, maybe a little too much LBYM), got the boys into colleges. FAFSA says my expected family contributions per year is six figures. Fortunately, the boys selected good state schools so the cost will be about half the EFC and no loans.

Staying invested, avoiding significant financial mistakes, controlling cost and desires.....time and compounding are your best friends.

 

[hesperus]

No matter what your ER status, there's some good advice to be found here from people who know what it takes to get to and maintain FI. I came into a large windfall that allowed me to ER 6 years ago, and was glad I found this forum. Birds of a feather...

 

[jollystomper]

...However, it certainly seems like we are quite behind the typical poster on this site. I do enjoy reading all the posts. Again, highly impressive group here.

Never worry about being "behind" what others say they have. One of the best lessons my Dad gave me (and which I eventually got thru my thick head ) was "don't worry about what others have. Worry about what you need. If you look at someone who has materially more, or someone who has materially less, look at what you can learn from them, and not from either jealously or superiority."

If the calculators give you a good sense of security, that is all that matters as far as I am concerned. You have done very well.

 

[Danmar]

As a self-selected group, I think we are overly concerned about planning. I update the plan once a year. Never run FIRECALC anymore.

Agree. Don't run Firecalc (not much point after 11 years of retirement). Still like to plan and control though. Look at the budget every few days, out current plus two years. Have schedules and flights booked out many months. Just the way we are. Almost a fetish?

 

[steadystate]

Never worry about being "behind" what others say they have. One of the best lessons my Dad gave me (and which I eventually got thru my thick head ) was "don't worry about what others have. Worry about what you need. If you look at someone who has materially more, or someone who has materially less, look at what you can learn from them, and not from either jealously or superiority."

If the calculators give you a good sense of security, that is all that matters as far as I am concerned. You have done very well.

This is absolutely great advice. I only wish I could get it through my thick head as well.

 

[Nightcap]

Here's an idea. Maybe a couple new forums would be useful ... leanFIRE and fatFIRE, that would cater to the two ends of the ER spectrum. That would give a sense of community for those of relatively limited financial means.

As far as I can tell, those fora already exist. leanFIRE is Mr. Money Mustache, fatFIRE is Bogleheads.com.

I just read a question about how to convert $4 million from 401K to Roth on Bogleheads. Dryer sheets are the maid's problem.

On Mr. Money Mustache I found a query on which used inexpensive bicycle someone should look for. Dryer sheets are a flagrant waste of money.

 

[2017ish]

As far as I can tell, those fora already exist. leanFIRE is Mr. Money Mustache, fatFIRE is Bogleheads.com.

I just read a question about how to convert $4 million from 401K to Roth on Bogleheads. Dryer sheets are the maid's problem.

...

An element of truth, but there definitely are many people posting regularly at bogleheads with far less money than that--and/or who have only the big deferred pot and don't have pension/investment income at a level sufficient to raise issues about how to go about converting. MMM undoubtedly has some wealthy posters--but when I used to be active there, I instinctively kept my head very low!