Hi, New & wanting to retire early

Wave

I wanted to apologize for starting to take your thread off topic. Not my place to judge Elliot's Wave Theory without knowing more about. We occasionally get people who come on the forum solely to promote their website or views.
 
Nash, you're speculating, lol, ;). " you sound like the type of person who would do exactly what I mentioned in my first paragraph: buy high, sell low and get wiped out." Has not happened ever since 1974. Shorted NASDAQ in 1999, sold rest of stock. Sold house in 2006 & now rent. No debt. Just cash. P.s. For some reason I feel no emotions about investments, really, it is as it is, I'll just change it.

Add: Have to say it's not easy to do the opposite of very else - sell stocks near peak (DOW's going to 30,000) or sell house when people are snapping up everything with a foundation. I never would chide anyone over losses. I just keep quite. A mentor told me to keep quite. But this is an investor forum not work, etc. A mentor, sold seat on NYSE some 30+ years ago and trades from house S&P mini only! Closes all positions by end of day. Does not trade when market first opens, between 11-2 (lunch), or after 3:30. He's good at it and very wealthy, would not know it. One person told me he 'moves markets', don't think so, he only trades up to 10 S&P mini's. May make 0 one day, ass handed to him (his words) another day and at least 50%+ is right. So, he's not greedy, he'll take guess an average of $500 per day. We had lots of discussion about emotions, no place for them in investing in my opinion.
 
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Seraphim, understand, but no would not do that. EWT is easy in theory and very hard in practice. Alternate counts. Plus, using at least 10 other technical indicators for support.
 
"But as we get older and cannot accept a long-term risk, what to do? We need $ to live. "

There are various strategies, depending on the amount of principle you have compared to how much money you need to live.

Annuities offered steady, guaranteed income - unless the insurance company defaults. You know exactly what your income is going to be year after year. No surprises. It's also permanent. But some offer COLAs, I understand, so your purchasing power remains constant.

Buying long term bonds is another form of fixed income offers the same comfortable knowledge - if you can lock in yields sufficient to cover and future costs of living. Dividends will be the same year after year. No COLA.

Living off dividends of an all equity portfolio is possible, but you never know year to year what your annual income will be, and - historically - 25% will be years of negative returns; so it's necessary to set aside income in the good years to have set aside for the negative years.

I would hazard most people here think in terms of total returns rather than income. Income from bonds and stocks are reinvested, and shares are sold when funds are needed. They establish an allocation of stocks and bonds that suits their tolerance for risk and determine a 'safe' withdrawal amount. I don't know if you're familiar with the old 4% guideline mentioned earlier, but it works on the assumption if you have 60% or greater of your allocation in stocks, taking out 4% of the initial portfolio amount the first year, then increasing that amount by inflation each year offers a 95% chance your portfolio will last 30 years. Take out less initially, and the portfolio lasts longer. If robnplunder's assesment was accurate, with $2M invested and a 30 year life expectancy, you could take out a max of $80k a year with some confidence. Of course, if you only need $60k, only withdraw $60k. When you come into SS, reduce the amount of withdrawals by the amount of SS you receive.

If you haven't already, one of the first things you need to do is figure out a realistic budget for your retirement years, based on the lifestyle you want to live, and determine how much money you'll need each year to live. Then you can come up with a stratagem for investing and withdrawal.

It's also good to consider recent reports which indicate the average retiree will need about $265k (I think that's the right number) to spend on health care before he dies.

Hope this helps and isn't redundant...
 
"A mentor told me to keep quite. But this is an investor forum not work, etc. A mentor, sold seat on NYSE some 30+ years ago and trades from house S&P mini only! Closes all positions by end of day. Does not trade when market first opens, between 11-2 (lunch), or after 3:30. He's good at it and very wealthy, would not know it. One person told me he 'moves markets', don't think so, he only trades up to 10 S&P mini's. May make 0 one day, ass handed to him (his words) another day and at least 50%+ is right. So, he's not greedy, he'll take guess an average of $500 per day. We had lots of discussion about emotions, no place for them in investing in my opinio"

Sounds like he works hard for his money. Too much work for me. If he enjoys it - great! I spend half my time in remote spots with no internet or cell. I'll let the indexes do all the work, thank you very much. Lol. Made about $4k yesterday, look to lose about $10k today, but I'm up about 2.5% YTD. Bond funds actually outperforming international stock funds! This year isn't going to be as lucrative as last.
 
seraphim, thanks for taking the time to write. Read it & will re-read, make good points with flexibility.
 
seraphim, you're right, it's not as easy as watching him, probably can do it in his sleep. If market flat goes golfing. He generally will do 2-3 trades a day and is in/out in less than 5 minutes usually. Say's "there are $100 bills lying on the floor, don't get greedy just pick up the 100's" He is skimming. And now believe he is in his mid-70's, still trades but does not have to. Really nice guy, shares a lot. Just can you do it without freaking out: 12 charts on 3 templates at 2 min. mark & another 12 charts on 3 templates at 30 min. "for long-term view"
 
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Hi Nash*, Thanks once again. Some questions / clarifications: 1) Curious - do you use technical indicators, price/volume/p/e,... to determine when to buy/sell, or buy & hold? 2) Contrarian - never considered I eliminated market risk, but it does. 3) What theory are you referring too? 3) Agree most forecasters are only right some of the time, maybe only x1; 4) liked Nash: "The problem is executing that strategy: you have to be right twice. You have to buy at the low and sell at the high without knowing when the lows and highs are. You could sell everything today and miss out on another 30% gain. You could sit with hundreds of thousands of dollars on the sideline convinced of a market correction that never comes and miss a subsequent 30% gain."

But as we get older and cannot accept a long-term risk, what to do? We need $ to live. Thanks!

1) No. I am aware of PE, Shiller PE, etc., but I do not use them to determine when I buy and sell. I buy periodically - monthly in IRAs, 403(b)s, bi-weekly in taxable account, all set up automatically. I "sell" when my asset allocation dictates so (i.e. stocks go up giving me more than 90% of invested assets in stocks... sell stock funds, buy bond funds to get it back down to 85%, and vice versa). I have no interest in attempting to forecast where I think the market will go based on anything. If there was a method that worked consistently, everyone would use it and it would no longer work.

2) Think you missed the point. By sitting in cash, you maximize inflation risk. If by "contrarian" you mean you sell when others buy, and buy when others are selling, I understand that line of thinking. I do not agree with it, but I understand why you would - going against the mob historically has worked in favor of contrarian investors. I just think it's a pretty arbitrary way to secure your financial future, and if that IS what you mean by contrarian, then it most assuredly does NOT eliminate market risk.

I disagree that you can't accept long-term risk as you get older. That may be the case for you, but it is certainly not the case for everyone. Plenty of older investors are 70% or more in the equity market. And as I said, when you reduce "market risk" by limiting exposure to equities, you are often exposing yourself to more "inflation risk". "Inflation risk" is a bigger long-term problem; "market risk" is more of a worry in the short-term.

You, however, are not "old". You have a 40-year or so retirement horizon. While it's not my place to say, I think you're looking at this whole problem backwards. But your risk tolerance is just that: yours (NOT your financial advisor's!!!!)
 
Nash, thanks. 1) if that IS what you mean by contrarian, then it most assuredly does NOT eliminate market risk. (that's what I meant.)
 
Hi Nash*, Thanks once again. Some questions / clarificati......................................................

But as we get older and cannot accept a long-term risk, what to do? We need $ to live. Thanks!


It seems to me that the biggest long term risk we face as we get older is inflation. We have been lucky with relatively low inflation for quite some time, but I am almost certain that the inflation rate will go higher and be a big issue at some point in our lifetimes. The market goes up and down but over time it has done VERY well.
 
I prefer index-oriented, buy-and-hold equity investing because it recognizes the essential motivation of the stock market:companies making value. Trading acts on that and a bunch of other stuff, mostly incomprehensible to me. Kinda like the difference between "regular" and quantum physics; I get mass, inertia, etc., but strings and dead/alive cats are beyond me :D
 
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2) Think you missed the point. By sitting in cash, you maximize inflation risk. If by "contrarian" you mean you sell when others buy, and buy when others are selling, I understand that line of thinking. I do not agree with it, but I understand why you would - going against the mob historically has worked in favor of contrarian investors. I just think it's a pretty arbitrary way to secure your financial future, and if that IS what you mean by contrarian, then it most assuredly does NOT eliminate market risk.
Is there ANYBODY who is NOT a contrarian? And how do you buy when others are selling and sell when others are buying, aren't there always the same number of buyers as sellers? Only the price changes to where they match. With so many contrarians around I wonder where the people they are contrary to are hiding?
 
You can't simply divide your portfolio size by your life expectancy to get a safe withdrawal rate. :confused:

In my opinion, it depends if your portfolio is growing. If it just sits somewhere not earning any interest, I agree. But if your portfolio at least keeps up with inflation (factoring in any taxes due), I think you can divide your portfolio size by your life expectancy to get an estimate of a safe withdrawal rate.
 
In my opinion, it depends if your portfolio is growing. If it just sits somewhere not earning any interest, I agree. But if your portfolio at least keeps up with inflation (factoring in any taxes due), I think you can divide your portfolio size by your life expectancy to get an estimate of a safe withdrawal rate.
Oh great, now you have put a bunch of academics out of work.
 
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