Hi-New here! Hoping to FIRE in 16 years. How do expenses pre FIRE change over time?

I doubt you’d get those ROIs in our area now. We haven’t found many recently. We bought our properties in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2018 and 2019. Half were ready to rent whereas half were rehabs. In the end we didn’t pay more than 100x monthly rent and we were able to increase rent substantially. Of the others two were gut rehabs and one half had substantial renovation to make it attractive. We financed all properties, but unfortunately I was slow with the last one which increased the interest rate by 1.3%. But still a couple of percent lower than the current rates.

It appears that property prices are still highly valued, probably a reflection of cash buyers.

Planning to keep them for now, the tenants are good, except for one.
 
Wow, you have 5 properties. That's really great you are able to diversify into 5 properties. Takes the burden off 1 property being vacant.

Love your plan, that would be my ideal too.

Have you ever thought about selling the rental properties and investing it all, or has the workload been manageable.
 
We thought about selling properties, but there would be a hefty fee associated with doing so, concluded that there would be less of a tax burden when I don’t have a W2 income. We’ll find if that was a dumb decision or not.
 
I'm in the minority here but everyone is different and YMMV. Kids have blown through my budget. But so what? It means we work one more year. Being prudent in grad school living like that for years meant we can do it now

First off my DK are 10 and 12, and I'm typing this on my phone in the car at therapy for my DK1. Diagnosed with autism at age 11 last year 6th grade. That means we are considering private high school and college. That means we pay for threapy. It means we do a lot of activities and sometimes pay more for stuff to try to help her integrate better. DK 2 has recently as in couple weeks ago suggested to me that she be evaluated for neurodivergent. And this is not a surprise. My BIL when I met was on the spectrum but being dumb and 22 I never considered the what ifs. My diagnosis was $1000 oop.

So budgetwise the kids at blowing my expectations of public schools and being neurotypical and needing no help. I had enough to pay for 4 years in state public. I now have doubled that at like $175k now and we are going to cash flow if needed private high school. Special summer camp was $5k for kids on spectrum oop. No I didn't have to do it, but for us we value helping DK as much as we possibly can. Fwiw you don't know your kid till they are here and growing.

2nd the activities for kids and a family of four are expensive. We just got back from a week in Cancun and it was around $10k. We did a xcaret, xel ha, and cirque du Soleil. You don't have to do anything like this. But we do travel and do stuff a lot. Traveling now as a family runs us around $20-25k a year. You can do cheap trips but if you are going to Europe annually it's not going to be that cheap because airline tickets are pricey and as the kids get older you are stuck to school holidays unless you homeschool.

3rd eating groceries. I don't know how they are doubling the food budget this year. Inflation for sure. Going out to eat is once a week or less and it's $100 bill each time for four.

4th probably no car but never say never. But we've had two rounds of braces with special crossbite headgear. That was $6k each. And yes medically necessary unless we wanted to subject them to jaw altering surgery at age 18ish or headaches and tmj. My aunt and cousin both had to do that because they were too poor for braces for my aunt and didn't know better for my 50 year old cousin. Now we do intervention earlier and hope for the best. I will have a second round of braces for both around $3-5k. Again ymmv.

5th my dk2 has severe allergies necessating special soaps, body washes, medicines and lots of dr visits. 100% cotton clothes and very specific types and fits. Again you don't have to, but she has sensory issues so trying to get her to cooperate is the best I can hope for.

So no my kids have gotten more expensive and blown my budget out of control. But I wouldn't trade it for anything. Neither would my DH. Right now he works like mad to make a moat for our kids just in case. He's not planning on retiring until he's sure in case something should go wrong he can provide. Knowing what we know about them and they are 2e exceptional and both tested 99% and into the gifted programs I don't know how that will all work out.

I don't know if my DK 1 will ever find a partner, something I worry about. I don't know if my dk2 what sort of job she'll get. So dh is working not.just for us but them as well.

So our fire is sort of also inclusive of making sure we can give our kids all the handouts we didn't get. House, car, college free, etc
 
We're 52 & 58 with a bit of time since DD was on the payroll, but my recollection is this.
College we lucked out on with about $3-4k/yr. State school and she got pre-college credits & other perks. Lived at home... Biggie.
Cell, car & insurance we paid for until graduation.
Food / clothing was negligible as she's not a diva.
Raise them without the "follow the herd" mentality and hope all 3 stay out of trouble.
I'm all about gaming until it becomes too much of their time... Thankfully DD didn't have that problem.

3 kids will likely throw curve balls on your life, but it'll be worth it. We're rinse/repeating with 2 GK's now.
 
I'm in the minority here but everyone is different and YMMV. Kids have blown through my budget. But so what? It means we work one more year. Being prudent in grad school living like that for years meant we can do it now

First off my DK are 10 and 12, and I'm typing this on my phone in the car at therapy for my DK1. Diagnosed with autism at age 11 last year 6th grade. That means we are considering private high school and college. That means we pay for threapy. It means we do a lot of activities and sometimes pay more for stuff to try to help her integrate better. DK 2 has recently as in couple weeks ago suggested to me that she be evaluated for neurodivergent. And this is not a surprise. My BIL when I met was on the spectrum but being dumb and 22 I never considered the what ifs. My diagnosis was $1000 oop.

So budgetwise the kids at blowing my expectations of public schools and being neurotypical and needing no help. I had enough to pay for 4 years in state public. I now have doubled that at like $175k now and we are going to cash flow if needed private high school. Special summer camp was $5k for kids on spectrum oop. No I didn't have to do it, but for us we value helping DK as much as we possibly can. Fwiw you don't know your kid till they are here and growing.

2nd the activities for kids and a family of four are expensive. We just got back from a week in Cancun and it was around $10k. We did a xcaret, xel ha, and cirque du Soleil. You don't have to do anything like this. But we do travel and do stuff a lot. Traveling now as a family runs us around $20-25k a year. You can do cheap trips but if you are going to Europe annually it's not going to be that cheap because airline tickets are pricey and as the kids get older you are stuck to school holidays unless you homeschool.

3rd eating groceries. I don't know how they are doubling the food budget this year. Inflation for sure. Going out to eat is once a week or less and it's $100 bill each time for four.

4th probably no car but never say never. But we've had two rounds of braces with special crossbite headgear. That was $6k each. And yes medically necessary unless we wanted to subject them to jaw altering surgery at age 18ish or headaches and tmj. My aunt and cousin both had to do that because they were too poor for braces for my aunt and didn't know better for my 50 year old cousin. Now we do intervention earlier and hope for the best. I will have a second round of braces for both around $3-5k. Again ymmv.

5th my dk2 has severe allergies necessating special soaps, body washes, medicines and lots of dr visits. 100% cotton clothes and very specific types and fits. Again you don't have to, but she has sensory issues so trying to get her to cooperate is the best I can hope for.

So no my kids have gotten more expensive and blown my budget out of control. But I wouldn't trade it for anything. Neither would my DH. Right now he works like mad to make a moat for our kids just in case. He's not planning on retiring until he's sure in case something should go wrong he can provide. Knowing what we know about them and they are 2e exceptional and both tested 99% and into the gifted programs I don't know how that will all work out.

I don't know if my DK 1 will ever find a partner, something I worry about. I don't know if my dk2 what sort of job she'll get. So dh is working not.just for us but them as well.

So our fire is sort of also inclusive of making sure we can give our kids all the handouts we didn't get. House, car, college free, etc

Life throws you curveballs, man plans, and God laughs. Sorry to hear about your DK's health issues, that is heartbreaking when you find out about DK's health issues.

I hear what you are saying, you can plan as much as you want, and things will happen. When I joined the forum, we had three kids, now we have four. Costs were pretty manageable when the kids were young, and DW was home. Now with kids in school sports and traveling is back on the table costs are starting to take off. As much as we let them, I suppose.

With my ER target being back at 55, my models with 7% returns we can easily spend a lot more than we do. We are currently putting away between 5 and 10% of our investment account balance annually, the last couple of years have been a little out of whack with property renovations, so I haven't tracked our budget as closely as I used to. I believe our spend the last two years has increased by about 20%, mainly due to investments in gear to allow us experiences any minimize SAD issues due to my wife's medication.
 
2022 Annual Update - 7 years to go

My wife is still cancer free (YAY!) but is still hating her hormone blocking medication... Depression is coming and going and makes things difficult for the whole family.
Had some heart issues myself, but specialists deemed it caused by a virus, and it disappeared after a few days all by itself (tachycardia, PVC etc.)

Secondarily on the financial front, a pretty brutal year:

~$686k Roth IRA -$150k includes 9% of salary contribution
~$377k tIRA -$96k
~$281k 401k -19k includes 11% of salary contribution & match
~$52k ESPP +$5k includes 10% contribution and withdrawal of $5k
~$197k brokerage +188k from refi and net rents after renovations complete
~$45k cash +21k
~$310k home equity +$101k
~$661k rental equity -$137k financed last property
~$34k HSA -$12k on PPO plan this year

Total Spend: Too much, need to figure this out...

Net rental income $47k -$17k (new mortgage payment) (after allocating for future repairs and capex)

Invested assets $1.6M -$70k

Net worth $2.59M -$60k including real estate.

25% Rental Equity (43% property equity-down due to financing)
26% traditional IRA+401k
27% Roth
12% Home Equity
9% ESPP and joint brokerage
1% Cash

Starting to boost taxable brokerage account with proceeds from refinancing and rental income. Hoping to get to a 33%/33%/33% distribution between Roth IRA/tIRA/brokerage by the time I RE.

FI now and planned RE of 3/31/2030
 
Net worth $2.59M -$60k including real estate.

Glad to hear DW is still cancer free! Time > $$$

For NW only being down 60k you aren't doing too bad. I am nowhere near your NW and I was down quite a bit more than you in 2022.

That equity is really building up.
 
2023 Annual Update - 6 years to go

A super year on the financial front and nothing new on the health front (which is both good and bad).

~$901k Roth IRA +$215k includes 9% of salary contribution
~$377k tIRA +$95k
~$383k 401k +102k includes 11% of salary contribution & match
~$72k ESPP +$20k includes 10% contribution and withdrawal of $9k
~$222k brokerage +25k includes withdrawal of $25k for back door Roth's for 2022 and 2023 for us and $4k contribution to the account
~$48k cash +3k
~$319k home RE +$9k
~$730k rental RE+$69k rent increases
~$41k HSA +$7k on PPO plan this year

Total Spend: Still a lot, but with plan to retire in six years we can afford to loosen the purse strings a bit.

Net rental income $52k +$5k (new mortgage payment) (after allocating for future repairs and capex)

Invested assets $2.08M +$480k, +30%
Net worth $3.0M +$440k including real estate.

23% Rental Equity (43% property equity-down due to financing)
27% traditional IRA+401k
29% Roth
10% Home Equity
10% ESPP and joint brokerage
1% Cash

Hoping to get to a 33%/33%/33% distribution between Roth IRA/tIRA/brokerage by the time I RE.

FI now and planned RE of 3/31/2030
 
Last edited:
We are both approx 70. Retired 12/13 years. Empty nest prior to retirement.

While everyone's life style is different our spending has changed since retiring.

First off our spend on clothing is substantially less than pre retirement. Just picked up another pair of Costco Kirkland jeans for $15. Slightly less expensive than better quality suits, shirts, shoes etc during my working life.

I do not know if our grocery spend is up or down. It is certainly different, much healthier. It is what it is.

Same for automobile expenses. Especially when we dropped down to one vehicle. And that one vehicle can be parked by as much as 4-5 months cumulative per year. No desire to have the latest and greatest model of vehicle.

Restaurant/dining out down considerably. We travel frequently so eating out at home is limited to things we cannot or do not want to make at home. Mostly Thai and Vietnamese.

Living expenses are down. Downsized from 3700 s feet to 1450. Not because of cost. It was all about convenience and lifestyle.

Travel is a significant jump depending on where/when. Dental is up. The latter is lumpy. Implants a few years ago, crowns, etc for both of us this month. Medical is negligible for us other than $10K several years ago for eyes.
 
Great update, NgineER
Can relate to the "loosen the purse strings a bit" as we are finding ourselves in the same state of mind recently, and as a results started to do more travel and more fun things while we are still on the last stretch to FIRE. We can always earn more money but money can buy us additional time.
 
2023 Annual Update - 6 years to go

Oops - missed adding the tIRA growth to the 2022 tIRA number. A super year on the financial front and nothing new on the health front (which is both good and bad).

~$901k Roth IRA +$215k includes 9% of salary contribution
~$472k tIRA +$95k
~$383k 401k +102k includes 11% of salary contribution & match
~$72k ESPP +$20k includes 10% contribution and withdrawal of $9k
~$222k brokerage +25k includes withdrawal of $25k for back door Roth's for 2022 and 2023 for us and $4k contribution to the account
~$48k cash +3k
~$319k home RE +$9k
~$730k rental RE+$69k rent increases
~$41k HSA +$7k on PPO plan this year

Total Spend: Still a lot, but with plan to retire in six years we can afford to loosen the purse strings a bit.

Net rental income $52k +$5k (new mortgage payment) (after allocating for future repairs and capex)

Invested assets $2.08M +$480k, +30%
Net worth $3.0M +$440k including real estate.

23% Rental Equity (43% property equity-down due to financing)
27% traditional IRA+401k
29% Roth
10% Home Equity
10% ESPP and joint brokerage
1% Cash

Hoping to get to a 33%/33%/33% distribution between Roth IRA/tIRA/brokerage by the time I RE.

FI now and planned RE of 3/31/2030
 
I'm really impressed with your progress.

Side note, so to speak: I personally don't like the rental business. I did it for several years by "accident" - long story. I was no good at valuing the rent nor asking our tenants for more money. I doubt we made a dime, but we then lived in the property eventually, which was our original goal. The "rental" was just a holding action. Once our "two little old ladies" moved out, we got a rental agent (cost us 10%) but she doubled the rent, so you can tell we knew nothing nor could we be the "mean old landlord!" Heh, heh, but our rental agent could be!

In any case, I'm happy that your DW's health has been stable. May it remain so!

Looking forward to your next update. Keep up the good w*rk.
 
Insurance becomes a major expense even if you are healthy.
 
Congratulations on your progress NgineEr. It's crazy, how we think about numbers at the beginning of the journey a decade ago. Almost every underestimates the expenses / lifestyle creep over the long run during accumulation phase. It is also common to underestimate our projected growth of the portfolios. Good to be in this boat vs other scenarios. 6 years to go must feel good.
 
Back
Top Bottom