hope i can

[daylatedollarshort]

I complained a lot at my previous job, mostly to HR, and that made the situation worse.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So don't be a whiner at this job. Few IT managers want to keep an employee around who is constantly running to HR. They want people who are good problem solvers, both technically and interpersonally.

Learn the skills to deal with Jim or strike out on your own. Post your skills on eLance. Look for better paying contract work. Make some sites to sell on flippa. Learn how to develop smart phone apps and collect royalty income. Become a Wordpress expert and set up blogs for small businesses. Do volunteer work in social media and develop a portfolio to use for paid work.

You have endless options.

 

[MichaelB]

This is getting ridiculous.

Flyaway, welcome to the forum. Don't forget one needs thick skin when asking for advice on a forum or social network. Members here are a friendly bunch, we do our best to keep a civil tone and mean well, even if the feedback does on occasion seem a bit harsh.

 

[fh2000]

OP,

I feel your pain. I have seen many "Jim's" during my career. Instead of resenting them, try to look at it this way: these folks are on a faster trajectory to higher positions. Soon, they will be promoted, or move on to other positions. For a near retiree such as myself, maintaining heads-down, low profile is what I plan to do for the remaining time before I RE.

Good luck.

 

[MBAustin]

To the OP: One of the wonderful things about this forum is that you can safely get lots of different perspectives - some will be useful, and others not worth the electrons on your screen. But having an open mind and not just looking for confirmation about what you have already decided goes a long way.

Having ER'd from 31+ years in IT, mostly in management, I've worked with a lot of Jims and a lot of folks like you (both men and women). Some of the suggestions that have been made in this thread I have found to be very useful over the years. Rather than resigning yourself to be miserable for a year or more until you move on, why not at least try some of them?

Also, part-time contract work doesn't generally just land in your lap (exception being if your current employer wants to keep you on part-time), so if you want to work 1/2 time, you need to plan to spend at least 10-20% of your time on marketing, sales, bookkeeping, continuing education, etc.

There are lots of good books out there about becoming an independent or freelancer, as well as planning for retirement. I also second the comment above about expense tracking, and what options you have if the contract work doesn't come in when you expect it.

All the best!

 

[flyaway]

My apologies if my comments offended you. I am a woman who has always stood up for herself and calls a spade a spade. Please feel free to put me on your ignore list. But please do not ignore the good advice you are getting on this thread.

You thought I had a self esteem problem because an "I" wasn't capitalized!

What kind of woman you are has nothing to do with me. Don't expect everyone to be just like you.

 

[Gumby]

I suspect we could all stand to take a deep breath right about now.

 

[flyaway]

OP,

I feel your pain. I have seen many "Jim's" during my career. Instead of resenting them, try to look at it this way: these folks are on a faster trajectory to higher positions. Soon, they will be promoted, or move on to other positions. For a near retiree such as myself, maintaining heads-down, low profile is what I plan to do for the remaining time before I RE.

Good luck.

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Low profile, avoid conflict, do my work, ignore Jim as much as possible.

And maybe after this project is done I won't have to work with him anymore.

I have already learned never to ask his advice. He interprets that as a helpless old lady begging for help.

 

[flyaway]

To the OP: One of the wonderful things about this forum is that you can safely get lots of different perspectives - some will be useful, and others not worth the electrons on your screen. But having an open mind and not just looking for confirmation about what you have already decided goes a long way.

Having ER'd from 31+ years in IT, mostly in management, I've worked with a lot of Jims and a lot of folks like you (both men and women). Some of the suggestions that have been made in this thread I have found to be very useful over the years. Rather than resigning yourself to be miserable for a year or more until you move on, why not at least try some of them?

Also, part-time contract work doesn't generally just land in your lap (exception being if your current employer wants to keep you on part-time), so if you want to work 1/2 time, you need to plan to spend at least 10-20% of your time on marketing, sales, bookkeeping, continuing education, etc.

There are lots of good books out there about becoming an independent or freelancer, as well as planning for retirement. I also second the comment above about expense tracking, and what options you have if the contract work doesn't come in when you expect it.

All the best!

I do not want to be a freelancer until I have a base income of at least $20k or $30k. That would pay for basic expenses, so I wouldn't have to worry about constantly having enough work (did that, no desire to do it again).

 

[Meadbh]

What kind of woman you are has nothing to do with me. Don't expect everyone to be just like you.

I don't expect anyone to be just like me. We are all unique and must find our own ways of dealing with the world. Good luck to you.

 

[Cassie]

I thought Meadbh was trying to be helpful. Wishing you a better work situation in the days ahead flyaway.


Cheers, Cassie

 

[Cassie]

95 days until retirement, I'm finding these threads are assisting me in winding down my 38 year career. Thank you OP for sharing/posting.

 

[Delaney]

..... Low profile, avoid conflict, do my work, ignore Jim as much as possible.

And maybe after this project is done I won't have to work with him anymore.

I have already learned never to ask his advice. He interprets that as a helpless old lady begging for help.

As a woman who worked in IT, I can just imagine what you are going through having to deal with the likes of Jim---believe me, I know the type. I think you have the right plan. You are in the home stretch, you only have a year or so left.

I think it will be a nice, fun distraction to focus on planning for retirement. I would do all the math. I know I had a spreadsheet that calculated all the monies I had coming to me based on how long I lasted. It showed me that I was OK if I left right away, but that also putting up with everything for x months would net me a certain amount.

I think avoiding Jim is a good plan. If I were you, I would HATE interaccting with Jim--especially if he is trying to give you assignments. Can you choose to interpret his assignments as requests for help from you? Pretend that he must not know how to do those tasks---to amuse yourself if nothing else. I guess I'd just do what I could to discourage Jim. Also, it sound like me might be taking credit for your work and I would hate that too.

Since you are not trying to be promoted, as long as you do your job, I don't think you have much at risk. Even if they wanted you to leave, you'd be ok and maybe you'd get severence or unemployment.

Mostly I just wanted to offer you support. I think you'll LOVE retirement and I think you are right that you won't want to do consulting that puts you back into the crazy IT world plus, like a lot of us, I think you'll wonder how you ever found the time to work.

 

[slowsaver]

But now I have a very young co-worker who acts like he's my boss. He knows everything, even when he doesn't. It reminds me of my previous manager and I hate it.

You could try becoming a manager -- maybe manage the team you're part of. Then give those kids bad reviews for not being "team players."

But seriously, lots of engineers become engineering managers in the later part of their career.

 

[steelyman]

What is getting ridiculous?

The job or the feedback people are trying to give?

 

[rodi]

flyaway -
I'm another woman who works in the technical field. (engineer). The world is full of Jim's. Guys who are good, but inexperienced... but don't recognize they might have something to learn from more experienced coworkers. They are a PITA. I try to avoid them, or be helpful to them - depending on their jerk-factor.

The advice from Delaney was spot on. Put together a spreadsheet and figure out exactly what you currently spend. Not ball parks, but actuals.
Then add in things that are covered by your employer (health insurance, dental insurance, etc.)
Subtract out things you won't be spending (401k contributions, etc.)

That's your budget.

Play around with social security. Play around with what you'd need to bring in from contract work or a part time gig. Figure out a plan b if you don't get web-development contract work... Are you adverse to part time work in another field. (A friend took a job at a local grocery store bakery for 12 hrs/week - the bonus was it got her health benefits.)

Since you're a tech type person - do the math. If the numbers work - AWESOME... fly away from the job. If they don't... find a way to ignore or deal with Jim... for at least another year or two.

Doing the math means looking at annuities - and whether they make sense in our current rate environment... IMO - they're probably not going to work as you plan.

Good luck to you.

 

[meekie]

I think asking your management for clarification would be a good idea. Maybe they do want Jim to be in charge of the project that you're working on, but maybe they don't. They need to either let you know if it's ok for him to micromanage you, or you need to know if you can tell him to leave you alone.

I get pushed around a lot at work being a female in IT, but I've learned to pick my battles. If I feel strongly about something, I make sure that people are listening to me.

You should definitely get your budget in order, and start looking at web-development contract work. Maybe you can find something that's full time for a year, then goes part time. It might even pay more than you're making now.

 

[jclarksnakes]

I thought Meadbh was trying to be helpful. Wishing you a better work situation in the days ahead flyaway.


Cheers, Cassie

+1

 

[flyaway]

I think avoiding Jim is a good plan. If I were you, I would HATE interaccting with Jim--especially if he is trying to give you assignments. Can you choose to interpret his assignments as requests for help from you? Pretend that he must not know how to do those tasks---to amuse yourself if nothing else. I guess I'd just do what I could to discourage Jim. Also, it sound like me might be taking credit for your work and I would hate that too.

He didn't give me assignments, just specified how certain things should be done. He decided on a library we would use, but that was approved by the lead developer. I didn't mind.

There were times when Jim acted very forceful about how to do things. But other times, he leaves me alone or is not obnoxious.

Sometimes he talks very loud and fast, as if trying to confuse me and make me feel old and stupid. I don't think he does it on purpose. I think I can usually deal with it. For example one time I said "I don't remember the exact line of code you are referring to, I will have to look at it again."

I mean, he wouldn't remember an exact line of code either. It's just part of the IT act.

My first year at this job was so peaceful, but now I see there will be some challenges. But at least I only really need one more year.

I don't think I can simply stop working altogether in a year, but I could stop saving for retirement, so I could have a much lower income.

 

[flyaway]

What is getting ridiculous?

The job or the feedback people are trying to give?

Saying I must have low self esteem because "I" wasn't capitalized somewhere in my post.

 

[Gumby]

What happened to that deep breath? Sometimes it's best for us to forgive (or ignore) each other and move on. We're all here to have fun.

 

[steelyman]

The picture won't look the same after that last year. Then you get to think about other stuff. It does happen.

 

[Theseus]

He didn't give me assignments, just specified how certain things should be done. [Managers have the authority to specify how things must be done, I'd call that a suggestion - to Jim's face would be best, as in "Thank you for the suggestion Jim, I'll take that into consideration."]

There were times when Jim acted very forceful about how to do things. But other times, he leaves me alone or is not obnoxious. [My take on those sorts of obnoxious ones is they do it just to test the waters, and in no one calls them on it they do it on and on just begging to get some attention like a spoiled child. When he does it, he needs to be told to go to the corner and take a time out. I'm sure the puzzled look on his face would be priceless!]

Sometimes he talks very loud and fast, as if trying to confuse me and make me feel old and stupid. I don't think he does it on purpose. I think I can usually deal with it. For example one time I said "I don't remember the exact line of code you are referring to, I will have to look at it again."

I mean, he wouldn't remember an exact line of code either. It's just part of the IT act.

My first year at this job was so peaceful, but now I see there will be some challenges. But at least I only really need one more year.

I don't think I can simply stop working altogether in a year, but I could stop saving for retirement, so I could have a much lower income. [Do not let this twerp make you settle for less of a retirement than you deserve.]

In the engineering / technical field I've seen enough of this too, and it really boils down to the young guns showing some respect for their more experienced peers. Roll-my-eyes moments have been more likely to happen when dealing with the non-technical folks we interact with every day though, and my pride was always a tad higher when I would outlast the "rising stars" who sought to chew me up like some sort of non-essential loafer because I simply refused to concede to their ridiculous demands.

The real PITA's were ones who rose to power by being azzholes and alienating everybody. Eventually they get promoted to the point they are in over their heads, now I just like hanging on OMY to watch them suffer in misery. And oh, they've been coached by HR to stop being so antagonistic, and now struggle with having to deal with people in a more civil manner. Life has great rewards for the perseverant.

So, #1 - look out for number 1, yourself.
#2 - don't let Jim get to you, he will eventually get what he deserves.
And #3 - when Jim is acting towards you in a way that you feel is disrespectful, call him out on it. Unless you do, he will keep on doing it. If he still persists after you let him know, then it is time to speak with a manager about those documented incidents.

 

[flyaway]

"when Jim is acting towards you in a way that you feel is disrespectful, call him out on it. Unless you do, he will keep on doing it. If he still persists after you let him know, then it is time to speak with a manager about those documented incidents."

I don't want to turn this into a negative downward spiral of antagonism. When Jim says something I agree with, I make sure to say that I agree. He is smart, at least with IT stuff.

When he gets really pushy and obnoxious, then I think it is better to ignore it.

My best defense is probably trying to know what I am doing and saying, and not blurt out anything stupid. At least not too often.

Fortunately I have a lot of experience, which almost makes up for my lack of enthusiasm.

 

[courtjustshan]

Flyaway, I would like to thank you for being so open. I admire your courage actually. I was a Director in IT for a MegaCorp for nearly 20 years and decided to leave this year and take a lower paying job with an nonprofit for similar reasons. The IT world has become very caustic and globalization combined with the influx of millenials has created a great deal of conflict and stress in the workplace. Age discrimination is a very real thing in IT. Here is what I recommend as what you can do to help yourself.

1. HR is almost always useless: Complaining to HR almost never does anything except make the situation worse. The vast majority of these departments are more interested in their own agendas than they are in protecting people.
2. Keep a daily journal of activity: The most important thing you can do is to document all of the offhanded comments, overheard conversations and situational discrimination. I can promise you that when you build a detailed journal of that sort of activity over a several months and years, that this really help protect you. There is not a legal department in any MegaCorp that is going to dispute a long and accurately documented series of incidents and issues. I always found that writing it down is somewhat theraputic as well. An example of an entry:

October 4th 2013: Jim made a comment that people over 40 really don't understand modern IT and the manager agreed with him.

3. You also want to document the actions that you take. I would counsel you to speak your peace, but do it in a non-emotional fashion and stick to the facts. For example, you can easily state that you don't appreciate the comment and just walk away.

4. Save any electronic proof: Important to file away emails in your journal as corroborating proof. Email is nearly always the death nail for people that behave this way.

5. The last option is the "Concern Line" if your company has one. Generally, the internal audit group is required to follow up on each complaint made to the concern line and it is a way to get around the HR people. I would caution against this option until you have a substantial journal.

I believe if you follow a plan like this and turn all of the negativity into a project of sorts, I think you might be surprised at what happens.

I wish you well and completely understand how you feel.

 

[flyaway]

Thank you courtjustshan. I'm glad you affirmed that what I am talking about is very real, not just my imagination or paranoia. I left a job a year ago, where I had been for 11 years, because of this. In that case, it was my manager who was out to get me. I complained to HR many times, and I think they told my manager and it got much worse.

My current job was very peaceful until recently, when I started having to coordinate with Jim. He is a nice guy and very smart and hard-working. But he can get into a crazed state, where he orders me around. When in that state, he thinks he knows everything and I don't know anything. It is extremely disrespectful and condescending and rude.

I have known other guys exactly like him. No matter what you do, they will tell you it's wrong and you should do it their way instead. They don't realize there are many ways of doing things.

The managers at this job are quiet and not arrogant. But unfortunately they seem to like and value Jim. They don't seem to notice anything wrong with the way he talks to me.

I can't complain about him, because they would probably take his side. But I guess I should start documenting, as you said, just in case.

I really want to get out of IT asap. At least I want to get out of being a FTE. I really can't stand the stress any more. I like the work, but there are too many Jims.