I can retire---and my doctor can't?!?

[Martha]

SG, why not give a gift to the clinic?

I know a Korean woman who was also born into wealth. She is a surgeon. Some people actually work because they want to.

[2B]

Another approach is to just come right out and tell her you appreciate her not charging you but you can afford to pay. There's no reason to tell her the millionaire stuff. Since you probably look like a destitute bum to her anyway, that would only make her think you have dementia.

If she still won't charge you, Martha's idea is good except you would then have the added problem of figuring out what they wanted or needed every visit. If it bothers you that you're getting something for nothing, donate the fee to a charity in either her name or yours.

[DW]

I've never really undestood the debt-ridden, unable-to-retire M.D. syndrome. I don't think it's just an issue of starting late and having school expenses. I put myself through college, then grad school, and got a "real" job on a university faculty at age 29. I'm certainly paid much less than an M.D., but I'm going to be FIREd by age 58-59 with an SWR above my current salary. No magic - just did what most of you folks did: lived below my means and saved. My guess is that the issue with M.D.s has a lot to do with spending to maintain a high lifestyle instead of saving.

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw I've never really undestood the debt-ridden, unable-to-retire M.D. syndrome. ...My guess is that the issue with M.D.s has a lot to do with spending to maintain a high lifestyle instead of saving.

You are right about much of this. The only consistent difference is that after putting one's self through school and residency, physicians often have 100K to 200K of debt and are 30-33 years old. Freedom from debt and thus ability to save comes in the early 40s.

Not an impossible situation given the promise of large income, but it does require enlightenment at a fairly young age. In that regard, at least, it is their problem from that moment on. Note, too, that income can vary 300% from specialty to specialty (primary care [internal medicine, pediatrics, etc.] at the low end, and procedural subpecialties [gastroenterology, ophthalmology, surgery, radiology, etc.] at the high end.

For me, I saw the light at around age 40 (not coincidentally the same age I got my debts paid off). I was able to do OK from then on, but had I started 15 years earlier, my current picture -- satisfactory as it is -- would look a lot brighter.

So, it's true that there is nothing unique or special about medicine as a FIRE profession except that the high stakes years (read the early years) are shot.

[DW]

Quote:

The only consistent difference is that after putting one's self through school and residency, physicians often have 100K to 200K of debt and are 30-33 years old. Freedom from debt and thus ability to save comes in the early 40s.

Yep...that loss of 10+ years to save could make a big difference.

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2B sgeeeeeeeeee, Maybe she's not telling you the whole truth.* I'll bet she always wears rubber gloves when she's around you.* It's possible she doesn't want to to leave anything behind that you've touched -- even money.

I think you might be right. I am repulsive.

[sgeeeee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martha SG, why not give a gift to the clinic?

That's a good idea. DW and I have started talking about this recently and are looking for the best way to do it.

In addition to being a good doctor, we have great respect for what this woman is trying to do. :

[gtmeouttahere]

Why not give her a gift certificate, in the amount of the money owed, to a spa or some other place she could enjoy and relax after a tough work week.

You should just say on the certificate that you are "trying to keep her healthy so she can continue to keep you healthy in the future." "Thanks so much for your continuous and undying care." Or something to that effect.

[roadkill]

Interesting article..........



http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...eid=mktw&dist=

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill Interesting article..........

Ouch. That's 10% absolute reduction in income over 8 years, even worse in real terms.

When I left private practice to return to an academic career many years ago, my colleagues were pretty skeptical about the financial penalty I would pay for my decision.

I did it for personal reasons and career satisfaction, but it turned out to be one of the best career decisions I made. Other than a flat year here and there, my income has more than kept up with COL, I have a 403b with employer contributions, a 457, and paid malpractice, health, life, etc. like any corporate wonk. I get to practice, teach, and do research; now that I'm old, I also get to be the boss (at least that's what I'm told). Lastly, I will get to retire a little early.

Many of my former colleagues who didn't adapt are cynical, making less than I, and have limited retirement savings or options. We were all in primary care which, in the 70s, seemed a fascinating, noble, and challenging specialty.

Dodged a big bullet.

[justin]

Went to the doc's office yesterday and saw a magazine in the waiting room - Medical Economics or something.

When I flipped through it, I was surprised to see an article on finances. Very basic stuff like spend less than you make. Have a rainy day fund. Set up 401k's or IRA's (and participate!). Don't get tricked by the "latest and greatest" investments opportunities out there.

[roadkill]

Rich.....

NPR did a story this morning regarding a primary care doc in DC. Although she loved the work, her net income dropped to $54K per year due to increased office overhead and reduced insurance payments.* She closed her practice and took a $125K salaried job with Georgetown medical center.........as yogi might say..."the future ain't what it used to be"......

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill NPR did a story this morning regarding a primary care doc in DC. Although she loved the work, her net income dropped to $54K per year due to increased office overhead and reduced insurance payments. She closed her practice and took a $125K salaried job with Georgetown medical center.........as yogi might say..."the future ain't what it used to be"......

Pains me to hear stories like this because on a numeric basis, primary care docs (internists, family practitioners, pediatricians) are probably the most important hinge on the system.

Health care in the good ole US of A is in a painful stage of transition.

[xmanz3]

I live in Atlanta (Brookhaven). In which part of Atlanta do you live? I have seeing how real estate prices have increased tremendously in my area. I was lucky enough to purchase a townhome $20k less from what they are selling now.

[Dawg52]

Here's another story of a doctor unable to retire early.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/money...0770/index.htm

[Sarah in SC]

And also from Money Magazine, the words we've been waiting to hear all along....Why men don't know jack about retirement by Walter Updegrave
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/money...0769/index.htm

Sarah

[roadkill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOG51 Here's another story of a doctor unable to retire early. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/money...0770/index.htm

Well, I don't know what level of income a typical pulmonologist generates, but this guy is 57 and only has $336,000 in financial assets?* geeez..................

[Dawg52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclesters And also from Money Magazine, the words we've been waiting to hear all along....Why men don't know jack about retirement by Walter Updegrave http://money.cnn.com/magazines/money...0769/index.htm Sarah

I saw that one too but didn't feel as compelled to share it.*

[spideyrdpd]

I dont know why you single out doctors. Dont they say most americans are one paycheck away from being bankruptcy.
As they say its not what you make its how much you keep
to add in another cliche
Its also a lot easier said then done

[sailaway]

As a physician that has retired early at 55, I actually agree with most everything that has been stated. Interesting and few other forums of people would understand what this one knows. My wife and I were lucky enough to recognize early on the importance of saving rather than spending but it was hard just as it has been for everyone on this board.

My fellow physicians no longer laugh at me for driving that old old pickup. But I practiced in a small town where it was not important to keep up with Dr. Jones.

"I love my truck"

Sailaway